Led Users Unite!

660nm420

Active Member
excuse my ignorance, but is led grow lights direct the only place to buy ISIS lights?
is the 170 and the 357 the only two they sell?

if not where else can i buy them?

I am looking for something good to flower a 2.5' x 2.5' square cabinet.
Oh and the ISIS uses 3 fans @ about 6w a piece for about 102 w used on LED and the magnum has the same fans but 6 of them for only 180 watts bringing the total LED watts to about 144. So translation you pay an additional $300 for only about 42 more LED watts.
 

stoneyluv

Well-Known Member
thanks 660nm!! I had planned on buying the 170w anyway. I thought i remembered them making an ISIS-2 which came in 240w panel? what ever happened to the ISIS-2?

in your opinion, do you think the 170W isis-1 would be good enough for a 2.5x 2.5 foot area?

I currently have a 120W tri band panel and 184W of CFL's and it flowers them but i get low yields. If I need to i would leave the CFL's if i got an ISIS but i would rather not if it will fill my area..... Thanks so much for the info!!
 

dapio

Well-Known Member
why is there no light distance chart for L.E.D? sorry all I use is H.I.D's because science has brought me to them and there perfect for LST I am no fool though I know the future is these crazy little computer chip lights but are people harvesting a gram per watt from these things? I just want hard facts I have also been told that there are different angles indifferent to each type of L.E.D basically being told that only CREE L.E.D lights are efficient? anyways hope to get some answers I want to one day get rid of my inline fan and continue my LST yields in high fashion but it takes a lot more then hearsay to make any money come out of my safe
 

astroastro

Active Member
"The Bridgelux NLX-5 and NLX-6 are not true 3W devices, but this is way it has been framed by the marketing people."

you better read the spec sheet again bro maximum dc forward current 1000miliamps opertingvoltage 3.0-3.6v that's 3-3.6w http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/prod...heetDS-C12.pdf

"you can perhaps exceed 1W of current injection through the device."

current is amps not watts bro

"Anyone who thinks you are getting there with a chunk of aluminum and a fan is delusional."

tel me how computer makers do it then bro transistors are ust as sensitive to heat as diodes and they got no power cramming 200w intoa procesor and letting 50+% leak out i dont think you know what youre talking about

"Thermal performance of sapphire is not good-"

do you know why diodes are saphire based bro its because sapphire expands and contracts at almos tthe same rate as the p-n layer this keeps the dide layers from separatingfrom different rates of thermal contraction and expanson almost no other material comes close to having the same prperties

"Also, you can see the LG ad listed a whole bunch of wavelengths which are clearly NOT available from Bridgelux."

one quick call to bridgelux says youre wrong again they say they have almost any wavelength minus ir and uv available they just dont sel it publicly you gotta as for it

for someone suposedly in the business you dont seem to know too much on the other hand google and phone cals to sources tel me much more

Ha! OK, you are right. You should call your friends at Bridgelux and tell them you are going to plop their die on a chunk of aluminum and inject 1A of current thru it. Then get a measurement of actual junction temperature and let me know. And no, there is not a bunch of Bridgelux dies (or anybody else's) available in 'any' peak wavelength you want. I have designed around/ purchased/ and manufactured using millions of LED dies, primarily from Cree, Bridgelux, and Epistar- when you order you are going to receive dies from a range of bins with differing peak wavelengths, forward voltages, and radiant flux- that's the way it is when dealing with these companies.

You are right again- diodes use sapphire for it's coefficient of thermal expansion- it has nothing to do with the epitaxy process/ seed crystal growth- the way the semiconductor is actually fabricated. With no other material providing the properties of Al2O3 (sapphire) it is amazing that Cree can somehow make an LED on SiC. Perhaps you can wiki 'epitaxy' and figure it out why they use Al2O3. Also- you can Google thermal conductance and compare sapphire to say, silicon or better yet, copper.

At power densities above 100W for many processors, most engineers will opt for heat pipes or liquid cooling, but OK, use a chunk of aluminum and a fan.

"you can perhaps exceed 1W of current injection through the device." Yes- you are right again. I made the rash assumption that most people understood that LED Vf remained 'relatively' constant, so watt ratings fall back to the level of current injection thru the die in the V x A watt determination- thanks for pointing this out, I should not make this assumption as this seemed to lead to some confusion.


The simple facts are these- with LED's there is no more important design aspect than the thermal system of the fixture. Operating any typical 1mm^2, 1W die at current densities which exceed 1W is a very dicey engineering proposition- regardless of the the Cree or Bridglux specs say- and they will tell you this themselves. You will notice all the testing is done at 350mA current injection, approx 1W. Highly efficient, true 1W power LED dies are not available in any wavelength you want- the current state of the AlInGaP (and similar) 'red' process and materials is not any where near as good as the blue, where there has been a ton of R&D money invested.
 

dunit

Active Member
Oh and the ISIS uses 3 fans @ about 6w a piece for about 102 w used on LED and the magnum has the same fans but 6 of them for only 180 watts bringing the total LED watts to about 144. So translation you pay an additional $300 for only about 42 more LED watts.
Fans are 1.5-1.8 watts.
 

stoneyluv

Well-Known Member
guys, I could use some help please.....

