LED+CFL Closet Coco grow

nice plant.

So the leaves look terrible... The buds appear to be okay, by okay I mean still growing rapidly. But many of the pistils are turning brown orange. Is she okay guys? Just snapped these with my point and shoot, probably better quality pics tomorrow I mixed a nutrient solution and fed her a bit this morning before I read post about flushing The jug in the photo was full and you can see how much I gave her by how much is missing 2.5 gal jug. Not sure flush will be an option though... I just tied all the branches up to the tent with fishing line, took like 4 hours today, I'm a little worried. Ideas?

nute burn..

i would try a flush?.. i hear in coco its best to flush with a low nute solution because the nutes bond to the weak solution and 'flush' out of the pot better?..

your buds are swellings nicely.. just try to get some of them salts out of your coco.

Figures my plant has an issue when I'm sick and can't post pics for advice. Not sure how I will go about flushing as I just pretty much permatied her to the tent until she is done. I'll have to come up with something tomorrow.

water with 3 times the amount you normally water with but with a super low ppm.. like 200?..

then take a shop vac and suck out the seed flat so the soil can dry up... maybe even place a fan at the root zone to help dry .. and maybe pop a couple more drain holes in the bottom of the bag?? only my lil suggestions?.. youll be fine.

Buds are still looking sweet though!

doniawon said:

water with 3 times the amount you normally water with but with a super low ppm.. like 200?..

then take a shop vac and suck out the seed flat so the soil can dry up... maybe even place a fan at the root zone to help dry .. and maybe pop a couple more drain holes in the bottom of the bag?? only my lil suggestions?.. youll be fine.

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I totally agree, so sad to see the nute burn but you have had an amazing first grow so far and shouldn't be disheartened by some small errors, them nugs are getting fat! Your plant may be permitied to the tent so you can't moved it side to side but it can move upwards, therefore if you don't have the means to shopvac out water, boost the plant upwards on top of a paint can or some such apparatus inside of a removable container, that way you can just lift the plant upwards a bit and pull the container with the run off water out from the tent and dispose of it, that's what I do at least since I'm using a very small space and I'm growing bushes that are not going to be easy to remove from the tent! Good luck bro I know you will get this sorted out and be on to a great harvest!
-slinger

I am not sure I understand why you can not flush the plant while in the tent. Do you not have a tray under the plants container? I use a Lowes or Home Depot concrete mixing tub in my tents. They are 3x2, and two of them fit nicely in a 4x4 tent. Either way, you need to do a full flush quickly. I use a wet/dry wet vac to suck up the runoff after the flush. If you don't have a wet/dry vac, just soak up the runoff with a turkey baster, towel, or whatever you have. For your size plant you need to flush 3-5 gallons of 5.9 PH water through the plants container. With coco the PH is critcal, unlike a soil grow where the PH should be around 6.4, coco requires a PH similar to what you would use in a hydro setup. After flushing, wait a day or two before applying nutes again. Flushing coco is critical, and will bring your PPM levels back to baseline (close to zero). If you do not flush coco, it will build up excess salts and unused nutes. I made the same mistake on my first coco grow, a couple of years ago. A PH and PPM/EC pen would be a very usful addition for a coco grow, They are pretty cheap, and allow you to better monitor the runoff. Another thing to look at is RH. I seem to recall that you mentioned that your RH is below 30%. Is that correct? If so, that is way too low, and the plant will dry out. RH should be 50-60%, until just prior to finishing. In the winter, I have to add a humidifier to my room to maintain this level. Have you been doing folier feeding? It is a good way to help sick plants recover quickly. After you flush, spray the entire plant with a fine mist of 5.9 water. Get the mist on the both the tops and bottoms of the leaves. The solution will be absorbed by the Stomata, which is how the plants transpire moisture. The perfect temp to do this is 72 degrees. At this temp the Stomata are open, and will absorb the water directly. Good luck.

Just flushed with 3 gals of PH adjusted 5.9 tap water. PPM = ~157. I did not add any nutrients. I used Mazeeff's idea of sucking up excess water with towels, worked great, just put towels in the seed flat and flush water through they soaked it right up. Hopefully that will perk this girl up.

I'm gonna wait 2 days before adding in any more nutrients.

I have a humidifier I can put in there if needed but I have read that it is okay to keep a low humidity as long as you keep the plant watered sufficiently, My humidity has been this low the whole grow. I guess I prefer to keep it low to prevent mold. Are you saying raising it will help? If so I can do so easily, I have just read that if you can keep it watered a low humidity is actually better.

