Larry OG vs. Tahoe OG in Dual Monster Plant System (2nd Scrog)

frotastic said:

Well I didn't notice the broad mites until flower, and it basically makes the pistils start to die as soon as they pop out of the calyx. It's pretty sad looking, here's a pic of the white urkle at day 23 flower.
View attachment 2006386

At least a couple people on a different site immediately identified it as broad mites just from the pic of the white urkle flower (a couple people said TMV but that was quickly shot down as being untrue/impossible)

edit: I should mention that I did verify the broad mites by seeing the eggs with my microscope, 30x and just barely able to see them, and after a long time looking at leaves for eggs I eventually saw a little guy run across the view of my microscope

Now I'm at day 39 flower and they still sort of look like that...I also have larry x bubba from PO which seems to also have the broad mites because they have basically never had any fresh pistils coming out of the flowers but are still growing trichomes (kind of confusing to me). The flowers are also extremely tiny, almost no growth in size after week 2 or so (I think another sign of broad mites). Here's a pic of the larry x bubba at day 29 flower, and despite the size it looks frosty enough for my standards (I might just make tons of BHO) so I'm not too angry overall-
View attachment 2006393

And the tahoe seems fine for some reason! View attachment 2006395
At day 39 the flowers almost look like miniature versions of your last grow (keyword: almost), so I'm very excited!!!

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frotastic said:

I forgot to mention any way to get rid of this, because I talked to the PO staff and got some info:

I can't remember if you already sprayed/dipped your clones, and if so just disregard the rest of this - I'm not trying to tell you what to do since you are LORDjin: but the PO staff made it seem like there were a number of products you can use in veg preventatively to be sure you don't have these (or any) critters. I didn't realize I had them until flower so I'm kind of screwed, I'm using Mighty wash and crossing my fingers.

But based on what they and others said, it's really easy to take care of in veg with stuff like neem-based products (or other oil-based sprays) and it gives you a nice protective layer. They also mentioned hotshot no pest strips if you want to really kill them dead, but I grow in my bedroom closet so I was worried about killing myself also. They were also talking about products like avid and forbid, but I think that's only if you know you have them because that stuff is serious and expensive-

Anyways I'm not saying you have them, I'm not sure how to tell during veg (other than with a good microscope and seeing the bumpy eggs), but I don't think spraying neem hurts anything during veg (please someone correct me if this is wrong)

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Hey, I was doing some research about the pests associated with PO's cuts and google led me right to my own journal! Lol. Apparently I discussed it briefly with another user back in January (see above).

So I was cruising the threads and reading about various insects and am shocked and horrified by broad mites. HORRIFIED.

These are very tiny.

How tiny? Look how big they make a white fly look. GROSS.


And as Fro mentioned above, the tell-tale sign is the plant's inability to grow hairs or pistils during flower as exhibited in this Casey Jones plant I found online:

Completely conistent with Fro's diangnosis above. And what's even more disturbing is that the actual user from Grass city who posted this pic said once broad mites have attacked your buds, they're rendered unsmokable.

The best treatment is no treatment.

Man, I went through two full bottles of this stuff fighting the powdery mildew last time. Fucking soaked the shit out of ALL my buds repeatedly.

Now at the time I was thinking the product was completely safe because my plants seemed to shake off the smell and looked even healthier after a spraying.... But alas anything extreme isn't desirable, so for me to think that they didn't suffer in the least from this aggressive serenade treatment would be delusional.

The stuff worked well, but I'm glad to leave it alone this time. Going the sterile route seems to have taken care of everything.

So having said that, I'm really happy to report that my grow is clean this time. No PM, and certainly no broad mites, and no soaking with Serenade. Should result in a nicer finish.

i agree, and yes buds with broad mites will be more than likely unsmokable i have seen the worse case scenarios and eggs pop and sizzle, crackle, and you got fireworks going on, and it can ruin the taste if fairly run down, i would say broad mites are much worse than spidermite as they attack the new plant cells, and secrete their own mucus and shit....not nice. i would say yeah make hash....and hope for the best. oil would be my choice

edit: Morning all!

flowamasta said:

i agree, and yes buds with broad mites will be more than likely unsmokable i have seen the worse case scenarios and eggs pop and sizzle, crackle, and you got fireworks going on, and it can ruin the taste if fairly run down, i would say broad mites are much worse than spidermite as they attack the new plant cells, and secrete their own mucus and shit....not nice. i would say yeah make hash....and hope for the best. oil would be my choice

edit: Morning all!

