Is there an answer for perfect light cycle from the start to the end?

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ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Blossom21 said:
I tried to talk about this topic with people who don't just give just their own preference and leave, BUT actual done testing with data. But never got real results, just people talking how their preference is the best :D

One thing i'm sure is that the bigger cannabis growers (at least) have tested this to maximize their grow with automacially adjusting leds (and adjusting everyhing to pretty much perfection). But would they wanna share their results to everyone? I'm pretty sure not. Unless someone in the industry leaks it.

Of course this could be tested in multiple identical grow rooms, but that would require time, money and patience that i know most people wouldn't wanna do because their own preference works from the typical 18/24-24h for photoperios and autos, then at the veg bring down their lights for photoperiods at least.

I've alwatys grown with the old 18/6 cycle photoperiods and they turn fine, but is there a faster method proven? Would giving more light in any stage give bigger results? So the answer for this would be nice to be for photoperiods, i don't can about autos.
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I commented in your other thread also. A lot of chaff in that thread.

I think you are asking a fair question. The industry however tends to look at it the other way...what is the MINIMUM DLI th they need to thrive? They take into account cost so efficiency becomes critical in making a profit. So that works against your goal of discovering the ideal maximum.

In every facet they look to cut corners or in more fair terminology minimize costs. As I mentioned in the other thread they often dry for 4 or 5 days and jar it up! I know several folks who have worked in the drying rooms and explained this to me. It "works".

So your question, I think, is:
If you can grow with expert knowledge and experience,
And you have unlimited resources,
What is the ideal amount of light and what light interval works best in veg and flower?

Is really hard to figure, because formalized studies dont usually allow for all these things. (Imo)

Each component has been studied...i.e
Change one variable at a time in order to insure the scientific process...but a study combining ALL elements would be very pricey and show results for that top 1% of growers...and likely not apply to me or most growers very well.
 
G

GrodanLightfoot

Well-Known Member
Horselover fat said:
No. Not known. Depends.


Maybe you get more strech if you do nights. Maybe. Is it good or bad? Well, me, I want as little strech as possible. Someone else might not feel my style is optimal. So how do we decide which one is optimal? We don't. That's how.

I do 24/7. Works fine. I see no reason to switch, but I have done 18/6 and 20/4, which worked just fine too. I doubt there is a huge difference if DLI is matched.

I did find this bit, but is it a definitive answer? Who knows.

“A GW Pharmaceuticals study compared the growth rates of eight varieties in day length of 18 and 24h. After three weeks the plant in the 18h day length were shorter and lighter than those in the 24h day length. …..
To produce a similar mass of foliage to the plants that underwent 24hr day length for 21 day, the plants in the 18h group required 28 days, at which point the light energy emitted was the same for both plants, thus saving no electricity. ‘ –Handbook of Cannabis – Oxford Press, pg. 75"

edit: they obviously didn't match dli
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Is there a reason they only weighed foliage. Are they racist against roots? Big roots on small plants will yield massive buds of amazing quality.

Photosynthate partitioning: Photosynthates can reportedly travel 8-10 feet per hour in a healthy plant. This means one hour of darkness will support good root growth in a full grown healthy plant. The problem is, anyone who studies this will do so with a sick plant, overloaded on calcium and nitrogen. And people will run with the results. Bigger stalks with zero roots and zero health, sign me up.
 
Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Horselover fat said:
No. Not known. Depends.

Maybe you get more strech if you do nights. Maybe. Is it good or bad? Well, me, I want as little strech as possible. Someone else might not feel my style is optimal. So how do we decide which one is optimal? We don't. That's how.
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You know what i realize instantly reading your post, that's YOUR own preference of growing, not actual proven data.

Want me to shorten my question to as short as possible? What light conditions give the most massive growth aka results that has data behind it?

And if we ignore now all the tested techniques and conditions for good growth, what about lights and their cycles? That was the topic i was looking to get answers to. If i don't get answers to it, that's perfectly OK, but i think this is the next big thing with growing bigger and faster when other techiniques have been pretty much mastered. Have we publicly studied how light and their cycles affect the plants from the start to the end? Is there results with data? Have anyone pro leaked anything? That's what i'm after! Nature has done it's thing forever and given the plants the light to grow so massive plants, but now i wanna dig deeper for testing how much we can push light (pref without extra CO2)

As you said at the start, "not known, depends". That's why i mentioned the biggest growers with their whole lifetime of experience who have tested this stuff in multiple conditions and probably found near the perfect formula to grow cannabis. That testing would be easy for them in test rooms and study how cannabis grows in different conditions for example how root mass developes and how light cycles affect that growth etc.

