CrackerJax
New Member
Everything is a surprise to liberals......
Julius at fcc wants to 'regulate' internet
- Thread starter Big P
- Start date
HHGTTG420
Well-Known Member
You seem to be missing a very important point in all this, in well over 80% of the US (I know, I know, citation needed) people are stuck with only one company for broadband internet. How can you switch to a competitor if
a) you can't afford or find wireless (cell) broadband in your area
b) you can't get DSL/Cable as an alternative to your Cable/DSL
c) your locked into one vendor at your home
I understand where you are coming from, however you seem to be missing one of the fundamental points of NN. Government already has a fair amount of control of the internet through dealings with 1st Tier network companies. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be anything in the law itself that gives the government anymore control it already has, though that may change.
Now, another debate aside from NN is who controls the root DNS servers (core DNS servers for the internet), http://www.cyberarmy.net/library/article/393. Its a pretty interesting read.
Something else to keep in mind, the original version of the internet (ARPAnet) was military created. A fair bit of traffic already goes through various government controlled facilities and that isn't even touching on the 'secret' rooms in companies like AT&T and such.
I don't think your points are invalid, but I do believe this is one of the extremely few cases where regulation is warranted given the few competitors to switch to. These wire-exclusivity agreements were created originally to PREVENT competition in areas for this exact reason and its partly why the government has stepped up. They have as much to lose as citizens do if the companies start blocking/throttling data due to business need/wants.
Think of how bad it would for government if during the last election Time Warner filtered links to anything discussing Obama in favor of McCain or if Comcast filtered anything GOP related, speech and all. This is one of the reasons it benefits the government as well.
We've already seen this type of crap with mainstream media, I get my news mostly on the internet because of BS like that. I don't want to have to worry that I can't read news in UK about Obama's failings because Comcast is a DNC supporter and doesn't want Obama to look bad.
Edit: to better re-enforce the point above, imagine if your limited to only viewpoint because of your ISP? You can't get to DrudgeReport but can get to DailyKos with no problem, or various legalization sites or hell even this board is unavailable because your ISP doesn't support the ideals. You can't find information about a football game because ESPN hasn't paid your ISP yet. Google refuses to pay a 'use fee' so instead your redirected to 'Road Runner Search' and nothing useful comes up. Etc...
Big P
Well-Known Member
see man you make my point clrealy, Net Nutrality is just code for "Fairness Doctrine of the internet"
the government is already trying to force successful conservative talk radio to pay fines so they can finace opposing view points on the radio which obviously were not popular as we saw in the dismal failure of air america. its a free country if wanna oppose and there a market for it then its easy
and now they will do the same with the internet!
if they really wanna fix the problem then they would make it so all internet users can switch to any campany they want in any location at anytime, bam! problem solved.
but they wont do that cuz then they wont have the power to force the fairness doctrine on us IE "Control the flow of our freedom of information"
just like Chavez, just like Putin, just like Amadinajad, just like castro and the list goes on
is it any surprise these socialist wolves in sheeps clothing are now try to do the same?
these guys are all pigs and should be lined up and shot with great fanfare,
but very good post u make many good points +rep
CrackerJax
New Member
Exactly Big P.
Again, the very idea that so many of you look to the federal govt. as the answer to social problems, let alone business ones (shudder), simply amazes and saddens me.
What's happened to education in this country?
Again, the very idea that so many of you look to the federal govt. as the answer to social problems, let alone business ones (shudder), simply amazes and saddens me.
What's happened to education in this country?
MexicanWarlord420
Active Member
Ya, you're right. We should just let these companies censor and you control what you do on the internet..
Because that's better than anything under the Obama administration that's helping you.
Screw free speech! We don't want net neutrality, we just want OUR country back!
Because that's better than anything under the Obama administration that's helping you.
Screw free speech! We don't want net neutrality, we just want OUR country back!
CrackerJax
New Member
The govt. wants to socialize the internet..... no thanks.
