LED vs H.I.D

Rocket Soul said:
I think both yes and no on the wide spectrum. If this was true then all outdoor weed would be superior to indoors and fetch a higher market price which is not quite true.
Click to expand...

I’m going to have to disagree with you on the wide sun-like spectrum. Filling the cyan/green gap that is lacking from most traditional LED spectrums, is something that I’m working on right now and plant response is great so far. But when I was referring to broadening both ends of the spectrum, I was referring to blue/violet/UV nanometers and also deep red/Far Red nanometers. Like 365nm- 437nm & 660nm - 730nm, that are typically missing or minimally present in most standard LED spectrums.

I should also clarify when I’m talking about quality of plants grown under sunlight vs artificial light, I’m personally referring to indoor vs greenhouse grown, not just “outdoor” grown. Which don’t get me wrong, I’ve had excellent outdoor and excellent indoor herb. Outdoor grown is at the mercy of Mother Nature though. So if you don’t live in an ideal climate/environment, your end quality is likely to suffer some.
But, consistently the very best I’ve ever had has always come from soil grown greenhouse weed grown under the Sun, and it’s not even a close competition. The terpenes are so much more diverse and pronounced, the flavor seems to almost always translate through the smoke, and the high seems to last hours longer than indoor herb.
I’ve even seen cuts that myself and buddies ran for years indoors under different types of lighting look, smell, taste and feel very different and better in every way when grown in living soil in a greenhouse, under sunlight. It was unrecognizable and amazing (707 Headband). I’ve seen it personally a number times, and studies support what I’ve personally experienced.
Market pricing has nothing to do with how good the weed actually is unfortunately, at least in the States. Pricing is based on bag appeal, test #’s and the hype of the strain and that’s literally it. Not the nose or the taste or the quality of the smoke differentiates pricing. Here in the US, weed is legal to some degree in a majority of the populated states, but we are flooded with so much boof herb that I can’t take $1000 around town hitting up dispensaries or dealers and find good weed. There almost is no good weed on the market, just check the forums and see what older heads think. The market will buy what’s being provided, and currently that is mostly boof, but it’s priced as if it were actually good. I guess a majority of consumers may not actually know the difference between meh bud and outstanding bud.

Regarding your lighting tests, it would be cool to see the broad red from the last spectrum mixed with the double blue peak from the first spectrum. I’m hoping to be doing something similar in the next few months, but utilizing a number of different strips. Please keep us posted as you go!
 
cdgmoney250 said:
I’m going to have to disagree with you on the wide sun-like spectrum. Filling the cyan/green gap that is lacking from most traditional LED spectrums, is something that I’m working on right now and plant response is great so far. But when I was referring to broadening both ends of the spectrum, I was referring to blue/violet/UV nanometers and also deep red/Far Red nanometers. Like 365nm- 437nm & 660nm - 730nm, that are typically missing or minimally present in most standard LED spectrums.

I should also clarify when I’m talking about quality of plants grown under sunlight vs artificial light, I’m personally referring to indoor vs greenhouse grown, not just “outdoor” grown. Which don’t get me wrong, I’ve had excellent outdoor and excellent indoor herb. Outdoor grown is at the mercy of Mother Nature though. So if you don’t live in an ideal climate/environment, your end quality is likely to suffer some.
But, consistently the very best I’ve ever had has always come from soil grown greenhouse weed grown under the Sun, and it’s not even a close competition. The terpenes are so much more diverse and pronounced, the flavor seems to almost always translate through the smoke, and the high seems to last hours longer than indoor herb.
I’ve even seen cuts that myself and buddies ran for years indoors under different types of lighting look, smell, taste and feel very different and better in every way when grown in living soil in a greenhouse, under sunlight. It was unrecognizable and amazing (707 Headband). I’ve seen it personally a number times, and studies support what I’ve personally experienced.
Market pricing has nothing to do with how good the weed actually is unfortunately, at least in the States. Pricing is based on bag appeal, test #’s and the hype of the strain and that’s literally it. Not the nose or the taste or the quality of the smoke differentiates pricing. Here in the US, weed is legal to some degree in a majority of the populated states, but we are flooded with so much boof herb that I can’t take $1000 around town hitting up dispensaries or dealers and find good weed. There almost is no good weed on the market, just check the forums and see what older heads think. The market will buy what’s being provided, and currently that is mostly boof, but it’s priced as if it were actually good. I guess a majority of consumers may not actually know the difference between meh bud and outstanding bud.