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Oh, Gross. That just gave me the gross shivers... eggs popping and crackling in the bowl? NASTY!

Edit:
Good Late Afternoon!

lordjin said:

Oh, Gross. That just gave me the gross shivers... eggs popping and crackling in the bowl? NASTY!

Edit:
Good Late Afternoon!

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lol, down here in Australia mate, back in the day, i remember smokin whateva we could get! i think ive nearly seen it all, or smoked it all! the crpa that is, its only nowdayz i can finally smoke my own quality here is my collection, i won't go into exactly whats in the jars, but it's a mighty fine cocktail, and i KNOW you would love any 1 of these cause i only keep good stuff, and i make hash and oil outta average, and small stuff, the new outdoor batch is the 2 large jars on the right, my little bright red jar is whats left from my last indoor girl, and the rest is a cocktail of goodliness, oh that little jar is my Fave, sparkley goodness in there. nigh night bedtime stuff in there

[/IMG]

and that is a bowl full of the fattest calyxs i could find off the stems off all the main heads....yum, u need to try a bowl full of them, smooth and killer

[/IMG]

flowamasta said:

lol, down here in Australia mate, back in the day, i remember smokin whateva we could get! i think ive nearly seen it all, or smoked it all! the crpa that is, its only nowdayz i can finally smoke my own quality here is my collection, i won't go into exactly whats in the jars, but it's a mighty fine cocktail, and i KNOW you would love any 1 of these cause i only keep good stuff, and i make hash and oil outta average, and small stuff, the new outdoor batch is the 2 large jars on the right, my little bright red jar is whats left from my last indoor girl, and the rest is a cocktail of goodliness, oh that little jar is my Fave, sparkley goodness in there. nigh night bedtime stuff in there

[/IMG]

and that is a bowl full of the fattest calyxs i could find off the stems off all the main heads....yum, u need to try a bowl full of them, smooth and killer

[/IMG]

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The one covered in red hair reminds me of something I smoked once called "Hindu Mountain."

Hey LJ - I have a nute question. What exactly are you using and what are your amounts in ml? How much water are you running? I did a res change today and I will have a full report with pictures later.

Mohican said:

Hey LJ - I have a nute question. What exactly are you using and what are your amounts in ml? How much water are you running? I did a res change today and I will have a full report with pictures later.

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I'm running Advanced Nutrients Sensi. Grow AB & Bloom AB. I supplement with nothing but calmag and h202 in veg. In flower I supplement with nothing but Kushie Kush, h202, and calmag.

I normally start young clones at right around 100-300ppm depending on the size. I'll increase feed according to the speed of their growth. I wish there was a set formula I used every time that I could easily refer to, but much of my feeding is done intuitively case by case.

Some strains feed like pigs and never burn while other strains you don't want to even show the nute bottle to. My last run, the plants were smaller because they couldn't tolerate high feedings. This current grow can tolerate more, so I've been going significantly heavier this time around.... hence the leaf burn and larger plant size.

As a specific example, I was right around 600ppm right now last time, I'm currently at 700ppm. May not seem like a big difference, but if you're running a really active system like mine, a little bit makes a difference.

LIKE LIKE LIKE!

Thanks LJ!
I know what you mean. I did the res change because I was sure I was burning this girl. I put way less in the res and I am at 900ppm! Good news is that she seems to be doing better. More detailed info when I post my report.

It is so hard to judge how she is doing because these lights mess with what I see. When I turn them off she is really dark green! How do you read your girls?

Cheers,
Mo

Edit: Have you ever used Superthrive?

Hey Jin!! Glad to see you brought back the broad mites discussion, because it's best to hear about it before it happens to you!