1. The growings conditions have to be pretty damn good, but plants are somewhat forgiving, so they don't have to be perfect. I have pretty damn good setup, that just lacks the data for real tested light cycles. I could easily change the cycles just by opening my tent to what i want if that data was available, every day, to even mimic the sun if that would give optimal results, lmao.

And we all already know all the different styles of growing, and how to manipulate plants by defoliating, lollipopping etc. to get bigger plants without any waste, and even save electricity at the same time. That's already pretty advanced stuff we've learned through long time of real testing and results.

I'm not attacking you, you just started the thread with your own preferences at the first post what i didn't want to see. So please no more of that.

Maybe i also repeated some points for you to understand clearly what i'm asking, you can also ask me what i want to achieve. Deal?
 
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Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Frank Nitty said:
18-6 for photos??? How does that work out??? Do any of your plants hermie when doing this???
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I've never got any but healthy plants from more growths i can count, and even shittier conditions when i started in my closet like a decade ago. Or what cycle do you propose to use for photos in veg state before flowering? I've read people grow in 20/4 and even 24h, but i don't wanna take any risks to stress my plants, because 18/6 for veg has worked perfectly for me and everyone i know with all kind of manipulation tactics on top of that, do you follow?.

Do you also propose other than 12/12 for flowering cycle for photos? Got any real data behind even for that first comment? Dont photos need darkness at all?
 
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Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Horselover fat said:
A quick search didn't come up with the whole study, but I found this, which seems to correlate with our experience.

"A GW Pharmaceuticals study compared the growth rates of eight varieties in day lengths of 18 and 24 h. After 3 weeks the plants in the 18 h day length (mean height 32.3 cm, dry foliage weight 4.00 g) were shorter and lighter than those in a 24 h day length (mean 36.2 cm and 7.34 g). The reduction in height was not statistically significant (paired 2-tailed t-test, p = 0.054) but the weight decrease was highly so (p = 2.53 × 10−5).
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This read (or study?) was really weird to me too, i simpler version would be nice to understand and was there actual source who did and what?
 
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Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
ComfortCreator said:
I commented in your other thread also. A lot of chaff in that thread.

I think you are asking a fair question. The industry however tends to look at it the other way...what is the MINIMUM DLI th they need to thrive? They take into account cost so efficiency becomes critical in making a profit. So that works against your goal of discovering the ideal maximum.

In every facet they look to cut corners or in more fair terminology minimize costs. As I mentioned in the other thread they often dry for 4 or 5 days and jar it up! I know several folks who have worked in the drying rooms and explained this to me. It "works".

So your question, I think, is:
If you can grow with expert knowledge and experience,
And you have unlimited resources,
What is the ideal amount of light and what light interval works best in veg and flower?

Is really hard to figure, because formalized studies dont usually allow for all these things. (Imo)

Each component has been studied...i.e
Change one variable at a time in order to insure the scientific process...but a study combining ALL elements would be very pricey and show results for that top 1% of growers...and likely not apply to me or most growers very well.
Click to expand...
Okay i understand what you are saying now, big companies sure want to cut corners and produce the most with the least amount they can. SO they don't even bother to study ideal conditions when shittier conditions work?

I really thought there would be some experienced growers and companies doing real work to maximize the effeciency in every way.

And yeah, the other thread suddenly went to complete shit when two idiots started fighting about something that didn't even have anything to do with the topic. Like 2 pages of them going against each other. Like wtf happened there? I gave up and moved here in the advanced section hoping to get real answers.

Maybe we will not get the real answer for a long long time before people actually start studying.

I guess this thread is done if NO ONE has any studies done one this topic for photoperioodic lights.
 
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Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Or if there ISN'T real shit proving more light than 18/6 in veg state results in bigger plants, and what that light cycle is, and should you run the same higher light cycle before flowering?

Sorry if i'm "a noob" at growing photoperiod plant in light cycles pretty much everyone has in the last decade suggested to run in.

