Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

nxsov180db said:

Ok, that sounds about right for a 4x4, I use about 750 watts of cob per 4x4. What did you feed them your last run?

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I fed them some Maxi bloom as my base but must have misscalculated somewhere.

So i still handwater a lot, so i got tired of mixing watering can after watering can night after night... so i put a spiggot on a 20 gallon tote and mixed 16 gallons of Jacks 3-2. Do i need to run a pond pump or anything in there? Ive never mixed ahead before.. its prob only a 3 to 4 day supply too if that matters...

Huckster79 said:

So i still handwater a lot, so i got tired of mixing watering can after watering can night after night... so i put a spiggot on a 20 gallon tote and mixed 16 gallons of Jacks 3-2. Do i need to run a pond pump or anything in there? Ive never mixed ahead before.. its prob only a 3 to 4 day supply too if that matters...

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mix it 4x the strength

add the salts for 16 gallons to 4 gallons

then reduce the mix by cutting it with water at something around a 4:1 mix

so you got your 4 gallon stock mix

youd add roughly 1 gallon of stock mix to 3 to 4 gallons water ...using an EC or PPM meter to meet your target at least the first time you use it

and water your plants


or...add an air stone

im4satori said:

the veg recipe has total active elemental ppm of about 450ppm (not to be confused with what your ppm pen measures)

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I apologize in advance for asking you to remember what you meant by this almost 2 years ago, but could you please elaborate more? I made a concentrate with my Jack's, and I tested each part by adding a single gram to a gallon 4 times, measuring EC in between, so I already have my nutes charted against my supplies, but if I am to understand the compositions that I will be working with, I feel I need to internalize what you said. Can you explain how the 2 systems of PPM differ, and how one might be able to break their mixes down into elemental composition as you do?

Skybound420 said:

I apologize in advance for asking you to remember what you meant by this almost 2 years ago, but could you please elaborate more? I made a concentrate with my Jack's, and I tested each part by adding a single gram to a gallon 4 times, measuring EC in between, so I already have my nutes charted against my supplies, but if I am to understand the compositions that I will be working with, I feel I need to internalize what you said. Can you explain how the 2 systems of PPM differ, and how one might be able to break their mixes down into elemental composition as you do?

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I will do my best

it can be confusing to explain and linking you to reading material (if I had any handy) would probably be a long read

I will start with an example;
have you ever gotten or seen a source water analysis... perhaps you've had one at your residence??

if you have then you know
they take a sample of the water (say from your tap) and have a lab test it and the report will tell you exactly how much of each mineral is in the water and determine if its safe for drinking as is or requires additional filtration to remove excessive minerals

the test result would list minerals in the water in PPM parts per million /liter or gallon for each individual element

for example
0.002ppm copper
3ppm chloride
1ppm sodium
30ppm calcium

that PPM refers to "active elemental PPM"


active elemental ppm is not the same thing as EC or the same thing as "PPM from your meter"

the PPM from your meter is actually a conversion of EC... so really the ppm meter is reading electrical current.... it is not actually telling you anything about the active elemental ppm

thru mathematical equation you can anticipate how much of an element, for example Nitrogen, will exist in a solution after adding fertilizer

your fertilizer provides N-P-K % amounts and hopefully also tells the % fro each element in the bag

on the label it migh tlook like this;

N......5%
P.......3%
K.......7%
Ca.....3%
Mg......1.5%

and so on

I use a calculator to do the math... im not that smart but I can use a calculator lol

so if you know how many grams or mls per gallon, and have all the % info from the product you can anticipate how many PPM of Nitrogen (or any other, every other element) will exist in the solution after adding the fertilizer

id upload a pic and show you the calculator I use but ive not been able to upload pics in a while and ive not figured out why

google hydrobuddy and down load the hydro buddy calculator

its free and you can find it easily...

