January to June 2012 warmest first half of any year on record

Antidisestablishmentarian

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
Didn't say that at all. I contend we pollute things, definitely.

Im in the we need more than .00001% of our earth's weather data to determine if in fact we are causing changes to our climate or if its completely natural. We already know the earth's climate changes over time, including before our existance.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
Didn't say that at all. I contend we pollute things, definitely.

Im in the we need more than .00001% of our earth's weather data to determine if in fact we are causing changes to our climate or if its completely natural. We already know the earth's climate changes over time, including before our existance.
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And you figure that the start of this warming trend coinciding with the industrial revolution and the beginning of stead increases in CO2 levels is some cosmic coincidence?
 
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beenthere

New Member
canndo said:
And you figure that the start of this warming trend coinciding with the industrial revolution and the beginning of stead increases in CO2 levels is some cosmic coincidence?
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Other than whining on a forum, what are you personally doing about this dreaded man made climate change of ours?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Other than whining on a forum, what are you personally doing about this dreaded man made climate change of ours?
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If you didn't see my appology, I will make it again, I was wrong about thinking statements made were yours with regard to vulcanism.

Now, what am I doing? firstly I started an alternative fuel company that recycles used fats and vends the resulting biofuels to the heavy equipment rental industry. All of my lights are CFL or LED, I compost
(worm and regular), I recycle glass and plastic, I use a fuel efficient car and limit my frivolous trips. I use low water usage appliances and all of my electrical devices are energy star compliant.

I know that it is a favorite pastime of the right to hunt for "hypocrisy" as though it were a mortal sin but you won't find it here.
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
yup i walk, or bike, and im not a little nancy boy like most of you 180 pound little avg men, i can haul all i need on my back, just like your mothers

j/k but public transit is a good option, i think many people actually use this option, idk, when you only shop for a week at a time its easy to fit all you need in a back pack for a ride home on the bike, or just walk, oh ya and i dont use gas, i heat my house with my grow lights, now if i can just get a solar panel ill almost be off the grid completely
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Samwell Seed Well said:
yup i walk, or bike, and im not a little nancy boy like most of you 180 pound little avg men, i can haul all i need on my back, just like your mothers

j/k but public transit is a good option, i think many people actually use this option, idk, when you only shop for a week at a time its easy to fit all you need in a back pack for a ride home on the bike, or just walk, oh ya and i dont use gas, i heat my house with my grow lights, now if i can just get a solar panel ill almost be off the grid completely
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I don't want anybody's mother on my back. cn
 
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beenthere

New Member
canndo said:
I know that it is a favorite pastime of the right to hunt for "hypocrisy" as though it were a mortal sin but you won't find it here.
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You're right, I love hunting out hypocrites. Apology excepted and props to you for walking the walk, I respect you for that.
 
Antidisestablishmentarian

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
And you figure that the start of this warming trend coinciding with the industrial revolution and the beginning of stead increases in CO2 levels is some cosmic coincidence?
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What I contend is that we have way too few data points to determine it.

There are 6 billion possible data points. We have 117. Less than .0000001%.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
What I contend is that we have way too few data points to determine it.

There are 6 billion possible data points. We have 117. Less than .0000001%.
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You are making the same mistake so many others make, that if man doesn't directly record something then it isn't valid data. We have forensics, we can extrapolate from glacial cores, sea bottom cores, tree rings, peat cores and the like. Beyond that, we do not need a record of all earth history, only that for the last several hundred thousand years, perhaps a few million, the climate history before the present configuratio of the earth is meaningless to us.

Again, do you really think that natural global warming AND co2 increases starting at the beginning of the industrial revolution, given the cycles of the earth is a coincidence? That is quite a coincidence, that an entire global warming cycle started just as man begain buring fossil fuels.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
canndo said:
You are making the same mistake so many others make, that if man doesn't directly record something then it isn't valid data. We have forensics, we can extrapolate from glacial cores, sea bottom cores, tree rings, peat cores and the like. Beyond that, we do not need a record of all earth history, only that for the last several hundred thousand years, perhaps a few million, the climate history before the present configuratio of the earth is meaningless to us.

