Is this considered an organic grow?

U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
I'm using 1/3 perlite, 1/3 Coco Coir, remaining 1/3 was primarily home made compost with 3 handfuls of store bought farmyard manure. I also used Miracle-Gro Pour & Feed bio-stimulant from week 1 of flower but recommended dosage seem to be heating up the soil after a few weeks with plants darkening so I backed off for a few weeks, now half dosage. The growth has been phenomenal but my yardstick isn't the best to measure by having previously grow on the cheap by amending multi-purpose compost. I think the soil used to dry out and stall the plants so I decided to really do some research and thought I'd try this. I have living worms in it which I thought had died because I left the compost in a closed bag for weeks. They rise to the surface soon after a watering if its dark but are probably not red wrigglers. 7 Weeks in and I've never seen anything like the quality of bud and overall plant health before at this stage of the grow, buds are fat well early. All I've done is add water, and only now are fan leaves starting to show their age. So, is this considered an organic grow if I'm using Miracle-Gro Pour & Feed biostimulant? It has no NPK on the bottle, apparently it contains 'Humifirst', not sure what else..
 
Last edited:
JoeBlow5823

JoeBlow5823

Well-Known Member
ukdave said:
I'm using 1/3 perlite, 1/3 Coco Coir, remaining 1/3 was primarily home made compost with 3 handfuls of store bought farmyard manure. I also used Miracle-Gro Pour & Feed bio-stimulant from week 1 of flower but recommended dosage seem to be heating up the soil after a few weeks with plants darkening so I backed off for a few weeks, now half dosage. The growth has been phenomenal but my yardstick isn't the best to measure by having previously grow on the cheap by amending multi-purpose compost. I think the soil used to dry out and stall the plants so I decided to really do some research and thought I'd try this. I have living worms in it which I thought had died because I left the compost in a closed bag for weeks. They rise to the surface soon after a watering if its dark but are probably not red wrigglers. 7 Weeks in and I've never seen anything like the quality of bud and overall plant health before at this stage of the grow, buds are fat well early. All I've done is add water, and only now are fan leaves starting to show their age. So, is this considered an organic grow if I'm using Miracle-Gro Pour & Feed biostimulant? It has no NPK on the bottle, apparently it contains 'Humifirst', not sure what else..
Click to expand...
Cant find any info on that miracle grow- i would assume its not organic. At this stage of the game i would top dress them with something similar to this.
IMG_1014.JPG

That miracle grow has no info on what nutrients are in it. This is organic and specifically for flowering stage. Just add about a half cup per plant and it slow releases every time you water- lasts 2-4 weeks. 14$ for 8 pounds which will last a long time.
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
JoeBlow5823 said:
Cant find any info on that miracle grow- i would assume its not organic. At this stage of the game i would top dress them with something similar to this.
View attachment 4669420

That miracle grow has no info on what nutrients are in it. This is organic and specifically for flowering stage. Just add about a half cup per plant and it slow releases every time you water- lasts 2-4 weeks. 14$ for 8 pounds which will last a long time.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip, I can't find that product for sale locally. I think there are enough nutrients in the mix for the whole grow, a lot of food went into making the compost. I can see that organic bloom has got a lot of goodies in the ingredients list, everything I'd like actually. If I could afford that sort of thing would I need compost and manure at all?
I found a declaration Miracle-Gro had to make for the older version of Pour & Feed, without Humifirst, can't remember what the main ingredient was , probably a weak nutrient, a carrier for the goodies. Microbes and stuff, who knows whats in there. I was thinking about trying Biobizz liquid feeds next time if I don't make the potting mix so rich.

From what I've discovered Humifirst contains Humic and Fulvic acid but suspect it has the full monty, whatever that may be, probably amino acids, microbes, scary shit if you look in a microscope, those sorts of things..

I don't know if the results I'm seeing are down to the coco/perlite mix, or the biostimulant, or both working well together as they are both a first time use for me. I've heard switching to coco can double plant size and that's what has happened.
 
Last edited:
JoeBlow5823

JoeBlow5823

Well-Known Member
ukdave said:
Thanks for the tip, I can't find that product for sale locally. I think there are enough nutrients in the mix for the whole grow, a lot of food went into making the compost. I can see that organic bloom has got a lot of goodies in the ingredients list, everything I'd like actually. If I could afford that sort of thing would I need compost and manure at all?
I found a declaration Miracle-Gro had to make for the older version of Pour & Feed, without Humifirst, can't remember what the main ingredient was , probably a weak nutrient, a carrier for the goodies. Microbes and stuff, who knows whats in there. I was thinking about trying Biobizz liquid feeds next time if I don't make the potting mix so rich.