Regarding your lighting tests, it would be cool to see the broad red from the last spectrum mixed with the double blue peak from the first spectrum. I’m hoping to be doing something similar in the next few months, but utilizing a number of different strips. Please keep us posted as you go!
Click to expand...
Agree with everything here, only i dont consider the gap to include green (550ish), its always high in white phosphor diodes, but cyan 475nm should definitely have a place in supplementation its just that it is impossible to find efficient diodes.
I have 4 triple red supp versions im testing against eachother (if all goes well) for more clarity in how i like to manage red supp: 640/660/680 in different mixes with triple 660 as a baseline. But all of these strips made to have a separate blue/uv channel.
The first strip with 405 supplemented would actually be the broadest spectrum, 405 + 680 with narrowband phosphor for the rest otf the peaks. All of these are 90 cri spectrums which come with a slight efficiency deficit to the standard 80 cris but speced at 35-40w per sq foot, and with a more flower centric spectrum i doubt that it will matter much.
 
jimihendrix1 said:
I use 2 of them, with a 1000w HID, for each 4 x 4 area, at 24 inches, and slowly build up the duration to 4 hours per day, but also still watch at the reaction the plants have to it. I also use often use a Blue Heavy Hortilux Blue or similar type of bulb for flowering, with a 6000k-6500k spectrum. Which the Halides, also release 280nm of light. All the way to 2400nm+. I use the Solacure, to intensify the lowest spectrum. I also find it useful with 1000w HPS-Hortilux to enhance the lowest spectrum.
Also at 280nm, it has been shown that it will reduce/eliminate powdery mildew. 280nm, is the line of UVB/UVC.
Click to expand...

I used a Hortilux-Super Blue MH for Veg and flowering
61Z65t09_5L._SL1024_1024x1024_46b254be-f85d-499b-a0ba-6e4c27fbb58e.jpg
Since the 80s, even today this bulb is used in professional horticulture across the board.
250.00 bulb. Ballast doesn't cost much, I've used the same bulb for years, I'd say every 3 years replace one. You can find the bulb 178.00

Simple reason why professional use them, plant health diagnosis, in any other light source deficiency will hide longer than the Hortilux-Super Blue.

Meaning You can see flaws better under this unique lights.
Terps explode strong, you'll get an exact replica of an outdoor grown plant.

The actual goal for a Cannabis plant. High and low K value stretch and shorter height, which for HPS this can shorten the stretch.

With the MH bulb. I reduce the stretch and get a more dense product. Even with color that HPS doesn't exhibit in the final product.

Since the 80s the HSB bulb is the greatest light source other than the sun.
I Super cropped a 2 limb plant day 1 flowering, the mains are on the left and right outside, the middle is the lower. This is penetration i would image what the description says about HID
1000000528.jpg

Then there's diffused light, MH in flowering, big buds everywhere, lots of lights spaced out, instead of packed in.

Have you ever seen the power of the right HID system?
How about a 8000k MH last week of flowering? 10,000K last days?

Weed was better back in the day, because it was grown better indoors than it is today.

The carbon footprint was way lower and a very efficient solution to Cannabis not grown under the sun.

Overfeeding will ruin potency and taste. Cannabis will never be easy to grow, but it's like printing your own money, and being in full control of your medical needs.

I haven't proof read above , my pancakes are ready.
 

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Garlic Bud expert said:
I used a Hortilux-Super Blue MH for Veg and flowering

Since the 80s, even today this bulb is used in professional horticulture across the board.
250.00 bulb. Ballast doesn't cost much, I've used the same bulb for years, I'd say every 3 years replace one. You can find the bulb 178.00

Simple reason why professional use them, plant health diagnosis, in any other light source deficiency will hide longer than the Hortilux-Super Blue.