Also today marks week 6 of 12/12 and week 7 since initially spotting female pre flowers, I cut clones when i saw she was female then waited a week to start 12/12.... Should I even add any more nutes at this point? Don't I have to do a 2 week flush before I harvest? If so then would starting flush today mean I would be Harvesting at week 8? I guess I just know I am getting at least somewhat close here and other than watering this with nutes when the coco dries out I don't know what my next steps are....

I know I am supposed to watch trichomes and all so I know when to cut them, i.e. milky/amber/etc... But how do I know when to start the flush?

SativaGrows said:

Just flushed with 3 gals of PH adjusted 5.9 tap water. PPM = ~157. I did not add any nutrients. I used Mazeeff's idea of sucking up excess water with towels, worked great, just put towels in the seed flat and flush water through they soaked it right up. Hopefully that will perk this girl up.

I'm gonna wait 2 days before adding in any more nutrients.

I have a humidifier I can put in there if needed but I have read that it is okay to keep a low humidity as long as you keep the plant watered sufficiently, My humidity has been this low the whole grow. I guess I prefer to keep it low to prevent mold. Are you saying raising it will help? If so I can do so easily, I have just read that if you can keep it watered a low humidity is actually better.

Also today marks week 6 of 12/12 and week 7 since initially spotting female pre flowers, I cut clones when i saw she was female then waited a week to start 12/12.... Should I even add any more nutes at this point? Don't I have to do a 2 week flush before I harvest? If so then would starting flush today mean I would be Harvesting at week 8? I guess I just know I am getting at least somewhat close here and other than watering this with nutes when the coco dries out I don't know what my next steps are....

I know I am supposed to watch trichomes and all so I know when to cut them, i.e. milky/amber/etc... But how do I know when to start the flush?

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If your Permafrost strain has a 8 week flowering cycle then you can stop using nutes at 6 weeks, and just feed it the PH water. I would water every day, and see how much she is drinking, by watering until a little runoff occurs. If Perafrost is a 10-12 weeks strain, then I would continue to feed a Bloom formula for another 2 weeks. With the damage I see, I would just feed the PH water, and hope for the best. From the pictures you posted, it looks like the plant is simply drying out from lack of water getting to the leaves. If it was nute burn, the edges of the leave will burn first, and give you plenty of warning. I would try the folier feed as well. It works wonders on sick plants. As far as humidity goes, it may be too late to raise the RH. In general a plant will do much better in 50-60% RH, up to the last two weeks of flowering. In the last two weeks, you can reduce the RH in order to get the plant to maximize resin production. As long as you activley vent the grow area, and keep fans circulating through the plant, you should not encounter mold or algae. Did you happen to measure the PH and PPM of the runoff? That will give us some insight into what was going on in the media. I use the same brand of coco as you, and it is very important to thoughorly flush the new coco prior to using it. Coco typically has a lot of salt in it when purchased. I flush a 5KG bale with about 20-30 gallons of water prior to using it. Just watch the PPM levels, and flush until the runoff matches the incoming water.

This is a good resource for growers.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/81264-how-grow-marijuana-everything-you-need-know.html

Thanks for all the help and info. As this was a bag seed I do not know how long she is supposed to go for, would it be safe to just continue on tap water from now on? I mean I have 8 healthy clones of her in House and Garden Coco right now which comes pre expanded and flushed and adjusted to 5.9 PH so hopefully this issue won't occur next time as long as I keep up with the flushes. Will using tap water from now on force her to end early, or stop producing buds or what?

I just took a sample of run off from what has dripped out of the pot into the seedling tray since the flush. I used a syringe to pick it up into a dixie cup. PPM shows on my meter as 452 and X10 if flashing next to that, so 4520PPm I believe... and PH measured at 5.87. I usually adjust my nutrient solution to 5.5 to 5.8 PH aiming for around 5.7 but accepting that range. I don't usually use my PPM meter honestly as I usually just follow the instructions on the bottle of whatever I'm using, I usually cut off a few ml just in case; since I always figure a little less is always better than a little more for example if I'm supposed to mix in 40ml of Sensi part A and B to my 2.5 gallon jug I would usually just mix 34-35ml instead and not worry about checking PPM, I would of course remain consistent on that 34-35 instead of 40 each feeding. I always made sure PH was in range though.

So is this runoff accurate or no since I didn't measure it from the bulk of what flushed out? Also my seed tray was a little dirty before the flush, could that have thrown anything off from the test? If it is accurate what could this indicate? Also I have the towels that absorbed all the water hanging to dry if I squeezed some water into a cup and measured that would it be more accurate or would the towel throw it off? They were clean freshly laundered towels.


Also... just thought of something.... Since I JUST measured this runoff and it is still showing as 4520 PPm does that mean I should flush more water through?