+Rep, Your absolutely right, the largest anti Obama people are blogging on the net, posting in forums and creating their very own web sites for all to see. Obama and his administartion does not like that so they will try to find a way to shut all the dissenters off, Of course it will be under the guise of "helping" the average citizen and all the Obama lovers will be all for it (London, Med the Enslaver, DoobnVA etc etc you know who you are)
HHGTTG420
Well-Known Member
See my view is a bit different. Unlike the fairness doctrine, I don't see NN as a way to force both viewpoints equally, just as a way to prevent one viewpoint from being quieted by a business that doesn't agree, more or less.
...and this is something you and I can both completely agree on! The "Fairness Doctrine" is a HORRIBLE idea. Hell, I'm more conservative than liberal (where is my wife is extreme-conservative) and I'm not a huge fan of Rush, Micheal, Bill O'rielly or many of the 'world is burning -- all liberals must die' types. HOWEVER, that doesn't give me the right to shut them down because I don't agree. That is for the MARKET to decide. There is a very good reason why most liberal-leaning talk shows are not doing that good, most of them suck to listen to.
I listen to four radio shows on XM related to politics; Quinn & Rose (conservative), Bill Bennett (conservative), Stand-up w/Pete Dominick (center/left) and Morning Briefing w/Tim Farley (center/left). While Q&R and Bill tend to get into some hatish-speech or general bs, they generally have extremely good, calm and well thought out points. Same on the other side with Pete & Tim on their shows. Sometimes they go way far-out left (like stating anyone who doesn't like cap'n'trade is an idiot...) but for the most part, they have good points with excellent discussion.
Ever listen to the Young Turks? Last time I did they spent a half-hour bitching about the birther movement when, as far as I can tell, it died a really REALLY long time ago. Every time I listen to America Left on XM or a lot of Left talk shows, I find more whining and complaining than I do on any of the conservative shows. To me that's a huge annoyance, especially when a lot of times they don't back what they say then yell at callers that call them out, except in a more whiny way then people like Rush, Mike or Bill.
The Fairness Doctrine needs to die a HORRIBLE death, its an extremely bad idea and an obvious "I don't like what they say so I'm gonna force people to listen to me" play.
BINGO! Sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon, its been tried for years and the best we got out of it is AOL on TimeWarner's lines. But wait, didn't TWC own AOL? Grrrr! But yes, this is a MUCH better idea than NN. The market SHOULD dictate what happens to the internet. I just don't have much faith in the government to do that much, at least with NN we get part of that right.
I can't say I agree with you on everything, I don't put a whole lot into people screaming "socialist," to me its the same as everyone screaming "war-monger" at Bush. I don't think Obama and his cabinet are anything like Chavez, Putin and the like. Even if he wanted to, I don't think he could. However, I don't trust him much either. He still hasn't provided much value (in my opinion) during his term, but he hasn't been in long either. I still don't understand the Nobel prize shit, well I do, but I mean wtf!?
When unions were first created, they were called communistic
When Medicare was created, it was called socialist
Now you have uninformed people screaming at the government that they don't want government control of Medicare! Seriously that was pretty fucked up... On the same token, I don't believe the tea parties were just Republican and Healthcare orchestrated events. Sure, both have a large part to play but generally people don't like what is being proposed and the government isn't being clear about whats being offered, they are trying to shove all this BS down our throats.
At any-rate I tend to get pretty long winded. I enjoy debates on topics like this with people that will listen, think and give feedback. It pisses me off when I talk with people from either side of the spectrum that have their beliefs so etched into their head from others that they won't even listen to what someone else believes.
I have friends that think Rush is god and everything he says is golden and others that believe Obama is the second messiah. I don't know how many times I've felt like slapping them all. lol
+rep man, I enjoy talkin with ya.
I would rather the ISP's try to do what they want, if they screw with our content then we will stop using them and stop paying them and they will go out of business and no longer be a threat to us. Thats how a free market works, the government always tries to get into things by saying it is for the best of intentions and for the good of the people, but eventually it gets corrupt and its regulations are henceforth used to further the agenda.