Meaning You can see flaws better under this unique lights.
Terps explode strong, you'll get an exact replica of an outdoor grown plant.
Click to expand...

If the Hortilux Super Blue really was the pinnacle of flowering quality, you'd still see them in use by winners of Emerald Cup or Spannabis. But most of them have gone LED, even the old-school breeders are switching over.

Most recent Cannabis Cup winners (2019–2024) increasingly use high-end full-spectrum LEDs

Some legacy winners from the 2010s did use CMH or HPS, often combined with heavy CO₂ and environmental control, but rarely MH or dual-arc bulbs like the Hortilux Super Blue.
Masonic Smoker, Compound Genetics, Jungle Boys, and Connected Cannabis Co. — known for top-tier flower — have either switched to LEDs or hybrid LED/CMH setups in recent years.

According to the 2023 State of the Cannabis Lighting Market report by Cannabis Business Times, LED lighting has become the predominant choice among commercial cannabis growers:

- 73% of commercial cultivators reported using LEDs for flowering in 2023, up from 15% in 2016.
- 62% of growers cited "crop quality" as the primary reason for adopting LED technology, surpassing considerations like yield (16%) and energy efficiency (12%).

DogHouse Supreme Cannabis, a five-time Dope Cup award winner, has transitioned to using Sunscape LED lighting systems. The cultivator reported significant benefits, including up to a 70% reduction in electricity usage and enhanced terpene production, particularly during the final two weeks of flowering .
 
Hortilux Blue really "Shined" as a Veg lamp.
Had certain circumstance gone a different direction on a global scale I am sure the conversation would be different at this point.
Just a few things I could have seen making a difference in the way tech has shifted - energy prices would have had to remain constant or go down (fantasy land), Lamps would have had to become cheaper to offset replacement costs vs lifespan of led technologies.
I love HID lamps myself and led's.
Only a foolish grower would ignore their wallet and when Hortilux shut down that was a nail in the HID coffin as far as I am concerned.
Sure there are some HID lamps still floating around in warehouses and grow shops out there but that supply will inevitably dry up.
Just look at the limited selection of HID fixtures available compared to years past. :peace:
 
This flower was grown under Hortilux Blue MH. No doubt the quality was supreme.
You would need more watts of the MH to match the ppfd of HPS and especially modern LED's.
Them Damn Utility Bills!!!

img_8130-jpg.4781849
 
OneHitDone said:
This flower was grown under Hortilux Blue MH. No doubt the quality was supreme.
You would need more watts of the MH to match the ppfd of HPS and especially modern LED's.
Them Damn Utility Bills!!!

img_8130-jpg.4781849
Click to expand...
Very nice, the main quality a SB gives is outdoor quality flowers. Diffused light from Mylar and big hoods help overall to lower cost and raise yield.
 
OneHitDone said:
Hortilux Blue really "Shined" as a Veg lamp.
Had certain circumstance gone a different direction on a global scale I am sure the conversation would be different at this point.
Just a few things I could have seen making a difference in the way tech has shifted - energy prices would have had to remain constant or go down (fantasy land), Lamps would have had to become cheaper to offset replacement costs vs lifespan of led technologies.
I love HID lamps myself and led's.
Only a foolish grower would ignore their wallet and when Hortilux shut down that was a nail in the HID coffin as far as I am concerned.
Sure there are some HID lamps still floating around in warehouses and grow shops out there but that supply will inevitably dry up.
Just look at the limited selection of HID fixtures available compared to years past. :peace:
Click to expand...
The HORTILUX™ Super Blue lamp is environmentally friendly in that it passes EPA, TCLP test criteria as non hazardous waste. We did test with 12,000 K MH and increased potency and trichomes the last 8 days.

You can use a 10,000 K too.

I like 4600 to 4800 K MH in flowering. It's like holding and smoking an outdoor grown bud.
 
Garlic Bud expert said:
The HORTILUX™ Super Blue lamp is environmentally friendly in that it passes EPA, TCLP test criteria as non hazardous waste. We did test with 12,000 K MH and increased potency and trichomes the last 8 days.