I have a flowering cabinet that is 2.5' x 2.5' and i currently have 184 watts of CFL and a 120W tri band LED panel (chinese model from ebay). It does okay for me but i now want a little bit more. I want to use my led panel for veg and get a new panel to replace my old one. i am willing to leave the CFL's in there but if i could I'd like to remove them. I like to stuff 8-9 small plants in that small area and harvest once a week (perpetual). I only get 20-30 grams per plant. I'd like to get 30-40 grams per plant.

I have had my eye on either the ISIS-1 or a 240W blackstar. my budget is about $500. What do you guys think?

am I crazy to expect that much? any help is appreciated...
I figured the blackstar should be at least twice as good as what i already have...
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
guys, I could use some help please.....

I have a flowering cabinet that is 2.5' x 2.5' and i currently have 184 watts of CFL and a 120W tri band LED panel (chinese model from ebay). It does okay for me but i now want a little bit more. I want to use my led panel for veg and get a new panel to replace my old one. i am willing to leave the CFL's in there but if i could I'd like to remove them. I like to stuff 8-9 small plants in that small area and harvest once a week (perpetual). I only get 20-30 grams per plant. I'd like to get 30-40 grams per plant.

I have had my eye on either the ISIS-1 or a 240W blackstar. my budget is about $500. What do you guys think?

am I crazy to expect that much? any help is appreciated...
I figured the blackstar should be at least twice as good as what i already have...
For $500 I would get a 180w GLH Spectra, or save up a little more and get two 240w blackstars (although they are not built to last as well, the light isn't as good per watt, and each only runs about 133w). It may be better for you to just get a single 240w and see how well that treats you then decide if you have more money to spend. I'm fairly certain the 180w Spectra could handle your entire 2.5x2.5 space on its own though, especially if you don't grow to the edges with leaves smooshing against the walls of the tent. But I imagine even 133w of Blackstar (thats what you really get with their '240w' unit) and your other one you would easily have enough light for a 2.5x2.5 SCROG or SOG.

Do you usually only have enough money to get what you need? Then I would say get a single '240w' Blackstar and see if its enough, because I think it could be (if it turns out that it isn't or for some reason you are not happy, you will have saved that money and can buy another or better one). If you usually have money to spend and want the best LED tech/hardware/&warranty you can get in a panel for *$500 or less go GLH Spectra

*Not saying they make the best panels that sell under $500, but that they seem to be the only ones putting all 3w 12 spectrum diodes in panels along with finned heat sinks, and fail safe bits that keep more than 1 LED from dieing at once (unlike most UFOs and panels), and at less than $3 per true watt in upfront cost for a panel that costs $500 or less. They also don't attempt to mislead people about the wattage of their units the way most companies do.
 

stoneyluv

Well-Known Member
For $500 I would get a 180w GLH Spectra, or save up a little more and get two 240w blackstars (although they are not built to last as well, the light isn't as good per watt, and each only runs about 133w). It may be better for you to just get a single 240w and see how well that treats you then decide if you have more money to spend. I'm fairly certain the 180w Spectra could handle your entire 2.5x2.5 space on its own though, especially if you don't grow to the edges with leaves smooshing against the walls of the tent.
Thanks for your time dude!! I wasn't aware of the reliability issue with the blackstars. that makes me want to lean a different way... I am intrigued by the spectra. i understand they are very intense, in your opinion, how far away should they be from the canopy?

what is your opinion on the ISIS-1 for my situation?
 

dunit

Active Member
why is there no light distance chart for L.E.D? sorry all I use is H.I.D's because science has brought me to them and there perfect for LST I am no fool though I know the future is these crazy little computer chip lights but are people harvesting a gram per watt from these things? I just want hard facts I have also been told that there are different angles indifferent to each type of L.E.D basically being told that only CREE L.E.D lights are efficient? anyways hope to get some answers I want to one day get rid of my inline fan and continue my LST yields in high fashion but it takes a lot more then hearsay to make any money come out of my safe
Distance charts don't exist because height depends on lens angle and wattage of individual diodes. Manufacturers usually tell you what height to hang them at but that is usually higher than optimal so they can claim a better footprint. Cree is the best but it is also the most expensive....and not by a couple point....I mean like double the cost so most panels that claim to use cree only actually have a couple in them or only run the white ones as they are cheaper than specialty spectrums. The lights I'm running contain Bridgelux and Epistar and they seem to be working. Pop by my journal if you want to check them out.

Definately lots of crap panels out there. Research some grow journals to find lights that actually perform.

