LED/T5 Veg, 400W HPS Flower SCOG Cabinet

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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Hey people,

Here's an update, I have been keeping the root temp around 70 degrees
with that seedling heat map under the tray. It really has made a difference. I am seeing fatter stalks
and more lower growth that will fill the net in about a week.
I found that growing in the winter has its advantages.. Flowering at night I get about 80 degrees high.
They go off an hour after sunrise.



I have been vegging them up here for a week now. Same Flora Nova and additives at around 500 ppm.
They have been using the nutrients, my ppms have been dropping and Ph holds pretty close. I top off with About a half gallon of R/O a day.

We will start the flower nutes In a few days at 500 ppm
Flower nutes are: Fox Farm Grow big, Big bloom and Tiger bloom. I will give them one more shot of diamond nectar
with the flower nutes to help them make the switch. Thats what I did last time and I think it helped with the flush in the end.



I was training last night and I broke the main stem on one of the widows. Man they have a strong stalk.
Well just like anyone else I freaked out for a second. I mean it was a clean break
I took of three small sets of branches!
.
I saw this stuff start to form on the ends so I lined the two pieces up and held them together for like 2 minutes
while I was thinking of what I could use to prop it up and it kinda fused together.
I looked at the lines in the stalk and they were close to where they were before it broke and taped it up and supported it..

This was last night.



I use the tape from a band aid and propped it up. after an hour it looked pretty sad. But today?



The very next day not only the leafs were up but the shoots were looking fine too. I wouldn't believe it if
I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Man that was fast.

So, we are happy again.



Here is a shot of the kids.



There one week old. I got six WW clones in the back row and ten Stinky Cindy seeds. They all popped.
These I am going to have to sex. Been feeding them straight R/O. Clones are on clonex solution.
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potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
Man those are looking sooooooooooooo nice!!! I need to take some cloning lessons from you. Seriously! You take your clones, put them in the rapid rooter, plug that into the RW and add your Clonex solution to the RR? That sounds like an awesome system. ...of course, the aero system that I built sounded like an awesome system too, LOL.
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Hey Pimp,

Thanks for the complement but really I am just taking what I have learned here and tweaking it a bit. Basically I use Clonex cloning gel and Clonex solution. They all root.

Here ya go, clone 101 step by step

Mix Clonex solution and set aside. Get the gel and put some on a piece of paper or something you will toss out. Get clean razor blade or scissors and a rooter plugs.

It is very important you follow instructions carefully. Next Roll a doobie and smoke half. lol

Split the rooter plugs in half to about 1/4 inch below the hole. Now you are going to need something to hold them together. I use a tray that has sections that hold them together but I have used twist ties in a pinch.

Take your cuttings at the third node and cut that off on an angle. Remove the leaf that’s there at the base. By the way if you leave a little bit of a nub the plant will try and grow roots from it but the root will go up. It sucks I done it so cut it clean.
Then take your blade and lightly scrape the sides of the stem at the end. This will grow more roots and faster.

Use a good amount of gel, cover the scraped sides. About ¼ inch up and the end.
When placing the cutting in the cube make sure the bottom of the cutting touches the rooter cube. They have a pre formed hole that’s too big so I split the cube and make sure its touching. I spray the tray with water and put them in. Then spray the dome and set it on top. Time to smoke the other half of the doob.

I keep it Dark for 24 hours then 18/6 taking the dome off every day and spraying it again. This keeps them moist. After 3 or 4 days I take the dome off.

This is when I put them closer to the light. The light will evaporate the water in the rooter cubes in about 8 hours so I need to be careful here. Then use the Clonex solution to feed them. I feed about 10ml each. I top feed with a syringe. I make sure the cube has dried out some before I feed. I can tell by the color of the cube. It gets darker when it is wet. Keeping the temps of the root zone at about 80 degrees with a heating pad of some sort.

What I do different is take smaller clones, I think they root easier but they are smaller so it takes longer for them to gain height. But they all root. That’s important to me because once I start flowering I don’t want to have to do it again.

Another thing is I don’t spray the clone, just the tray and dome. Smaller clones do not need it and my thinking is they breathe better. After a couple days I look for the yellowing of the lower leaves. That tells me there rooting. Once the leaf has turned completely yellow I remove it. Now they have rooted and it is time to move them to Rockwool.