And I have to put in my $ .02 about the bud being "unsmokable" after broad mites have gotten into your plants. The broad mites cause your plants to basically stop growing buds, or keeps them from growing buds at all (which would make the plant not smokable, since there's nothing to smoke but leaves). Since they're too small to see with your eyes you have to figure it out based on how the buds look. BUT if you get rid of them quickly enough the buds will start to grow back. At some point I'll try to post a pic of my final product of the plant (white urkle) that got hit with broad mites the worst. Definitely still smokable buds, just not nearly as full-sized or potent (but I can't be sure the low potency was just due to genetics). I used a product called 'mighty wash' which is supposedly safe on flowers, and I noticed that after about 3 applications the buds started to grow again. It was too close to the end of my grow, already week 6 flower I think, but I think if I had just let them continue to flower then they might have recovered somewhat.

ALSO something interesting to note, I had tahoe growing right next to the white urkle that got crushed by broad mites (in a scrog, mind you), and the tahoe has ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNS of broad mite damage....explain that one!


Anyways the plants look amazing!!! Can't wait to see if the larry ends up beating out the tahoe in potency-

frotastic said:

Hey Jin!! Glad to see you brought back the broad mites discussion, because it's best to hear about it before it happens to you!

And I have to put in my $ .02 about the bud being "unsmokable" after broad mites have gotten into your plants. The broad mites cause your plants to basically stop growing buds, or keeps them from growing buds at all (which would make the plant not smokable, since there's nothing to smoke but leaves). Since they're too small to see with your eyes you have to figure it out based on how the buds look. BUT if you get rid of them quickly enough the buds will start to grow back. At some point I'll try to post a pic of my final product of the plant (white urkle) that got hit with broad mites the worst. Definitely still smokable buds, just not nearly as full-sized or potent (but I can't be sure the low potency was just due to genetics). I used a product called 'mighty wash' which is supposedly safe on flowers, and I noticed that after about 3 applications the buds started to grow again. It was too close to the end of my grow, already week 6 flower I think, but I think if I had just let them continue to flower then they might have recovered somewhat.

ALSO something interesting to note, I had tahoe growing right next to the white urkle that got crushed by broad mites (in a scrog, mind you), and the tahoe has ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNS of broad mite damage....explain that one!


Anyways the plants look amazing!!! Can't wait to see if the larry ends up beating out the tahoe in potency-

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Ah, there you are. I was doing stoned pest research this morning and fucking google pointed me to my earlier discussion with you! How funny is that? I was all, "Larry OG vs Tahoe OG in Dual Monster Plant System? Now who the fuck would come up with a title like that?" Lol.

I had a nightmare about bugs last night. That's why I was doing the research.

Yes, please share further details of your results with us.

Why did they leave one plant alone and attack the other? Could it be a strain preference? Lol.

Just wanted to say the thing about PO & their bugs is they do get clones/strains from people. It would be entirely possible a clone u or I buy from them they didnt cut or grow. Therefore they have no actual knowledge of the strain/bugs/PM/etc. So id grab something known that they have their own moms of. They have admittedly gotten & distributed pests before. I'd be kinda hard not to tho in all fairness when not only dealing with lots of other growers daily but taking plants in from them also.

That being said I love them, and im gonna post their website here since ive seen a few people on here say "Whats PO?". They are the place to get elite cuts, not like the tude is gonna mail me one of Swerves Tahoe OG's but PO happily sold me 1 for $14! Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better/cheaper/more guaranteed than seeds!


http://www.pogenetics.com/

LIKE

wanted to say the thing about PO & their bugs is they do get clones/strains from people. It would be entirely possible a clone u or I buy from them they didnt cut or grow. Therefore they have no actual knowledge of the strain/bugs/PM/etc. So id grab something known that they have their own moms of. They have admittedly gotten & distributed pests before. I'd be kinda hard not to tho in all fairness when not only dealing with lots of other growers daily but taking plants in from them also.