You know guys when i bought a tent and other pretty professional stuff that can control everything, now the ONLY thing i'm after light cycles and how to maximize my grow without fucking my plants when my decade from shitty conditions to pretty professional space has always grown good plants. And guess what, never had any problems with my plants, so that proves i'm doing shit right, but i want even better results so i can maximize my light usage without any problems (and at the same time i'm searching for studies done with similar topic)

My last grow already was massive, but i want to get the biggest plants and juiciest buds i can in my tent. /rant :D
 
Frank Nitty

Frank Nitty

Well-Known Member
Blossom21 said:
I've never got any but healthy plants from more growths i can count, and even shittier conditions when i started in my closet like a decade ago. Or what cycle do you propose to use for photos in veg state before flowering? I've read people grow in 20/4 and even 24h, but i don't wanna take any risks to stress my plants, because 18/6 for veg has worked perfectly for me and everyone i know with all kind of manipulation tactics on top of that, do you follow?.

Do you also propose other than 12/12 for flowering cycle for photos? Got any real data behind even for that first comment? Dont photos need darkness at all?
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I was just wondering if you meant 18-6 in flower... I'm no where near the one who could provide evidence for anything, cause I just freestyle everything that I do...
 
Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
But at last my comment what i was i looking and i'm quoting you

"What is the ideal amount of light and what light interval works best in veg and flower?"

Why not study such an important thing that could result in more growth and better bud? Lazyness? Thinking they have already figured out everything? When such massive companies have so massive grow rooms and LED's that can be automated to control the amount of light and height, why not even test it? Or have they tested it all and keeping their data for themselves? Well i don't know and seems no one else knowns.

I want to to known from people who grow in massive plants how much they do testing, have they tested any of this and how much they cut corners?

I really think this is the next big thing in growing advanced cannabis and getting better results. Don't you agree?
 
Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Frank Nitty said:
I was just wondering if you meant 18-6 in flower... I'm no where near the one who could provide evidence for anything, cause I just freestyle everything that I do...
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Well ofc not. How could i even start flowering at 18/6? Come one bro read i have a decade of successful grows from a pretty small closet to now to pretty professional setup, and i have always got good results even when i started.. Ofc at the start my more experienced friend showed me all the basics and i have grown on my own since, gathering information from everywhere, then reading and writing in my notepad(s) from my own grows pretty much everyday what i do (i still do that so i always know where i'm at and when it's time to do what. And i got tons of tips in my notepad when to do what and i'm gathering useful information there if i happen to find some.)

At the moment i know pretty much perfectly with my own preference how to grow massive plants with different techniques, when to do them, when to start flowering etc. But i just wanted to know more about lights, that's pretty much my FINAL FIGHT :bigjoint:
 
Horselover fat

Horselover fat

Well-Known Member
Blossom21 said:
You know what i realize instantly reading your post, that's YOUR own preference of growing, not actual proven data.

Want me to shorten my question to as short as possible? What light conditions give the most massive growth aka results that has data behind it?

And if we ignore now all the tested techniques and conditions for good growth, what about lights and their cycles? That was the topic i was looking to get answers to. If i don't get answers to it, that's perfectly OK, but i think this is the next big thing with growing bigger and faster when other techiniques have been pretty much mastered. Have we publicly studied how light and their cycles affect the plants from the start to the end? Is there results with data? Have anyone pro leaked anything? That's what i'm after! Nature has done it's thing forever and given the plants the light to grow so massive plants, but now i wanna dig deeper for testing how much we can push light (pref without extra CO2)

As you said at the start, "not known, depends". That's why i mentioned the biggest growers with their whole lifetime of experience who have tested this stuff in multiple conditions and probably found near the perfect formula to grow cannabis. That testing would be easy for them in test rooms and study how cannabis grows in different conditions for example how root mass developes and how light cycles affect that growth etc.

1. The growings conditions have to be pretty damn good, but plants are somewhat forgiving, so they don't have to be perfect. I have pretty damn good setup, that just lacks the data for real tested light cycles. I could easily change the cycles just by opening my tent to what i want if that data was available, every day, to even mimic the sun if that would give optimal results, lmao.

And we all already know all the different styles of growing, and how to manipulate plants by defoliating, lollipopping etc. to get bigger plants without any waste, and even save electricity at the same time. That's already pretty advanced stuff we've learned through long time of real testing and results.

I'm not attacking you, you just started the thread with your own preferences at the first post what i didn't want to see. So please no more of that.

Maybe i also repeated some points for you to understand clearly what i'm asking, you can also ask me what i want to achieve. Deal?
Click to expand...

