Justified?

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
rzza said:
i dont think your using the term 'justified' properly here, it doesnt even make sence. whats the case you speak of in ohio?
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i think they are reffering to kent state, which was less grey area and more fucked up. soldiers basdically gunned down unarmed protesters on a college campus. some that were killed were just on their way to class....ever heard the song 'four dead in ohio'? it's about kent state.

is a rock thrown by a 15 year old from as far away as he was in the video a 'deadly projectile'? i don't think so. also, he had backup officers literally seconds away!

let's try not to inject the illegal immigration issue into this debate, as the kid who was shot was not an illegal, he was gunned down on mexican soil. ths issue here is not how you feel about illegals, it is whether or not deadly force was justified.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
rzza said:
whats the case you speak of in ohio?
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Kent State in Ohio, the Nat Guard killed 4, wounded 8 and paralyzed 1. Most of the students killed and injured were just innocent people walking to class who were not involved with any protest and were absolutely no harm to anyone. They fired 67 shots into the crowd in 13 seconds.

I am not scared of kids throwing rocks, especially when I got my Roscoe. That BP agent should not have been such a pussy IMO.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
no the border patrol guard was NOT in danger.

if the police were justified in using lethal force everytime rocks were thrown at them, there would be hundreds of deaths a year in the US from drunk folks going home after sports games. i've never left a home-game where the home team won, and NOT seen drunk-ass people throw rocks, bottles, flares, and more at cops....

i've never seen cops start shooting their fellow americans cause their being pelted with rocks...

i've seen americans shoot at foreign kids for fun too many times. videos of soldiers in iraq practicng shooting a 50 caliber rifle, shooting at local's herds of goats, videos of americans offering iraqui's food, then throwing it in the mud, laughing, border patrol agents killing kids running away...... then americans wonder why the rest of the world despises us.....:roll::roll:


he shot and killed ACCROSS THE BORDER. the guy was already out of his jurisdiction, the kid was going BACK TO MEXICO!!!!!!

his job is to prevent people from entering the US, not chase them down all the way back to mexico and kill them.

if he would've let off a warning shot letting the kids know he's not playing.... but no. he just killed a mexican because he didn't care, because it was a stupid wetback trying to cross the border.

i hope that agent looses his job, looses his pension, and i hope a drunk illegal immigrant runs him over and kills him.... KARMA.
bongsmiliebongsmilie
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Cops are not supposed to be firing warning shots! This isn't fucking hollywood people! Anybody who knows anything about firearms knows just how dangerous this is. :roll:

As for the 15 year old being shot...........I wasn't there but it seems pretty fucked up. I agree that the kid shouldn't have been throwing rocks at armed men but I'm not sure this warrants the use of deadly force. It's hard to tell from the video exactly what is going on. Either way it's a shame that this kid was killed. My condolences go to the family. :peace:
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Cops are not supposed to be firing warning shots! This isn't fucking hollywood people! Anybody who knows anything about firearms knows just how dangerous this is. :roll:

As for the 15 year old being shot...........I wasn't there but it seems pretty fucked up. I agree that the kid shouldn't have been throwing rocks at armed men but I'm not sure this warrants the use of deadly force. It's hard to tell from the video exactly what is going on. Either way it's a shame that this kid was killed. My condolences go to the family. :peace:
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Thank you Doc, I was going to say this. You never fire a weapon in warning.
 
SmokeyMcSmokester

SmokeyMcSmokester

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
no the border patrol guard was NOT in danger.

if the police were justified in using lethal force everytime rocks were thrown at them, there would be hundreds of deaths a year in the US from drunk folks going home after sports games. i've never left a home-game where the home team won, and NOT seen drunk-ass people throw rocks, bottles, flares, and more at cops....

i've never seen cops start shooting their fellow americans cause their being pelted with rocks...

i've seen americans shoot at foreign kids for fun too many times. videos of soldiers in iraq practicng shooting a 50 caliber rifle, shooting at local's herds of goats, videos of americans offering iraqui's food, then throwing it in the mud, laughing, border patrol agents killing kids running away...... then americans wonder why the rest of the world despises us.....:roll::roll:


he shot and killed ACCROSS THE BORDER. the guy was already out of his jurisdiction, the kid was going BACK TO MEXICO!!!!!!