Anyway I soak my Rockwool cubes overnight in a mixture of tap water and super thrive at one drop per gallon and ph to 5.0 I have tried both tap and distilled and didn’t see any difference. Well you don’t need to set overnight in distilled because there is no chlorine.
I add superthrive to the water I soak the Rockwool in. Not the water I feed them with. I still feed with the Clonex for another week. Soaking the bottom of the Rockwool cube for like 10 seconds. That gives me aprox 30% moisture in the cube. It transfers to the rooter and by now the roots are in the Rockwool.

I use up the gallon or so of the mix of Clonex that I originally made then start my nutrients. Takes about two week’s altogether.

I think your fogger will work fine with smaller cuttings and temps at 80 degrees.
Then plop it into the fogger and put a wet dome on it.
Use about 500 ppm of flower nutes and some sort of root growth stimulator, keep temps at around 80 you would be good to go.

I have done some experimenting taking cuttings. My thinking was every time I take a cutting I have one less bud site so how could I minimize this. Well I go to the bottom of the plant and look for a shoot off one of the stems. If it has one set of leaves it’s a clone. The smallest clone I got to germ was less than an inch tall and had one leaf.

I don’t need to do that in this type of grow because I cut out what doesn’t make it to the screen after stretching but that is also two weeks into flowering so if I ever do have a clone that doesn’t root I can get another one that’s larger and hopefully it will catch up.

Oh, My girls just woke up.

Later.

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potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
OK, I threw out the dead or dying "clones" and started fresh. There were still a lot more lower branches to take the clones from and one of the plants had not even been touched (it was the small one). I numbered the clones so that I will know what plant they came from. I snipped them at a 45 degree angle just below the third node, split it slightly, shaved off the skin, docked the leaves of the second node, dipped it in cloning gel and stuck it in the collar and into the aero unit. When I got the unit filled up with 15 clones I put the dome over it and turned on the light. The water is pH'ed and nutes are at 335ppm. I added a drop or two of Superthrive. I'm going to give this aero unit ONE more shot. The water also has some Advanced Nutrients "Jump Start" which is supposed to help in cloning. It's got some funk growing in it but I strained it out. I was going to lollipop them again next week anyway - one final time. So nothing ventured, nothing gained. I did notice that the stems were a lot more soft further up than down next to the stalk. Here's the pix:

 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
wow, just read the entire thread. +rep to you Cruzer. Loved the step by step cloning, and the entire grow journal.
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Looks good man. Spray water on the inside of that dome and keep it moist. You may need to do it a couple times a day. Oh, and close the vents on the dome for the first two days. You want 100% humidity. and 80 degrees. Thats important.

When you clone for sex from what I understand you want the lights at 12/12 right off the start and you should be able to sex in like three weeks.

By the way,
As seen on RUI is cool but Binfords Stinkbud 9000 Rocks!


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potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
Two of the clones are standing at attention this morning but the rest seem to be sleeping still. I took the humidity dome off and sprayed them again. Do you think I should switch to a smaller CFL? I'm using a 65w now but I have some 26w. Haven't checked the temp in the cab but it feels like it's around 80ish, maybe a little over. I have another thermometer and another timer; I can use these if necessary. And what about rapid rooters, think I should stick them in rapid rooters?
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
cruzer101 said:
Wow, Thats a lot of reading. I thought I was the only one who read entire journals in one visit. Thanks man.
Click to expand...
I do it on late nights when i'm too high to sleep!!LOL!!!
Used your cloning steps last night on a vegging PPP. It was Like a breeze!!!! Got them in 24 hrs. dark right now untill tonight,then going to 24hrs light. Is that right?
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
potpimp said:
Two of the clones are standing at attention this morning but the rest seem to be sleeping still. I took the humidity dome off and sprayed them again. Do you think I should switch to a smaller CFL? I'm using a 65w now but I have some 26w. Haven't checked the temp in the cab but it feels like it's around 80ish, maybe a little over. I have another thermometer and another timer; I can use these if necessary. And what about rapid rooters, think I should stick them in rapid rooters?
Click to expand...
I thought the idea was to get that fogger going. You will know in a couple days. What happens is if the clone starts rooting the lower leaf will turn yellow. This is the plant taking the energy from the leaves and making roots. In your case you will be able to open it and see. During this process the plant does not grow. Kinda looks like its dying for a couple days. Then in about 4 days you see the new growth. It is light green and you know your on your way. The plant will straighten up again.