The experience part was my attempt to say that different grow styles may benefit from different veg styles. Then I went on to say what I think matters in my experience (i've been growing on and off for 14 years and slowly feel like I'm getting the hang of it) and backed it up with a study made made by an actual pharmaceutical company (gw pharmaceuticals). I give myself 4/5 stars for the answer :D
 
Blossom21

Blossom21

Active Member
Horselover fat said:
The experience part was my attempt to say that different grow styles may benefit from different veg styles. Then I went on to say what I think matters in my experience (i've been growing on and off for 14 years and slowly feel like I'm getting the hang of it) and backed it up with a study made made by an actual pharmaceutical company (gw pharmaceuticals). I give myself 4/5 stars for the answer :D
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Ofc different veg styles result in different results, that's no debate because i've tried different styles so much, but my current grow is in 5 gallon air pots filled with 30% coco / 70% soil (soil being BioBizz All Mix that has all kind of different stuff mixed in it, seriously it's the best soil i've ever had when you mix it with coco to get the mix lighter, and you don't need nutes for a long time when you have it, it's so nice to start new plants with, and then slowly start giving nutes when the soil can't support the plants)

If that study is right, and i know it is at least some way, that means giving photoperiods (did they use photos btw?) 18/6 instead of 24h is far superior because of the stretching. Why would anyone wanna grow slow stretching plants that can't be manipulated faster and easier? How about testing other cycles and how they behave, they could give superior info about lights.

Do you have the actual full source in hand?

And yeah btw i've grown about 10 years, much more than the average growers, so i've getting hang of the whole thing and i use multiple tactics to manipulate my plants so i get the biggest plants with more colas than i can even sometimes handle :P. So don't treat me like a new grower please, i'm just trying to maximize my light cycles if that gives me even better results. The "standard" cycles hsve treated me very well with adjusting my quantum boards to give pretty much perfect amount light with the right distance, so it's easy to bend the plants, crop them etc. so they grow fast and easy without any problems. Don't even remember having any problems in a long time. One plant comes in to my mind because i wasn't giving it enough nutes but the plant recover pretty fast after that.

The whole idea of this thread was to maximize the "normal" growers light cycles to get the ultimate results. We aren't growing in labs aren't we? And if we get more data how the plants behave under different light cycles (assuming the testings places are identical and near perfect conditions).

I want to know how the plants behave under from the start to the finish, because flowrering is also a part of the results i wanna see. Mutiple growers use different cycles in flowering stage too, but there's no actual data behind it.
 
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Horselover fat

Horselover fat

Well-Known Member
Blossom21 said:
If that study is right, and i know it is at least some way, that means giving photoperiods (did they use photos btw?) 18/6 instead of 24h is far superior because of the stretching. Why would anyone wanna grow slow stretching plants that can't be manipulated faster and easier? How about testing other cycles and how they behave, they could give superior info about lights.
Click to expand...
Stretch is just stem/longer inter nodal length. The 24/0 plants had more mass = bigger plant, fatter stems and more leaves. I want very little stretch. My plants are short, but they are wide. Someone growing tall trees will want a very different veg.
 
Star Dog

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
Blossom21 said:
And yeah btw i've grown about 10 years, much more than the average growers,
.
So don't treat me like a new grower please
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10 years?

I really don’t understand why people have to lie about how long they’ve been growing constantly? Who you trying to impress with lies?

Planning my first grow, thinking about the details

I'm going to grow 4 plants in a 4x4 tent, starting seeds in little cups and transplanting them to 7 gallon pots (in their final pot size of course). How do you correctly water tinier plants in so big pots so they grow good roots, and don't drown or dry too much? My tent is 6.5" high, at what...
www.rollitup.org
 
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xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
bk78 said:
10 years?

I really don’t understand why people have to lie about how long they’ve been growing constantly? Who you tryimg to impress with lies?

Planning my first grow, thinking about the details

I'm going to grow 4 plants in a 4x4 tent, starting seeds in little cups and transplanting them to 7 gallon pots (in their final pot size of course). How do you correctly water tinier plants in so big pots so they grow good roots, and don't drown or dry too much? My tent is 6.5" high, at what...
www.rollitup.org
Click to expand...
Oh my.

I wonder if they'll be back.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
The issues are many...if you run 24/0,....WHAT are you running 24/0? That is why DLI came into the equation. That measure is what you want...but that is not perfect either. Each strain is different, wants certain grow conditions and nutrition. Any changes in grow style affect the result.

But as mentioned...more light is more growth. There are limits and there are many things that prevent most growers from using it. It's like riding the edge on something it is better and safer not to push the limit like a test pilot in Top Gun :)
 
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