You can use a 10,000 K too.

I like 4600 to 4800 K MH in flowering. It's like holding and smoking an outdoor grown bud.
Click to expand...
But for practical sense with the state of energy costs unfortunately Metal Halide is from a Bye Gone Era. :(
Trust me, I also held on till the end with HID.
Hortilux throwing in the towel and stopping production of all of those lamps was the tell tale sign where the industry is headed :peace:
 
OneHitDone said:
But for practical sense with the state of energy costs unfortunately Metal Halide is from a Bye Gone Era. :(
Trust me, I also held on till the end with HID.
Hortilux throwing in the towel and stopping production of all of those lamps was the tell tale sign where the industry is headed :peace:
Click to expand...

Hortilux-Super blue bulbs, specifically metal halide (MH) lamps, are used by professionals in plant physiological research and the biotechnology/pharmacology industries.

They are also utilized by individuals in indoor plant growing who want to replicate the benefits of natural sunlight.
Why i use them for an exact replica of an outdoor plant grown indoors.

These bulbs are favored for their ability to provide a balanced light spectrum, optimizing plant growth and yield, especially during the vegetative stage.

Plant Physiology Research:
Hortilux-Blue lamps are used in scientific research to study plant responses to light, photosynthesis, and other plant processes.
Biotechnology/Pharmacology:

These lamps are also employed in biotechnology and pharmacology to grow plants for research, medicinal applications, or for the extraction of compounds.

The Hortilux-Super Blue will never go away, they haven't thrown the towel in yet.

Bulb and Ballast are very affordable compared to other methods. I get about 4 to 5 years of use from one.

About 300 and you get a great light system. I've tried LED , but I use a 4 foot 5000 K LED shop light to raise plants in veg. With reflective material mylar or Aluminum foil dull side out.

I save a lot of money and the plants look better than any method I try. Including HID and big LED light.

4 to 5 inches of soil in pots, this one is in the transplant stage, now I can put the plant into the garden or transplant into a bigger pot.

Sometimes I just add more dirt below, pull the plant up and add it below, They grew super fast this method.

I had 2 1000 watt HID and the heat going for the home from winter and the bill was 300 dollars a month.

I dont see hardly a difference in my bill using them.

20240405_140950-1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Garlic Bud expert said:
Hortilux-Super blue bulbs, specifically metal halide (MH) lamps, are used by professionals in plant physiological research and the biotechnology/pharmacology industries.

They are also utilized by individuals in indoor plant growing who want to replicate the benefits of natural sunlight.
Why i use them for an exact replica of an outdoor plant grown indoors.

These bulbs are favored for their ability to provide a balanced light spectrum, optimizing plant growth and yield, especially during the vegetative stage.

Plant Physiology Research:
Hortilux-Blue lamps are used in scientific research to study plant responses to light, photosynthesis, and other plant processes.
Biotechnology/Pharmacology:

These lamps are also employed in biotechnology and pharmacology to grow plants for research, medicinal applications, or for the extraction of compounds.

The Hortilux-Super Blue will never go away, they haven't thrown the towel in yet.

Bulb and Ballast are very affordable compared to other methods. I get about 4 to 5 years of use from one.

About 300 and you get a great light system. I've tried LED , but I use a 4 foot 5000 K LED shop light to raise plants in veg. With reflective material mylar or Aluminum foil dull side out.

I save a lot of money and the plants look better than any method I try. Including HID and big LED light.

4 to 5 inches of soil in pots, this one is in the transplant stage, now I can put the plant into the garden or transplant into a bigger pot.

Sometimes I just add more dirt below, pull the plant up and add it below, They grew super fast this method.

I had 2 1000 watt HID and the heat going for the home from winter and the bill was 300 dollars a month.

I dont see hardly a difference in my bill using them.