The way I see it is If you have too much light the cutting thinks it can still grow and it will die. Trying to continue to grow without and roots to supply it. Your tricking it with the light thing. I have had the same results with the 24 hour dark period and just keeping them under a 40 watt light for a week at 18/6 and 24/7. I go 24 hr dark because that is what I have learned. But I am the kind of guy who likes to see for myself. By not going 24hr dark at first I found they still root, just takes a few days to a week longer.

The important thing is not the temp in the cabinet but the root temp. If the root temp is higher then the plant it seems to send the energy that way. Then you get roots. By not paying attention to the root temp I get about 50% success. By keeping it at 80 I root them all. I thought I saw a heating pad under your fogger so I didnt mention this again.

I noticed most of your fan leaves were still full size. I cut them in half because thats the way I was shown how to do it.

Well, I tried not cutting them and they took longer to root.
The weight of the leaves bent the plant. Like yours. Once it did finally root it took a few days to get back up but it was a bigger plant to start with. So it has its good points and bad points. I believe by cutting them you are forcing the plant to send the growth hormones elsewhere. sort of like topping a plant. It sends the energy to the lower branches, well in this case to make roots. The sooner you have roots the sooner you can get to rapid growth stage.

I have had better success spraying the dome, not the cuttings. I am not sure why but I think it has to do with transpiration. Humidity is not water. It took me quite a while to figure that one out. It is a mix of water and air so it makes sense to spray the dome and not the cutting.

Well, it works for me.
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
lilmafia513 said:
I do it on late nights when i'm too high to sleep!!LOL!!!
Used your cloning steps last night on a vegging PPP. It was Like a breeze!!!! Got them in 24 hrs. dark right now untill tonight,then going to 24hrs light. Is that right?
Click to expand...
Too High to sleep? Dam when I get real high... :sleep:

PPP? Awesome. I was buying seeds from Narvana and wanted to grow that but Nirvana had a warning to California customers and said it wasnt a good idea to ship at the time.

I found Seed Botique and got lost there looking at all the different strains.
Then I setteled on White Widow, Train Wreck and Super Silver Haze.
Got them and 5 freebies in about a week.

As you know I germed the Widows and got three out of five to pop.
Took six clones for the next batch. The rest is history.

Yea 24 hrs dark period then You can go 24/7 if you like. Just start with a small light for the first week.
From what I understand plants do not need a dark cycle untill flower.
On the other hand, I have read (from reputable sources) that the plant wont use but about 16 hours of daylight anyway. Something to think about when your running HID lighting in veg I guess.

Journal?
Do I smell a Grow Journal in the works?
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lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
cruzer101 said:

Too High to sleep? Dam when I get real high... :sleep:

PPP? Awesome. I was buying seeds from Narvana and wanted to grow that but Nirvana had a warning to California customers and said it wasnt a good idea to ship at the time.

I found Seed Botique and got lost there looking at all the different strains.
Then I setteled on White Widow, Train Wreck and Super Silver Haze.
Got them and 5 freebies in about a week.

As you know I germed the Widows and got three out of five to pop.
Took six clones for the next batch. The rest is history.

Yea 24 hrs dark period then You can go 24/7 if you like. Just start with a small light for the first week.
From what I understand plants do not need a dark cycle untill flower.
On the other hand, I have read (from reputable sources) that the plant wont use but about 16 hours of daylight anyway. Something to think about when your running HID lighting in veg I guess.