That being said I love them, and im gonna post their website here since ive seen a few people on here say "Whats PO?". They are the place to get elite cuts, not like the tude is gonna mail me one of Swerves Tahoe OG's but PO happily sold me 1 for $14! Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better/cheaper/more guaranteed than seeds!

http://www.pogenetics.com/

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I need to do this next time!

some strains are more pest resistant than others, on most of the seed sites, they say that in the profile. i noticed the 2 clones that are flowering in my yard, the white flies dont land on at all, they seem do stay clear from it, but my strain, they looooooove, i'm forever finding them buzzing around my strain i even have seen white flies twice in my indoor grow!!, but they dont seem do do that much damage in small numbers, i think some plants give off attractants to lure them to certain strains. most certainly strain related i would think...
When i was saying before that mite ridden buds being unsmokable, i was referring to the worst cases, and they can attack in the last few weeks of flowering, and lay eggs, and do all sorts, just cause u cant see it with your naked eye, trust me, shits there, if u had bugs, there is going to be traces, and tastes, and contaminants. but in saying that, ive smoked plenty of bush, and not cared if there was a bug, and yeah, ive had my fair share of bad tasting bowls in the past!! i thourogly inspect my outdoor buds when i do my final manicure, oh BTW i got 154 grams off my 2 outdoor plants!!!....in 3 months growing outside

We bought a couple of OG clones from a guy here in town, and it turned out they had spider mites. (!) I sprayed my plants down entirely top to bpttom, bottom to top for 4 weeks with a neem oil mixture. I am now past week 5 of flower, and so far, so good. They only liked the OGs, though I saw a couple on the master bubbas. I was on it real quick, which helped. Lesson learned in getting plants from somewhere unknown. But... the OGs are looking really good; been giving them calmag with their nutes, and they seem to be happier. Debating whether I should cut off the fan leaves with the mag deficiency; might do that next time I get to the back of the tent.

I looked at the PO site and saw all of the OG options. How can I tell which strain I'm growing?

Lordjin... been meaning to tell you after seeing your update pics... I have bud envy.

I went in and did some pruning. I got so covered in sticky smelly goo that I almost cried....and I realized that I have a major sagging with weight issue already.

They're really starting to pour out now.

For the life of me, I could not get that sticky shit off my hands. It used to be fun as a noob, now I just hate it. You can't do anything when your fingers stick together like that.

I already applied a 'pull-up' tie to two key Tahoe branches. I need more cotton string. I'll photograph the tie-job for the part II update.

In short, these plants are fuckin' starting to scare me.

A real glue factory. Real horror show.

Honestly, I don't think PM or a single broad mite could survive in there. It almost killed me. This is potency of Another Kind.

Fuck gloves ur gonna need one of these! Looking freaky mate!

AzCannaMan said:

Just wanted to say the thing about PO & their bugs is they do get clones/strains from people. It would be entirely possible a clone u or I buy from them they didnt cut or grow. Therefore they have no actual knowledge of the strain/bugs/PM/etc. So id grab something known that they have their own moms of. They have admittedly gotten & distributed pests before. I'd be kinda hard not to tho in all fairness when not only dealing with lots of other growers daily but taking plants in from them also.

That being said I love them, and im gonna post their website here since ive seen a few people on here say "Whats PO?". They are the place to get elite cuts, not like the tude is gonna mail me one of Swerves Tahoe OG's but PO happily sold me 1 for $14! Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better/cheaper/more guaranteed than seeds!


http://www.pogenetics.com/

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Hey, I love PO too! And I would be remiss if I didn't thank 323cheezy - first for pointing the place out, and second for bringing the cuts to me.

I believe that pests and disease can be proactively treated and avoided altogether without a single pull of the foliar-spray trigger. My 'clean root' theory is panning out perfectly. Not a trace of PM.

flowamasta said:

some strains are more pest resistant than others, on most of the seed sites, they say that in the profile. i noticed the 2 clones that are flowering in my yard, the white flies dont land on at all, they seem do stay clear from it, but my strain, they looooooove, i'm forever finding them buzzing around my strain i even have seen white flies twice in my indoor grow!!, but they dont seem do do that much damage in small numbers, i think some plants give off attractants to lure them to certain strains. most certainly strain related i would think...
When i was saying before that mite ridden buds being unsmokable, i was referring to the worst cases, and they can attack in the last few weeks of flowering, and lay eggs, and do all sorts, just cause u cant see it with your naked eye, trust me, shits there, if u had bugs, there is going to be traces, and tastes, and contaminants. but in saying that, ive smoked plenty of bush, and not cared if there was a bug, and yeah, ive had my fair share of bad tasting bowls in the past!! i thourogly inspect my outdoor buds when i do my final manicure, oh BTW i got 154 grams off my 2 outdoor plants!!!....in 3 months growing outside

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You're the man, bro. I would not know what to do with a pest as I've had zero experience with them... being all sterile and indoors and all.