View attachment 5465212
Click to expand...
"Eye Hortilux, a division of EYE Lighting International, ceased operations in mid-2023. The company announced it would wind down due to supply chain issues, rising costs, and a shift toward LED products, which made continuing their HID lamp business unsustainable. They stopped accepting orders for assembled items and focused on selling off remaining inventory of Eye Lighting and Hortilux branded products.However, there are conflicting indications from some sources. For instance, Hortilux's website (hortilux.com) and related social media presence suggest ongoing activity in providing LED, HPS, and hybrid grow light solutions, particularly in international horticulture and indoor farming. Additionally, products branded as Eye Hortilux are still available for purchase through various retailers like Amazon, eBay, and hydroponics suppliers, though these could be from existing stock.Given the closure announcement from reliable sources in 2023, it’s likely that Eye Hortilux’s U.S. operations have shut down, but the brand or its products may still be active through international divisions or remaining inventory. For definitive confirmation, you could contact Hortilux directly via their website or at 877-905-2562."

Maybe you have some insider info that the rest of us are unaware of regarding Hortilux lamps still being produced?
If so, please do shed some Light on it! :peace:
 
No LED can match HIDs in finished product, it might yield more because leds are kings of spreading light, but it ends there
Lacking spectrum, high amounts of emf radiation,
The best growers in the world knows this simple logic, as close to the sun as possible is what's best, and LEDs are a far cry from that.
I've switched to LEDs for 1 run, saw the results and laughed my ass off before I tossed that hazardous radiating destructive panel in the trash.
People don't understand basic fundamentals
LEDs emitt high doses of microwave radiation
Which kills their gains, trichomes, their health
Do not use LEDs if you value your and your plants health.
I'm in Thailand now smoking all this led bud everyone is growing, the weed and hash here is some serious bunk shit,
My non keepers at home under my HPS are far better then the best of best cut grown under LEDs.
All the science shows just that aswell, no Allicin in garlic under LEDs, no essential oils extract from Lavender and if I search more I'll bet there's plenty more examples of LEDs failing to deliver in other plants, not just weed
Again, the best growers knows simple logic, the sun dictate this logic, LEDs just don't follow it
If you prefer listening to LEDs salesman such as Rocket Soul for instance
Don't ponder why your product is lacking
 
PTS.Genetics said:
No LED can match HIDs in finished product, it might yield more because leds are kings of spreading light, but it ends there
Lacking spectrum, high amounts of emf radiation,
The best growers in the world knows this simple logic, as close to the sun as possible is what's best, and LEDs are a far cry from that.
I've switched to LEDs for 1 run, saw the results and laughed my ass off before I tossed that hazardous radiating destructive panel in the trash.
People don't understand basic fundamentals
LEDs emitt high doses of microwave radiation
Which kills their gains, trichomes, their health
Do not use LEDs if you value your and your plants health.
I'm in Thailand now smoking all this led bud everyone is growing, the weed and hash here is some serious bunk shit,
My non keepers at home under my HPS are far better then the best of best cut grown under LEDs.
All the science shows just that aswell, no Allicin in garlic under LEDs, no essential oils extract from Lavender and if I search more I'll bet there's plenty more examples of LEDs failing to deliver in other plants, not just weed
Again, the best growers knows simple logic, the sun dictate this logic, LEDs just don't follow it
If you prefer listening to LEDs salesman such as Rocket Soul for instance
Don't ponder why your product is lacking
Click to expand...
Grow with whatever you like man. If youre growing bunk weed under leds try better leds. I have no qualms with HID bud, its also nice and i will happily admitt that the standard growleds of today dont give good enough results for my taste. But that only means build something better to me.
Youve tried one led. And buds from leds grown under the same spectrum. Of course the results will be similar. Ive tried bad hid buds but that doesnt mean i think every hid grow is shit.
Plants do not care what light theyre being lit by, they care about the intensity and spectrum, period.
 
His brain has gotten bad case of microwave radiation, likely from the LED he was using.
But forgive him brothers, for he doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
I still use the old technology because I refuse to pay around $700 for leds that covers a 6x6 area. I would need 4 of them for both veg and flower, combined. Shit, at the hydro store they had one that they wanted $1100 for! I hate change.
 