I think general hydro has a limit version on there site that only works for there products but that would be an example for you to see at min.


if you want to go thru my hydro journal (linked under my posts) I posts many pictures and spend some time going over the calculator

here it is already on page two and it goes on

https://www.rollitup.org/t/satori-f2-x-querkle-male-project.930071/page-2

Thank's for the explanation. I installed HydroBuddy, but can't quite figure it out. FYI, I'm using Jack's Pro 5-12-26, but I'm on the fence which ratio I'll be using. That said, I was hoping to save Jack's A and Jack's B as like a profile that I can reference later, but I just want to enter the percentages as you said, but I can't find the proper setting that would allow me to enter in the percentages, and it output ppm. Is Elemental PPM the same as multiplying the percentages by the volume?

Edit - I'm on the fence between Jack's 321, Jack's 3.6, 2.4, 1.1, and another I found that is 2.4, 1.6, 0, but before I really commit to any one, I would like to see the output of say 2.4 grams of Jack's A in a gallon along with 1.6 of Jack's B.

I remember years back GH had their nutrient calculator that output PPM, except their finding was damn near spot on what my meter was reading.

Edit2 - I added up the contents of Jack's 5-12-26 and notice it only adds to 58.249%. Does this mean the elemental PPM is 58.249, and measured PPM will include the remaining 41.751%?

Keep in mind that epsom salt is a good thing, just dissolve it into solution separately from calcium nitrate.

By mass:
Three parts 5-12-26 mix
Two parts calcium nitrate
One part epsom salt

This is a classic, time tested recipe. Dilute to desired strength after mixing all these together. ph the solution last, after mixing and dilution.

ttystikk said:

Keep in mind that epsom salt is a good thing, just dissolve it into solution separately from calcium nitrate.

By mass:
Three parts 5-12-26 mix
Two parts calcium nitrate
One part epsom salt

This is a classic, time tested recipe. Dilute to desired strength after mixing all these together. ph the solution last, after mixing and dilution.

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^^^^^^^ what he said


personally id prefer a lower EC mix but in the same ratio

id mix

2.25 jacks
1.5 cal nite

if you want to add 0.75 Epsom (but you may not actually need the Epsom with jack)

if you look at the % amount for jacks its a bit higher than the 5-11-26 hydro special mix many people use at 3-2-1



as for adding up the % as you did .. NO... that's not at all how it works and adding them that way provides nothing useful

youd need to first convert the % amounts to PPM values using the calculator and then add them up

I stay around 450 PPM active elemental ppm at full strength..(again this is not a reflection of the PPM reading a meter would provide

did you look at the journal I linked?

just looking at the npk numbers and speaking in terms of bloom mix

jack 3-2-1 (high in my opinion)
119 N
41 P
171 K


jack 3.6-2.4 (insanely high)
143 N
50 P
205 K

jacks 2.4-1.6 (I like this one also)
95 N
33 P
137 K


jacks 2.25-1.5 (this is good same ratio as 3-2-1 just lower EC)
89 N
31 P
128 K


so I could add these numbers up along with the calcium, magnesium, sulfur and all the micro nutes to get the total active elemental ppm

for example

100 N
50 P
150 K
100 Ca
50 Mg
60 Su

that's 510ppm (plus a few more for the micro nutes)

im4satori said:

id mix

2.25 jacks
1.5 cal nite

if you want to add 0.75 Epsom (but you may not actually need the Epsom with jack)


I stay around 450 PPM active elemental ppm at full strength..(again this is not a reflection of the PPM reading a meter would provide

did you look at the journal I linked?

Click to expand...

The recipe I started is 2.4 Jack's 1.6 CalNit and I will add some Epsom too. On my 321 thread, firsttimeARE shared this recipe with me and it made a lot of sense to me now and at the time. I'm still on the uphill of my learning curve, but the material I've read so far suggests that this recipe would still keep me in the safe zone, but on the under side of EC which is what I prefer.

I haven't yet read the thread you told me to, but I will right now and reserve the questions I still have till after I read that.