HHGTTG420
Well-Known Member
First, I want to say I was writing a really good post to discuss what you and crackerjack said and my freakin computer locked up. Probably cause It was getting long and well, my computer hates me. I'll try to be short in this one.
I agree with you to a point. See, I view NN as a way to fix a previous government fuckup due to lobbyists. One of the main reasons for lack of competition had to do with lobbyists protecting their own companies interests while the internet was young and it wasn't projected to grow on the scale it has. I view this as a patch on a huge problem that needs to be addressed. Since it was protections given by the government, I believe they should fix their own mess. The reason this is all fucked up is because of government interference in the first place, otherwise free-market would have fixed this issue looooong ago.
CrackerJax said:
Its gone to shit, that's what happened to it. We used to have one of the BEST educational systems in the world. Now, kids are rewarded for just doing what they are supposed to. They are not held accountable anymore for their own actions and are being babied when they fail. No, we can't give Fs or 0s, we have to pat them on the back and tell them they made a "poor choice." This pisses me off to no end!!! I tell my daughter that she failed when she fails. It doesn't hurt her feelings, it makes her determined and she tries harder. I also tell her what I believe, without failure you can't succeed. We LEARN through failure, but these days schools don't want that. You might hurt their feelings if you tell them they failed! If they keep this up, we are in a WORLD of hurt in the future.
I actually tried to make a difference personally, volunteering in the schools and letting people know how I felt. It got me kicked out of PTA because I said our kids need failure. I wasn't 'productively helping the parent teacher alliance' by saying such a thing. Seriously, parents got pissed off that I even suggested their kids could fail. While Kids are Kids, they can handle the truth. They won't get psychological trauma if they get an F. I got Fs, I don't feel 'damaged' because of it. I'm successful now because of my failures. They made me into a better person.
Your computer locking up is a Union thing, watch the movie or read the book by Stephen King called Maximum Overdrive.
I totally agree with you on the school thing, I have twin daughters and they are both in the very same classroom, they both have straight A's. I find this very hard to believe as 1 of them is a lazy ass who wouldn't know what homework was if it bit her in the ass, while the other one is a very very hard worker and deserves the A. I brought this up to their teacher and she basically said " Your Complaining that your daughter is getting an A", she didn't have anything else to say but to try and berate me for complaining. Sometimes the teachers themselves should be the ones getting the grades.
CrackerJax
New Member
It's a typical liberal ploy.... want to make kids smarter?.... lower the grade bar.
Making kids smart is uber easy then.....
Making kids smart is uber easy then.....
CrackerJax
New Member
exactly. Take away calculators and any straight A kid form the 1800's would clean the clock of any honor role student today.
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
It's worth a bump.
The Trump administration said Sunday it will sue California in an effort to block what some experts have described as the toughest net neutrality law ever enacted in the United States, setting up a high-stakes legal showdown over the future of the Internet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...ew-net-neutrality-law/?utm_term=.2bce52319bb1
A California fire department that’s repeatedly had its mobile data speeds throttled by Verizon while responding to wildfires, rendering devices virtually unusable, has submitted its experience as evidence in support of a lawsuit to restore net neutrality at the federal level.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ed-net-neutrality_us_5b7d7346e4b0348585fc755c
..so a few people die.
The Trump administration said Sunday it will sue California in an effort to block what some experts have described as the toughest net neutrality law ever enacted in the United States, setting up a high-stakes legal showdown over the future of the Internet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...ew-net-neutrality-law/?utm_term=.2bce52319bb1
A California fire department that’s repeatedly had its mobile data speeds throttled by Verizon while responding to wildfires, rendering devices virtually unusable, has submitted its experience as evidence in support of a lawsuit to restore net neutrality at the federal level.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ed-net-neutrality_us_5b7d7346e4b0348585fc755c
..so a few people die.