Mason Jar 92705 said:
I still use the old technology because I refuse to pay around $700 for leds that covers a 6x6 area. I would need 4 of them for both veg and flower, combined. Shit, at the hydro store they had one that they wanted $1100 for! I hate change.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately / Fortunately Hydro stores are all but dead for the most part in Cali. No more over charging for things like LED's but also no local place to run and grab a few things.
What are you spending on bulbs over a couple years in the space each led would cover?
 
Garlic Bud expert said:
I used a Hortilux-Super Blue MH for Veg and flowering
View attachment 5462103
Since the 80s, even today this bulb is used in professional horticulture across the board.
250.00 bulb. Ballast doesn't cost much, I've used the same bulb for years, I'd say every 3 years replace one. You can find the bulb 178.00

Simple reason why professional use them, plant health diagnosis, in any other light source deficiency will hide longer than the Hortilux-Super Blue.

Meaning You can see flaws better under this unique lights.
Terps explode strong, you'll get an exact replica of an outdoor grown plant.

The actual goal for a Cannabis plant. High and low K value stretch and shorter height, which for HPS this can shorten the stretch.

With the MH bulb. I reduce the stretch and get a more dense product. Even with color that HPS doesn't exhibit in the final product.

Since the 80s the HSB bulb is the greatest light source other than the sun.
I Super cropped a 2 limb plant day 1 flowering, the mains are on the left and right outside, the middle is the lower. This is penetration i would image what the description says about HID
View attachment 5462107

Then there's diffused light, MH in flowering, big buds everywhere, lots of lights spaced out, instead of packed in.

Have you ever seen the power of the right HID system?
How about a 8000k MH last week of flowering? 10,000K last days?

Weed was better back in the day, because it was grown better indoors than it is today.

The carbon footprint was way lower and a very efficient solution to Cannabis not grown under the sun.

Overfeeding will ruin potency and taste. Cannabis will never be easy to grow, but it's like printing your own money, and being in full control of your medical needs.

I haven't proof read above , my pancakes are ready.
Click to expand...
I use 2x Solacure Flower Power 4ft bulbs for every 4 x 4 and 1000w HID. The Bulb, is T12, and is 10,000k. I use them from Seedling-Flowering.
They are the most powerful UVA/B bulb specifically made for plants that I know of, and they can be run up to 80w. Standard is 32w-40w. They also have a built in reflector, inside the bulb, , as UVA/B, cannot be reflected by any type of standard fixture. I believe it is some kind of chemical process, inside the bulb, that will not absorb UVA/B. It also has specialized glass to allow efficient transfer of 280nm wave length., and it is most powerful between 285nm-305nm, and has a range from 280nm-385nm. 280nm is also on the line of UVB/UVC, and will also inhibit mold.
They also make way more powerful bulbs as far as general output, in the UVA range. They make 100w bulbs, that are used to tan Show Pigs, and to Age Wood, to make it look old/antique. But, are not Plant Specific. Also at T12, it has the biggest diameter bulb of all the fluorescent but will work in most any standard fixture. I bought Solacure Fixtures.
 
jimihendrix1 said:
I use 2x Solacure Flower Power 4ft bulbs for every 4 x 4 and 1000w HID. The Bulb, is T12, and is 10,000k. I use them from Seedling-Flowering.
They are the most powerful UVA/B bulb specifically made for plants that I know of, and they can be run up to 80w. Standard is 32w-40w. They also have a built in reflector, inside the bulb, , as UVA/B, cannot be reflected by any type of standard fixture. I believe it is some kind of chemical process, inside the bulb, that will not absorb UVA/B. It also has specialized glass to allow efficient transfer of 280nm wave length., and it is most powerful between 285nm-305nm, and has a range from 280nm-385nm. 280nm is also on the line of UVB/UVC, and will also inhibit mold.
They also make way more powerful bulbs as far as general output, in the UVA range. They make 100w bulbs, that are used to tan Show Pigs, and to Age Wood, to make it look old/antique. But, are not Plant Specific. Also at T12, it has the biggest diameter bulb of all the fluorescent but will work in most any standard fixture. I bought Solacure Fixtures.
Click to expand...
Dennis is a stellar dude. Definitely recommend for any UV lighting needs - weather growing plants or curing UV resins :peace:
 
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