DunitGrowPK_MagnumLEDMay2 015.jpgDunitGrowPK_MagnumLEDMay2 018.jpgDunitGrowPK_MagnumLEDMay2 006.jpgDunitGrowPK_MagnumLEDMay2 003.jpg
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your time dude!! I wasn't aware of the reliability issue with the blackstars. that makes me want to lean a different way... I am intrigued by the spectra. i understand they are very intense, in your opinion, how far away should they be from the canopy?

what is your opinion on the ISIS-1 for my situation?
I don't mean to imply Blackstar has longevity issues, I'm just saying they and about 99% of other LED companies haven't gone the extra mile that GLH has into making sure these things will last. And I've never seen anything better than a 3 year warranty and GLH gives you the guarantee for way more of that 50,000 hours than anyone else does with a 5 year warrant. They also have a cool return policy, but I have no idea about any other companies so there might be better ones for that. The only downside to going GLH is you may have to wait 2 weeks before the panel is shipped to you (don't worry about what the website says just shoot them an email).
 

stoneyluv

Well-Known Member
I don't mean to imply Blackstar has longevity issues, I'm just saying they and about 99% of other LED companies haven't gone the extra mile that GLH has into making sure these things will last. And I've never seen anything better than a 3 year warranty and GLH gives you the guarantee for way more of that 50,000 hours than anyone else does with a 5 year warrant. They also have a cool return policy, but I have no idea about any other companies so there might be better ones for that. The only downside to going GLH is you may have to wait 2 weeks before the panel is shipped to you (don't worry about what the website says just shoot them an email).
Thanks, I had noticed the warranty and the honesty kind of sold me. I placed an order for one a couple hours ago. I didn't send an email though... I just bought through the website, does this mean I will have to wait even longer?

Where do they ship from?

I am kind of limited on height at the moment, I am in the process fixing it but for now it is what it is. Can I get away with only 8" of head room? I use an individual scrog setup so me canopy is very even. But I don't want to bleach them.

Thanks again for all the help!!
 

meharmon

Member
Nice buy stoney! The resistors, warranty, and heatsink design make for a design much better than the Blackstar, and for future reference you can get a blackstar for 250 shipped (user prices vary slightly), so $500 even will get 2. Looks like your most recent chop was bleached, so if these are stronger than what you have I look forward to your results :)
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
And on height it is really hard to tell because there can be many difference between panels. I think the risk of light bleaching and issues with too many nodes too quickly could be avoided by going 1 at a time with the blackstar, they have less spectrums and I imagine at least some of the lens are as much as 120, so the PAR should be less intense enough that you wouldn't have to worry about that.

Each has its pros and cons! You may find you need to invest your money elsewhere, and even a single '240w' (133w) Blackstar would be a Great addition to your setup and probably put it right at where you would start to have more light than space for really, but then again there are advantages to getting say a 180w Spectra too


My 395w Spectra (252 3w diodes run on avg of 1.52w with about 12w to fans) has the 'whole 12 spectrums' I guess and is set to all 90 degree lens angle. I feel if you are starting from seed or small clones/seedlings then I need to keep it no closer than 4 ft from the tops of the plants and I'm about a month into veg, I flowered just fine at 8-12 in with my last harvest... Not sure how high I'll set it this year (I think 12-24 in might be just right to give the colors room to blend or something?
 

ColoradoLove

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I had noticed the warranty and the honesty kind of sold me. I placed an order for one a couple hours ago. I didn't send an email though... I just bought through the website, does this mean I will have to wait even longer?

Where do they ship from?

I am kind of limited on height at the moment, I am in the process fixing it but for now it is what it is. Can I get away with only 8" of head room? I use an individual scrog setup so me canopy is very even. But I don't want to bleach them.

Thanks again for all the help!!
They ship from CA, my GLH ges here Thursday!
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I had noticed the warranty and the honesty kind of sold me. I placed an order for one a couple hours ago. I didn't send an email though... I just bought through the website, does this mean I will have to wait even longer?

Where do they ship from?

I am kind of limited on height at the moment, I am in the process fixing it but for now it is what it is. Can I get away with only 8" of head room? I use an individual scrog setup so me canopy is very even. But I don't want to bleach them.

Thanks again for all the help!!
I don't know if there is an issue with buying from the site, I was just saying that because that is how I did it so I know it is issue free. I don't think you would get light bleaching at 8 inches from the 180w unless it was a pretty sensitive strain (I've had 3 kinds at 8 in flower and they were all fine), but at only 8 inches you might have issues with the plants growing slowly because they are pushing too much new growth without growing an appropriate amount of supporting fan leaves first (if you have to keep at 8in. try to give seedlings or small clones 1-2 weeks above ground and under CFL or something first.

I had 2 seedling that went straight under LED when they popped and 2 that were under CFL for 5/8 days before everything went under the LED at 2ft, well at week 5 of veg the CFL plants appear to be about twice the size of the runts *But they all have tons of new growth all up and down their stems. I figured out how to get my light from 3ft - 4ft the other day and the plants seemed to be more happy. Maybe the rule of thumb for full/12 spectrum 3w panels will be 1ft for every 100w?
 

kush groove

Active Member
why is it that everyone who didnt purchase a blackstar led always know how crappy they are...........and they guy who did purchase it, loves it..........makes you wonder

when you start hearing complaints of blackstars breaking down then you can talk all the crap you want to about heatsinks and 5 year warranties......but until then you should only comment on what you know, not what you believe

i havent even heard any complaints at all about the older model lighthouse hydro lights.....so, go figure
 
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