From what I've discovered Humifirst contains Humic and Fulvic acid but suspect it has the full monty, whatever that may be, probably amino acids, microbes, scary shit if you look in a microscope, those sorts of things..

I don't know if the results I'm seeing are down to the coco/perlite mix, or the biostimulant, or both working well together as they are both a first time use for me. I've heard switching to coco can double plant size and that's what has happened.
Click to expand...
Im sure you can find a very similar product locally. Just hit up a hydro shop. If you think they have enough food to last until harvest, stop giving them miracle grow. Compost and dry amendment are two very different things.... you made a sort of a soil blend. If you just used coco perlite and dry amendment, it would basically be a hydroponic grow. I would stop giving them miracle grow at this point no matter what....
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
JoeBlow5823 said:
Im sure you can find a very similar product locally. Just hit up a hydro shop. If you think they have enough food to last until harvest, stop giving them miracle grow. Compost and dry amendment are two very different things.... you made a sort of a soil blend. If you just used coco perlite and dry amendment, it would basically be a hydroponic grow. I would stop giving them miracle grow at this point no matter what....
Click to expand...
Thanks, we do have a local hydro shop, I'll pop in see how much something similar or same costs if they have it. Money is an issue or I wouldn't be using home made compost etc. That said I am so delighted with the results I'm wondering if there is a need to spend money I haven't got. I would like to try switching to a more balanced well thought out dry amendment recipe though. I've got some water soluble Chitosan coming for next grow, its the primary ingredient bud factor x. I've probably done about 15 to 20 personal grows in my life and this one is the best as far as rapid growth and overall quality. I don't think Miracle-Gro Biostimulant will; even be necessary with the mix you are using , it has Triacontanol from the alfalfa, seaweed, the lot, so I can see why you recommended it.... Definitely on my to try list.
 
Last edited:
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
That MG is very weak. its not "organic" at all but it will not hurt anything. (if the data sheet im reading is correct , you can feed that undiluted. 0.2-0.2-0.2 ) As with all plant food , back off until they need or want it.
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
Your success is due to your homemade compost, not the MG. Good compost is what very few people have access to.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting thought thanks, I should try without it. Do you think I needed to add the farmyard manure? I had plenty of compost so technically didn't have to but somehow thought it may help.

getogrow said:
That MG is very weak. its not "organic" at all but it will not hurt anything. (if the data sheet im reading is correct , you can feed that undiluted. 0.2-0.2-0.2 ) As with all plant food , back off until they need or want it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input, I only decided to use it for the Humifirst bio-stimulant they added to the most recent bottles of Pour & Feed. Apparently agriculture can incorporate up to 10% of non organic nutrients and still be described as organic, but I'd rather have none.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
ukdave said:
That's an interesting thought thanks, I should try without it. Do you think I needed to add the farmyard manure? I had plenty of compost so technically didn't have to but somehow thought it may help.


Thanks for your input, I only decided to use it for the Humifirst bio-stimulant they added to the most recent bottles of Pour & Feed. Apparently agriculture can incorporate up to 10% of non organic nutrients and still be described as organic, but I'd rather have none.
Click to expand...
i think 10% is a low number. i believe omri certified organic is a joke. as long as the company has the money and its over 50% organic then they can get the omri rating. i think thats correct.
If you really want a bio stimulant then buy them seperate. molasses will feed the soil and you can add good ammendments like humic an fulvic and amonia acids.....all kinds of good shit. Nothing wrong with the MG though. its not a bad thing to use. (its got the same ingredients of the fancy name bottles give or take a few. )
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
i think 10% is a low number. i believe omri certified organic is a joke. as long as the company has the money and its over 50% organic then they can get the omri rating. i think thats correct.
If you really want a bio stimulant then buy them seperate. molasses will feed the soil and you can add good amendments like humic an fulvic and amonia acids.....all kinds of good shit. Nothing wrong with the MG though. its not a bad thing to use. (its got the same ingredients of the fancy name bottles give or take a few. )
Click to expand...
Yes I was thinking about that myself, adding Alfalfa, kelp and all the acids next time to replace the Pour & Feed. I've not uses molasses for feeding the microbes before, sounds like hassle.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
ukdave said:
That's an interesting thought thanks, I should try without it. Do you think I needed to add the farmyard manure? I had plenty of compost so technically didn't have to but somehow thought it may help.