Skybound420 said:

View attachment 4196971

The recipe I started is 2.4 Jack's 1.6 CalNit and I will add some Epsom too. On my 321 thread, firsttimeARE shared this recipe with me and it made a lot of sense to me now and at the time. I'm still on the uphill of my learning curve, but the material I've read so far suggests that this recipe would still keep me in the safe zone, but on the under side of EC which is what I prefer.

I haven't yet read the thread you told me to, but I will right now and reserve the questions I still have till after I read that.

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I added something to my last post

Skybound420 said:

The recipe I started is 2.4 Jack's 1.6 CalNit and I will add some Epsom too. On my 321 thread, firsttimeARE shared this recipe with me and it made a lot of sense to me now and at the time. I'm still on the uphill of my learning curve, but the material I've read so far suggests that this recipe would still keep me in the safe zone, but on the under side of EC which is what I prefer.

I haven't yet read the thread you told me to, but I will right now and reserve the questions I still have till after I read that.

View attachment 4196977

Click to expand...

ok so you got all the info

now to use hydrobuddy on the main page first click on the substance selection page

then click add custom and add your jacks mix and name it

then add the calcinte and mix and whatever else to the substances used for calculation column by selecting and clicking ADD
and
remove the ones you don't intend to use

after you have your substances inputted and selected go back to the main page and key in the figures youd lik to see for NPK.....and fill out all the rest of the page and click carry out calculation

then switch to the results page to view the mix ratio in grams per gallon for each element

just keep fiddling with it and get familiar

im4satori said:

after you have your substances inputted and selected go back to the main page and key in the figures youd lik to see for NPK.....and fill out all the rest of the page and click carry out calculation

then switch to the results page to view the mix ratio in grams per gallon for each element

just keep fiddling with it and get familiar

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I made it this far then got stuck again. What do you mean "key in the figures you'd like to see"? I don't know what numbers I'd like to see. I was hoping HydroBuddy would accept the mix I made on the Substances page and apply that combo to the volume I select on the Main page and tell me what those numbers will be? I believe I know every other datatype and value, just not the multiplied ratio or the elemental PPM.

Edit - On the substance page, I added Jack's A, CalNit, MagSul(epsom), MKP, and "set weight" in grams for each part, so 2.4 - 1.6 - 0.5 - 0.75.

im4satori said:

^^^^^^^ what he said


personally id prefer a lower EC mix but in the same ratio

id mix

2.25 jacks
1.5 cal nite

if you want to add 0.75 Epsom (but you may not actually need the Epsom with jack)

if you look at the % amount for jacks its a bit higher than the 5-11-26 hydro special mix many people use at 3-2-1



as for adding up the % as you did .. NO... that's not at all how it works and adding them that way provides nothing useful

youd need to first convert the % amounts to PPM values using the calculator and then add them up

I stay around 450 PPM active elemental ppm at full strength..(again this is not a reflection of the PPM reading a meter would provide

did you look at the journal I linked?

Click to expand...

Epsom salt is actually pretty light in nutrient so a bit more won't hurt.

The idea behind using the ratio approach is that it can then be diluted to whatever the grower wants.

ttystikk said:

The idea behind using the ratio approach is that it can then be diluted to whatever the grower wants.

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Aside from users generically endorsing 321, I haven't crossed any feedback about why 321 is good. Conversely, the variation that im4satori is proposing is the same one that firsttimeARE is using and they both suggest that the ratio is more balanced for what we need. I saw in one of satori's posts where he likens 3.6, 2.4, 1.1 (which is Jack's 321) as way too hot, the 321 as just plain hot and 2.4, 1.6, 0 as balanced. This tells me that though the elements might not be totally ideal, this ratio seems to be in a state of equilibrium in that none of the elements will be nearing toxicity or deficiency and may even be better to use for raising individual elements in the long run. I still have too much to learn as I just got into dry nutes a week ago and now have about $200 of GH stuff that will collect dust. My studies started me at 321, but now it just feels right to go this way.