Journal?
Do I smell a Grow Journal in the works?
​
Click to expand...
LOL...Thanks man, i already have a journal. It's in the sig. It starts off kind of dumb, but gets good. That's how many i just took last night 6 clones of the PPP. My next will be 6 off the WW. For a total of 12 plants flowering at once!
I use 24 hrs on my clones, then 18/6 for vegg., then 12 for flower. I can have all three areas going at once and only see a slight raise in my energy bill, but i use CFL's for cloning vegg, w/ a four foot shop light above.
Would you be able to spot a trainwreck from a pic if ya saw it?
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Sure, its easy to spot them, They are big long heavy things that jump the track. Big Mess... Naw I couldn't do it. I haven't grown it yet. I got this stinky widow cindy to grow and I am sure I will want to do it a few times. Then I got the haze to start in here then transplant outdoors this summer. After all that, I will grow the train wreck. Even then I bet it would be hard to spot in a pic.
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lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
cruzer101 said:
Sure, its easy to spot them, They are big long heavy things that jump the track. Big Mess... Naw I couldn't do it. I haven't grown it yet. I got this stinky widow cindy to grow and I am sure I will want to do it a few times. Then I got the haze to start in here then transplant outdoors this summer. After all that, I will grow the train wreck. Even then I bet it would be hard to spot in a pic.
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Click to expand...
Thats cool man, buddy gave me some seeds and said there was a mixture of seeds from some trainwreck, kush, and other name brand shit he had got over the past year. Just didn't know if i had some or not!!!
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Ok,

Keeping the nute ppms 500 this time using Fox Farm. I really didnt realize what a difference root temp made. Now keeping the root zone and the res at about 70d canopy 85d

Looks like they are done stretching. I hope. We are 10 days into flower
and they have stretched as much as the others did in two weeks. Maybe more.



Like I said I am trying to make use of that space up on the sides. Got the stadium thing going on. I trained the widow at a 45d angle for about eight inches then up. I was going to have three widow colas in the center but I will have to settle for two.
That widow top I thought mended? Well it didnt make it.
Now the side branches on her are much larger then the others.
You can see she is just to the right of center. Little lighter in color.

On the sides is Apollo. After three grows I kept the traits I wanted and they grow like a bush so I didnt train then much this time.
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Yea man,

I bet this will be the best grow so far. I trained the widows a bit As far as the Apollos go I have just let them stretch.
Oh and they were not done, shot up an inch all around last night.

I hope I dont overgrow this thing.
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potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
I didn't read the genetics when I bought my WW seeds but from what I see on my plants, they are probably 60% sativa. But sativa is my favorite anyway so it's all good. They do get tall though!
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
cruzer101 said:
Ok,

Keeping the nute ppms 500 this time using Fox Farm. I really didnt realize what a difference root temp made. Now keeping the root zone and the res at about 70d canopy 85d

Looks like they are done stretching. I hope. We are 10 days into flower
and they have stretched as much as the others did in two weeks. Maybe more.



Like I said I am trying to make use of that space up on the sides. Got the stadium thing going on. I trained the widow at a 45d angle for about eight inches then up. I was going to have three widow colas in the center but I will have to settle for two.
That widow top I thought mended? Well it didnt make it.
Now the side branches on her are much larger then the others.
You can see she is just to the right of center. Little lighter in color.

On the sides is Apollo. After three grows I kept the traits I wanted and they grow like a bush so I didnt train then much this time.
​
Click to expand...
Hey cruzer, just curious, but is that a baking tray for a light reflector?
You might have mentioned it before, if so sorry for asking the same question again, I hate when people do that!!LOL!!!:joint:
 
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cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Yea,

Good eye. Actually they are oven liners. This last thanksgiving I saw one in the bottom of the oven and thought it would be perfect to use as a reflector. I also use the same kind of baking thingy we put the turkey in for a clone unit.

I always got growing on the brain, lol

I went to wallmart I think it was and got them.
They came in a package of two for like $5. Now I see most grocery stores carry them too. Cool thing is they are extremely light weight and if the plant pushes on them they will rise up. Well thats what I think will happen we will see.

I think whats going to happen on this grow is those plants on the sides will grow into the liners (reflector) and then move towards the light. lifting the liners a bit.

If I am wrong, I can just raise them. I got about five inches on the ends.
I always thought buds needed light on every side. Thats why people rotated plants in there grow.
Well after doing this a few times I realised that buds do not need light all around them to grow fat. One of the biggest buds last grow just received light from one side.

We are all constantly learning Thats one of the things that makes this so much fun. Well that and seeing the results at harvest time.

I know what you mean about asking questions when the info is in the journal. Its like READ IT MAN. But I dont care right now, I got plenty of time on my hands for about one more week. Then it's back to work.
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