***Edit*** just read your post again and you said flush until PPM coming out matches PPM going in... Gotta find some more towels or throw these in the dryer and flush some more water through.

Disturbingly nice looking plant for that amount of light. Pretty jelly. Well done, dude, and hope you get the burn sorted, although it doesn't look too bad if you ask me.

Wow! A PPM of 4,520 is VERY high. Keep flushing and measure the runoff after each bucket of clean 5.9 water going in. Try to take the sample prior to using the towels to soak everything up. Just wring the towels out into a waste bucket. You may never get down to 150 PPM, but you should be able to get it down to 400-500 PPM. It may take a lot of flushing, but do not worry. You will not drown the plant. The highest runoff PPM that I have ever seen was a little over 2,000 PPM, so you are way high! Also, try the same runoff test on your clones. I think that you will find that the runoff is far less than what you are seeing on the big plant. This is a result of residual buildup in the big plant versus the clones. Make sure to flush the clones on a monthly basis or any time you see signs of strees. Here is a good link that shows pictures of the various stress conditions that you are liukely to encounter.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/71664-plant-abuse-chart.html

Thanks! This is why I researched my lights before purchasing, I wanted to be efficient yet get good results and I seem to have achieved this, I have to say i am quite proud of myself this being my first grow and all.

Also just wondering here... This is definitely burn right? I'm just wondering if there is any way this could have been caused by whatever bugs I have been seeing or not. Even though they are pretty much fully under control now with the NPS and neem oil combo. Is there any way this damage could have been caused by them?

mazeeff said:

Wow! A PPM of 4,520 is VERY high. Keep flushing and measure the runoff after each bucket of clean 5.9 water going in. Try to take the sample prior to using the towels to soak everything up. Just wring the towels out into a waste bucket. You may never get down to 150 PPM, but you should be able to get it down to 400-500 PPM. It may take a lot of flushing, but do not worry. You will not drown the plant. The highest runoff PPM that I have ever seen was a little over 2,000 PPM, so you are way high!

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ok, I will say it is possible that measurement is WAY off, I'll admit I have never really fully cleaned/wiped out that seed flat since putting this girl in there, so there could have been deposits in the tray from previous runoff that were picked up when they got wet....


LIGHTBULB

I think i know my problem.... I didn't follow everyones repeated suggestions to clean my seed flat and drain out the water... I have never cleaned the tray meaning it could still have even veg nutes deposited on there and the runoff picks that up and since I leave the runoff in the tray the coco is absorbing all that shit so my coco is all screwed because of it. I should have listened to ya'll I guess I just felt my plant was super plant because it seemed to be doing fine. Well, hard lesson learned but at least I learned it. I do tend to be quite stubborn. Continuing flushing.

SativaGrows said:

Thanks! This is why I researched my lights before purchasing, I wanted to be efficient yet get good results and I seem to have achieved this, I have to say i am quite proud of myself this being my first grow and all.

Also just wondering here... This is definitely burn right? I'm just wondering if there is any way this could have been caused by whatever bugs I have been seeing or not. Even though they are pretty much fully under control now with the NPS and neem oil combo. Is there any way this damage could have been caused by them?

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It might be the bugs, but I doubt it. You will find that out after pulling the plant for harvest. If the bugs are in the media and eating the roots, you might see this. I have never had bugs like you are seeing so, I am not too sure on this. Also, my trays never get cleaned during my grows, and have never resulted in high PPM. I do however suck up the runoff pretty quickly after watering/feeding. You might waste a little nutes this way, but it is far safer. BTW, my first grow was far worse than yours. I had all sorts of issues, including Ozone posioning. You should be very proud of your first grow.

Just flushed again, grabbed some runoff in a ceramic cup before it hit the seedling tray, PPm tested at 2130... Will continue flushing.

SativaGrows said:

Just flushed again, grabbed some runoff in a ceramic cup before it hit the seedling tray, PPm tested at 2130... Will continue flushing.

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Good job. The fact that it is dropping is a good indication that the process is working. I would bet that the runoff is full of salt.

I was going to mention spider mites twice, actually, but no one mentioned them so I kept quiet. Some of my leaves looked similar during my first grow (but a lot worse 'cause I had nothing to combat them with). Can you imagine spending an hour a day killing mites by hand? Very sore back. Prolly did a world of good, too, squishing mite guts into her stoma and all.

What made me think it was bugs was the color of the damage, it didn't look like burn to me. Also the curling of the leaves despite no real sign of over watering. Meh. Guess I was wrong. See that's why I don't give growing tips, I just congratulate them when shit goes right.