Thanks for your input, I only decided to use it for the Humifirst bio-stimulant they added to the most recent bottles of Pour & Feed. Apparently agriculture can incorporate up to 10% of non organic nutrients and still be described as organic, but I'd rather have none.
Click to expand...
Yeah there are threads discussing each animals contributions, lol. Each has different NPK ratios. If you have farm access, you are going to be a happy soil grower!
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
Yeah there are threads discussing each animals contributions, lol. Each has different NPK ratios. If you have farm access, you are going to be a happy soil grower!
Click to expand...
I've been obsessing about soil lately so that's interesting, I'll definitely look for the threads because I was thinking of trying the 'Raw' product line by NPK-Industries, but don't really know enough to formulate a recipe but it could be fun.
 
Y

youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
It's interesting to see a UK guy with Miracle Gro "Humifirst Biostimulants." I don't know if that stuff is in North America yet. I've been checking out a lot of info from Harley Smith. He said it was Dutch guys who really got into this stuff first, back in the early 2000s when they banned fungicides. I guess it makes sense Europeans would get a "mainstream," easy to use product first.

If you're interested in using the RAW products, search for the "RAW Nutrients feeding schedule," it shouldn't be hard to find. Harley Smith also has a bunch of videos on talking about using the RAW stuff as well.

Are any of you organic bros getting down with this Biostimulant idea? Using amino acids and humic/fulvic acid to promote calcium uptake and fight fungus? Or plant hormones to stimulate root growth or tight nodes? I'm about to finish my first grow messing around with this stuff and I'm pretty excited to see the results.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
It's interesting to see a UK guy with Miracle Gro "Humifirst Biostimulants." I don't know if that stuff is in North America yet. I've been checking out a lot of info from Harley Smith. He said it was Dutch guys who really got into this stuff first, back in the early 2000s when they banned fungicides. I guess it makes sense Europeans would get a "mainstream," easy to use product first.

If you're interested in using the RAW products, search for the "RAW Nutrients feeding schedule," it shouldn't be hard to find. Harley Smith also has a bunch of videos on talking about using the RAW stuff as well.

Are any of you organic bros getting down with this Biostimulant idea? Using amino acids and humic/fulvic acid to promote calcium uptake and fight fungus? Or plant hormones to stimulate root growth or tight nodes? I'm about to finish my first grow messing around with this stuff and I'm pretty excited to see the results.
Click to expand...
a plant hormone is completely different then the rest of the goodies i believe. you dont wanna use anything hormone related. humic/fulvic, all that is contained in good compost.
molasses is not a hassle at all , you just feed it like you would any other plant food. i use it on every plant i have. not every watering. it feeds the bacteria....nothing you will see with the naked eye will happen.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
ukdave said:
Yes I was thinking about that myself, adding Alfalfa, kelp and all the acids next time to replace the Pour & Feed. I've not uses molasses for feeding the microbes before, sounds like hassle.
Click to expand...
it takes microbes to break down the alfalfa , kelp and such. its not plant food until the microbes have done their job.
 
U

ukdave

Well-Known Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
It's interesting to see a UK guy with Miracle Gro "Humifirst Biostimulants." I don't know if that stuff is in North America yet. I've been checking out a lot of info from Harley Smith. He said it was Dutch guys who really got into this stuff first, back in the early 2000s when they banned fungicides. I guess it makes sense Europeans would get a "mainstream," easy to use product first.

If you're interested in using the RAW products, search for the "RAW Nutrients feeding schedule," it shouldn't be hard to find. Harley Smith also has a bunch of videos on talking about using the RAW stuff as well.

Are any of you organic bros getting down with this Biostimulant idea? Using amino acids and humic/fulvic acid to promote calcium uptake and fight fungus? Or plant hormones to stimulate root growth or tight nodes? I'm about to finish my first grow messing around with this stuff and I'm pretty excited to see the results.
Click to expand...
I have been watching Harley Smith videos, I looked up Bio-stimulant on Youtube because it was written on the back of the Pour & Feed bottle, that's how I found his videos. I thought he was going to have an orgasm talking about Calcium uptake, I'm going to be listening to him over. Thanks for the tip re the schedule, didn't know about that. - Some of the older bottles are still in the shops, newer bottles have a blue strip across the label that says some thing like 'Now with added Bio-Stimulant'. Maybe they are on the way, its been added to a few products in the UK. I bet Harley Smith knows whats in it. Bio-stimulants improve the uptake of nutrients, so with the hormones in alfalfa and kelp next time they should grow like the clappers if I add that to my home made compost.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top