Again, do you really think that natural global warming AND co2 increases starting at the beginning of the industrial revolution, given the cycles of the earth is a coincidence? That is quite a coincidence, that an entire global warming cycle started just as man begain buring fossil fuels.
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The problem here, as I'm sure you know, is about association v. causation. With the data that we currently have, avg. global temperature (isotopic) tracked very well with atmospheric pCO2 (direct) from ice cores. However it looks like pCO2 trailed temp by some centuries, which suggests that pCO2 in an unperturbed system is a response to temp and not its engine. But "suggests" is the strongest applicable term. We don't yet know what the consequences are of artificially spiking (preloading) pCO2 ... but we will. cn

 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
ice cores are a representation of what Co2 was in the water i thought

so its not the same as current counts of co2 production as it takes time for the Co2 to be absobed into the oceans waters? or do i have something wrong there
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
The problem here, as I'm sure you know, is about association v. causation. With the data that we currently have, avg. global temperature (isotopic) tracked very well with atmospheric pCO2 (direct) from ice cores. However it looks like pCO2 trailed temp by some centuries, which suggests that pCO2 in an unperturbed system is a response to temp and not its engine. But "suggests" is the strongest applicable term. We don't yet know what the consequences are of artificially spiking (preloading) pCO2 ... but we will. cn

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nd
I have yet to see any reasonable theory on how temperature spikes promote higher co2 - or rather real proof of that, I don't see co2 increases always preceeding temperature spikes. Again, my problem here is the curious correlation in time between co2, our industrial age, and a rise in temperature.

now, beyond all of that, we know that our dependence on fossil fuel, namely oil is just bad. We have options, we can claim that we are not responsible or we are incapable of change and from that mindset we offer ourselves no options, or we can claim even if it is false, that we are in control and there will be more likelyhood that we will be. so long as we claim we are helpless then we can be nothing other than helpless. We have the opportunity to master another segment of nature or we can simply go along for the ride.
 
Antidisestablishmentarian

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
You are making the same mistake so many others make, that if man doesn't directly record something then it isn't valid data. We have forensics, we can extrapolate from glacial cores, sea bottom cores, tree rings, peat cores and the like. Beyond that, we do not need a record of all earth history, only that for the last several hundred thousand years, perhaps a few million, the climate history before the present configuratio of the earth is meaningless to us.

Again, do you really think that natural global warming AND co2 increases starting at the beginning of the industrial revolution, given the cycles of the earth is a coincidence? That is quite a coincidence, that an entire global warming cycle started just as man begain buring fossil fuels.
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I appreciate the civility, but you are attributing thoughts to me I do not posess.

I just think we need more data.

I work in a field that requires data. So to me, less than .0000001% is practically meaningless.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
I appreciate the civility, but you are attributing thoughts to me I do not posess.

I just think we need more data.

I work in a field that requires data. So to me, less than .0000001% is practically meaningless.
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Sometimes a spare dataset contains much information. I am curious how you arrived at the number "six billion" As someone who works in a field that requires data, you will be familiar with the statistics of representative samples. cn
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Sometimes a spare dataset contains much information. I am curious how you arrived at the number "six billion" As someone who works in a field that requires data, you will be familiar with the statistics of representative samples. cn
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I am guessing that the 6 billion is the age of the earth in years.
 
Antidisestablishmentarian

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Sometimes a spare dataset contains much information. I am curious how you arrived at the number "six billion" As someone who works in a field that requires data, you will be familiar with the statistics of representative samples. cn
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And a lot of times it can't.

I am on a job right now where we had data saying something wasn't what we thought it was.

The problem with that was this: we did not have enough data.

We got our extra data, and lo an behold it was what we thought it was.

Fyi I work in the environmental industry. Rather not get into more specifics with that, I hope you understand why.

As for the 6 billion, yes, I am referring to the age of the earth.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
And a lot of times it can't.

I am on a job right now where we had data saying something wasn't what we thought it was.

The problem with that was this: we did not have enough data.

We got our extra data, and lo an behold it was what we thought it was.

Fyi I work in the environmental industry. Rather not get into more specifics with that, I hope you understand why.

As for the 6 billion, yes, I am referring to the age of the earth.
Click to expand...

But as I said there are far more data points than your claimed 117
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
And a lot of times it can't.

I am on a job right now where we had data saying something wasn't what we thought it was.

The problem with that was this: we did not have enough data.

We got our extra data, and lo an behold it was what we thought it was.

Fyi I work in the environmental industry. Rather not get into more specifics with that, I hope you understand why.

As for the 6 billion, yes, I am referring to the age of the earth.
Click to expand...
Current best estimate for the planet's age is 4.45 billion years.
As for your reticence to discuss your work, i completely understand. cn
 
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