Skybound420 said:

Aside from users generically endorsing 321, I haven't crossed any feedback about why 321 is good. Conversely, the variation that im4satori is proposing is the same one that firsttimeARE is using and they both suggest that the ratio is more balanced for what we need. I saw in one of satori's posts where he likens 3.6, 2.4, 1.1 (which is Jack's 321) as way too hot, the 321 as just plain hot and 2.4, 1.6, 0 as balanced. This tells me that though the elements might not be totally ideal, this ratio seems to be in a state of equilibrium in that none of the elements will be nearing toxicity or deficiency and may even be better to use for raising individual elements in the long run. I still have too much to learn as I just got into dry nutes a week ago and now have about $200 of GH stuff that will collect dust. My studies started me at 321, but now it just feels right to go this way.

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you doing pretty good so far

let me tell you up front... lots of guys feed very high EC amounts with good results
personally I don't know how they get by with such huge amounts of nutrient and still end up with great grows
id argue or suspect they've sought out (even without realizing) plants that will tolerate high salinity... but that doesn't mean they prefer it

so as you look around you will see guys feding super high levels of jacks or whatever! that's a choice you will have to make... but I suggest you start low and complete a harvest before trying to crank things up... that way when your garden doesn't do as well with the high EC feeds youll see whats happening

some of it has to do with grow style and environment to s small marginal degree

for soil I might feed as high as EC1.5 if the soil is very depleted ... otherwise I find that EC1.1 to 1.3 is more than ideal for most grow styles

I could be wrong but.. I believe firsttimARE may have worked with me to get that mix he uses

hydrobuddy isn't as user friendly as my excel spread sheet but it will work

what I did wen I first started... I started comparing the high dollar store bought nutes

you can put any brand of fertilizer in the substance selection category and see how those nutes throw the ppm and compare

for example
if your using the GH 3part you can enter it in and see the results and then try and duplicate there mix


generally speaking there are two most common ratios between elements that work best

Is been a while since I read the tech info so I don't recall exactly which is which or whatever its been 15 years but theres Lucas, stiener, Hoagland and maybe 2 more mixing ratios commonly considered science

I don't recall which is which but the numbers look like one of these two formulas or something inbetween

bloom

lucas 1:1:2ratio
65N
65P
130K

Hoagland (if memory serves) 2:1:3ratio
90N
45P
135K

I prefer the second ratio..the lucas formula tends to lack N and it has more P than required


anything between these numbers is considered in the playing field for bloom

N 65-90
P 40 - 65
K 130 - 150

I've been using only GH for about 3 years and have nuanced nearly every component both up and down, but when using bottled nutes, IDK, it's just common to not understand how each component is constructed or properly adjusted, not withstanding the knowledge that you're now imparting to me, it wouldn't be easy for a common guy to make the right adjustment(s). And as a result, the closest I was able to come to a perfect grow was mild (deficiencies?) throughout the grow. Even the last of my Kush in veg is damaged from an imperfect/unbalanced (for cannabis) formulation, but they'll recover once they get a more evenly balanced regimen. Though I've slowly been walking back the EC thresholds grow to grow, I still had calcium deficiencies, nitrogen toxicities, what I think is a copper deficiency and generally not the happiest looking leaves throughout bloom. They functioned, but they also suffered. This system allows me to visually see all of the macros and major micros relationships to each other and less than a week with this new line, I have a much fuller understanding and in due time, I will be better equipped to adjust individually rather than a long chain of robbing Peter to pay Paul, then robbing Paul to pay.....

BTW, I figured out HydroBuddy. I just need to make minor adjustments to my base nutes and I'll be a true mad scientist! Thanks for all the help.!

ok back on the hydrobuddy

after you get your substance selection done

you go to the main page and type in the PPM of each element youd like to see in the white boxes

so for example if I want

100N
50P
150K

and so on

id write those numbers in the box...fill in the info on gallons and click the carry out calculations button... itll feel like nothing happened! but when you switch over to the results page it will tell you how to use the substances you've selected to best achieve the PPM numbers your after

theres also ways to adjust the weights or mls that will change the PPM number
but since I don't use this program often I don't recall how its done