But it's def good to have your knowledge and experience around.

Green eggs and Pam said:

We bought a couple of OG clones from a guy here in town, and it turned out they had spider mites. (!) I sprayed my plants down entirely top to bpttom, bottom to top for 4 weeks with a neem oil mixture. I am now past week 5 of flower, and so far, so good. They only liked the OGs, though I saw a couple on the master bubbas. I was on it real quick, which helped. Lesson learned in getting plants from somewhere unknown. But... the OGs are looking really good; been giving them calmag with their nutes, and they seem to be happier. Debating whether I should cut off the fan leaves with the mag deficiency; might do that next time I get to the back of the tent.

I looked at the PO site and saw all of the OG options. How can I tell which strain I'm growing?

Lordjin... been meaning to tell you after seeing your update pics... I have bud envy.

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Thanks! I'm sure your OG will be fine. Cut the damaged leaves off, leave 'em on... won't make that much of a difference.

wow u really did dose them with nutes! don't worry so did i lol, nice job jin' "job" for sure u have got a mass of branches there, u are going to go crazy bending them this way and that way, heck i say if you have to grow branches sidewayz, do it, i have and the heads have been masterpieces with the ends curlin toward the light, that would be crazy, and it may help you with the space you are working with, let some fall over, they will love you for it, wow, that cab must be smelling so beautiful, it stinks more where the ac is pumpin air around yeah?? i bet .......jealous i am.

good luck sorting them branches out and tip on sticky fingers!.....dont waste that stickiness, rub some olive oil on your finger, rub it around and suck it up, if you got clean hands without cat hairs on them it will dissolve in the olive oil and makes it easier to clean hands after.

LoadedGreen said:

Fuck gloves ur gonna need one of these! Looking freaky mate!

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Oh... why can't I "like?"

flowamasta said:

wow u really did dose them with nutes! don't worry so did i lol, nice job jin' "job" for sure u have got a mass of branches there, u are going to go crazy bending them this way and that way, heck i say if you have to grow branches sidewayz, do it, i have and the heads have been masterpieces with the ends curlin toward the light, that would be crazy, and it may help you with the space you are working with, let some fall over, they will love you for it, wow, that cab must be smelling so beautiful, it stinks more where the ac is pumpin air around yeah?? i bet .......jealous i am.

good luck sorting them branches out and tip on sticky fingers!.....dont waste that stickiness, rub some olive oil on your finger, rub it around and suck it up, if you got clean hands without cat hairs on them it will dissolve in the olive oil and makes it easier to clean hands after.

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Fuck yeah. I like to call it "surgical burning." So here's Flower - Day 31 Part II for ya.

Speaking of "surgical burning," here's a good example of it on the tie photo below. Wherever you see that edge burning, it's Tahoe. Larry, the smaller plant, took it much better.

This branch is tied to one of the metal tabs on the cabinet body. A smaller Tahoe branch is tied to it. These two branches were forcing Larry to lay down a bit too much. Propping them up helped a lot.

And we have a smaller "Queen of Larry" happening on the weak side. Look at her Tahoe subjects.


A nice canopy shot.

And here's a closer look at that Larry cola on the right side.

And in case you're wondering, yes, this is some of the fastest calyx swelling I've seen. And as gorgeous as Larry is, Tahoe has more trichs.

And here's a look at the underside of that Tahoe branch I had to tie. Amazing.

Oh, and Kids? Leave the 'surgical burning' to the old-hands. Right, FM?

Maximizing yield... it's the only way. Now remember, I'm no longer a leaf destroyer, but a surgical leaf burner? Some things you can never get out of your blood entirely.