his job is to prevent people from entering the US, not chase them down all the way back to mexico and kill them.

if he would've let off a warning shot letting the kids know he's not playing.... but no. he just killed a mexican because he didn't care, because it was a stupid wetback trying to cross the border.

i hope that agent looses his job, looses his pension, and i hope a drunk illegal immigrant runs him over and kills him.... KARMA.
bongsmiliebongsmilie
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if you throw a rock at a cop in vegas they will shoot you dead and get 6 weeks paid vacation.

back on topic..hate to say it, but he was justified...flip the role if someone was sneaking into mexico the same way, the federalis would do the same shit..but it would probably be an automatic weapon..point is..this is a sovereign country..we have every right to protect our borders from people sneaking in. i dont know why this is such a touchy topic. COME IN LEGALLY AND THERE WONT BE A PROBLEM!!!!
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
you're wrong.

warning shots are pretty common when facing a potentially deadly situation with foreign nationals, i was taught this by a family member who was an Army Ranger. i trust his word better than a firearms safety manual. the language barrier exists, and screaming doesn't cut it.... but hey, if you think shooting this kid in the chest is better than shooting at his feet... then ok....... but:

you don't shoot a kid that's running away...

his life was not in danger. no matter what he tries to sell. there was plenty of space between him and the kids, there were like 2 or 3 people throwing stones, if that, there was no multitude of people, you can hear maybe 12 people on the video commenting, none of the voices that can be clearly heard are threatening or belittleing the guard, i know this because i'm one of hte few americans that actually reads, writes and speaks spanish.... they were already headed back to mexico. he had no reason to pursue, except to look for blood.....
 
Balzac89

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
It was obvious that he was just trying to stop the people. The thing is the people who got away did not leave. Instead they turned around and began to attack the officer with rocks. They had no reason to throw rocks at an officer that was doing his job, they were in no way threatened by the officer until they attacked him.

If you just google attacks on border patrol you will see the escalation that is takign place down there.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
you're wrong.

warning shots are pretty common when facing a potentially deadly situation with foreign nationals, i was taught this by a family member who was an Army Ranger. i trust his word better than a firearms safety manual. the language barrier exists, and screaming doesn't cut it.... but hey, if you think shooting this kid in the chest is better than shooting at his feet... then ok....... but:

you don't shoot a kid that's running away...

his life was not in danger. no matter what he tries to sell. there was plenty of space between him and the kids, there were like 2 or 3 people throwing stones, if that, there was no multitude of people, you can hear maybe 12 people on the video commenting, none of the voices that can be clearly heard are threatening or belittleing the guard, i know this because i'm one of hte few americans that actually reads, writes and speaks spanish.... they were already headed back to mexico. he had no reason to pursue, except to look for blood.....
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I'm sorry but I was attached to a recon battallion and never in my 8 years of military training did I ever train to do anything other than shoot to kill. I can't speak for the army but warning shots definitely aren't taught to police which is essentially what a BP agent is, not a special forces soldier. Ask any cop and they'll tell you that you never use a firearm for anything other than deadly force. Cops aren't supposed to shoot to wound, they are trained to shoot to kill..........period!:blsmoke:

You're good at putting words in people's mouths. I never said it was preferable to shoot this kid in the chest. In fact if you read my first post in the thread you'll see that I lean towards disagreeing with the shooting. I wasn't there and the video isn't very revealing so I can't say for sure but either way it's incredibly tragic.
 
SmokeyMcSmokester

SmokeyMcSmokester

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
you're wrong.

warning shots are pretty common when facing a potentially deadly situation with foreign nationals, i was taught this by a family member who was an Army Ranger. i trust his word better than a firearms safety manual. the language barrier exists, and screaming doesn't cut it.... but hey, if you think shooting this kid in the chest is better than shooting at his feet... then ok....... but:

you don't shoot a kid that's running away...

his life was not in danger. no matter what he tries to sell. there was plenty of space between him and the kids, there were like 2 or 3 people throwing stones, if that, there was no multitude of people, you can hear maybe 12 people on the video commenting, none of the voices that can be clearly heard are threatening or belittleing the guard, i know this because i'm one of hte few americans that actually reads, writes and speaks spanish.... they were already headed back to mexico. he had no reason to pursue, except to look for blood.....
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ummm check again buddy..warning shots are never advised...
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
bcbong92 said:
I'd say he probably justified to shoot him, but could have also avoided killing him, considering a rock obviously isn't that dangerous and also it said that they were throwing rocks in their direction, they never actually said they hit the officer, which probably means that they didn't. Couldn't really tell too much from the video. If that is true then I don't think its right. And at the same time when soldiers murdered students in ohio for protesting in the 70s, i would look past a texas border guard doing the same to a mexican now...
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I beg to differ on the rock not being dangerous.

I put the next door girl in a coma fro 2 weeks from hitting her in the head with a rock.

I almost killed that poor girl.,The cop did what he needeed to do.

Kid is kinda stupid to be trowing rocks at a armed person in the first place.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
i've actually switched camps over the last few days and now i say: justified.

despite the facts that:

the agent had a protective helmet on
even without a helmet, a rock is likely not deadly from that distance
a backup agent was literaly 12 seconds away

you simply can't throw rocks at LEOs and expect no repercussion.

i wish the BP had the sense to arm their agents with rubber bullets for situations like this, where lethal force is borderline/questionable.

despite all the justifications i made to myself, i still couldn't get past the following argument: 'get 3 friends together and go throw a rock at a local police officer, and see what happens'.

i'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong, and i'm glad to see the responses were all civil and relevant to the OP
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
you're wrong.

warning shots are pretty common when facing a potentially deadly situation with foreign nationals, i was taught this by a family member who was an Army Ranger. i trust his word better than a firearms safety manual. the language barrier exists, and screaming doesn't cut it.... but hey, if you think shooting this kid in the chest is better than shooting at his feet... then ok....... but:

you don't shoot a kid that's running away...

his life was not in danger. no matter what he tries to sell. there was plenty of space between him and the kids, there were like 2 or 3 people throwing stones, if that, there was no multitude of people, you can hear maybe 12 people on the video commenting, none of the voices that can be clearly heard are threatening or belittleing the guard, i know this because i'm one of hte few americans that actually reads, writes and speaks spanish.... they were already headed back to mexico. he had no reason to pursue, except to look for blood.....
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The kid was shot in the head above the eye, was he walking backwards? You make alot of assumptions based off of one grainy video or two with limited points of view.
 
kendothegreenwizard

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Here is a translation
According to CNN, witnesses can he heard on the video, in Spanish, saying "they're throwing rocks" as well as "they hit him... they hit him."

So the witnesses in this video establish that not only was he throwing rocks at the agent but the he was hit with rocks as well.
You can say that rocks don't do damage all you want but I say let me throw rocks at your head then.
Rocks acn kill and maim and if the Illegals think they can get away with throwing rocks then they will just as the kids dis here. THey think nothing is gonna happen and yhat they can assault and injure American agents. THey damn sure don't throw rocks at the Mexican police because they will get their asses kicked.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
kendothegreenwizard said:
Here is a translation
According to CNN, witnesses can he heard on the video, in Spanish, saying "they're throwing rocks" as well as "they hit him... they hit him."

So the witnesses in this video establish that not only was he throwing rocks at the agent but the he was hit with rocks as well.
You can say that rocks don't do damage all you want but I say let me throw rocks at your head then.
Rocks acn kill and maim and if the Illegals think they can get away with throwing rocks then they will just as the kids dis here. THey think nothing is gonna happen and yhat they can assault and injure American agents. THey damn sure don't throw rocks at the Mexican police because they will get their asses kicked.
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If you got hit in the eye with a piece of gravel it could detach your retina and end your career. I just cannot get over people who think rocks being thrown at them are no big deal.
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
at least he got a chance to throw a rock, ........................


careful, you might not want to watch this, ......

[video=youtube;eZTbJH6BNaU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTbJH6BNaU&feature=related[/video]
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
at least he got a chance to throw a rock, ........................


careful, you might not want to watch this, ......

[video=youtube;eZTbJH6BNaU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTbJH6BNaU&feature=related[/video]
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Fucking piece of shit murdering cop! :cuss:

That cop executed that kid.............it was totally uncalled for.:evil:
 
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