LED vs HPS

Shaded420 · Feb 27, 2022

rootforme said:
I think it's you who are clueless to DLI. Do you think it's capped or something? Maybe educate yourself. Higher DLI equates to higher yield. Although not quite that simple.

Did 12 hours of research on DLI just to come back with this shitty reverb?

I don't know what you hope to accomplish by blasting your plants with DLI that is higher than you would see anywhere in the damn world. More must be better though right?

1212ham · Feb 27, 2022

If enough is good, way too much is always better!

Star Dog · Feb 27, 2022

rootforme said:
I think it's you who are clueless to DLI. Do you think it's capped or something? Maybe educate yourself. Higher DLI equates to higher yield. Although not quite that simple.

I'm open to learning, tell me about this DLI thing it appears to be working for you.

calvin.m16 · Feb 27, 2022

The loss in yield isn't worth the savings in electricity when compared to 1000w DE HPS. When the prices go below $1/watt I'll consider buying more, for now the 3 growers choice 720 are being used in veg..

Star Dog · Feb 27, 2022

I've just changed out a 250w mh for a 300w led

if I use all led to start with I'd bleach the canopy trying to get the temps right.

So I left the mh until the 2-3rd week 12-12.

Samwell Seed Well · Feb 27, 2022

calvin.m16 said:
The loss in yield isn't worth the savings in electricity when compared to 1000w DE HPS. When the prices go below $1/watt I'll consider buying more, for now the 3 growers choice 720 are being used in veg..

Guess ill find out.

I have 2 rooms both 16 x 20 under 12k leds and de hps 1ks respectively.

Leds are new but 70 plants shy of room 2, room 2 is unknown age Gavita DEs...

Room 1 also will not be perfect, where room2 is so far is doing pretty good.

calvin.m16 · Mar 2, 2022

Samwell Seed Well said:
Guess ill find out.

I have 2 rooms both 16 x 20 under 12k leds and de hps 1ks respectively.

Leds are new but 70 plants shy of room 2, room 2 is unknown age Gavita DEs...

Room 1 also will not be perfect, where room2 is so far is doing pretty good.

Hopefully you get good results but use a careful eye to look at the buds from the HPS vs LED once dried & trimmed, LED buds tend to be darker in color imo and have that compact small structure. Just not a big fan personally. Power Savings are cool n all but I'd be really pissed if I spent thousands of dollars on replacement lights and then end up worse off when I coulda just put that cash on my power bill and kept running 1000w DE HPS.

The only true 1:1 replacement for 1000w HPS that I have seen in LEDs so far that is name brand is the Gavita 1930e and that burns 800 watts.. Unless your at huge scale it's questionable how much your saving when it comes to yield per watt.. I know there are people who have ran stuff like "big bud" or GG4 under 720 watt LEDs and gotten ~2 lbs but other than that its' just bro's at the grow store saying they got 4 pounds off a 720 watt LED..

HPS for bloom I never will change.

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

calvin.m16 said:
The loss in yield isn't worth the savings in electricity when compared to 1000w DE HPS. When the prices go below $1/watt I'll consider buying more, for now the 3 growers choice 720 are being used in veg..

I don’t think a lot of these guys have run de hps they are on a whole other level compared to single ended hps, yield wise.

You can get led fixtures for 1 dollar a watt now (floraflex).

I’ve only done it once but I’ve hit over 4# a light on the de hps and regularly over 3. But I’ve got 10 ft ceilings and plenty of overlap from other fixtures.

The leds I got are 780 watts (gavita 1930e) and are super bright and provide some of the most even ppfd I’ve ever seen on a par meter. In comparison to de hps on a par meter it looks like the leds would straight kill them. But it doesn’t, I paid 1200 a fixture for lights that are at most equaling yield to the de hps (which I get new for 250).

Also some strains seem to kill it under led but I have several that that were not as nice.

I am not gonna take down 10k in lights just yet, but they are only getting one more run before I checkerboard them with de hps.

calvin.m16 · Mar 2, 2022

Apalchen said:
I don’t think a lot of these guys have run de hps they are on a whole other level compared to single ended hps, yield wise.

You can get led fixtures for 1 dollar a watt now (floraflex).

I’ve only done it once but I’ve hit over 4# a light on the de hps and regularly over 3. But I’ve got 10 ft ceilings and plenty of overlap from other fixtures.

The leds I got are 780 watts (gavita 1930e) and are super bright and provide some of the most even ppfd I’ve ever seen on a par meter. In comparison to de hps on a par meter it looks like the leds would straight kill them. But it doesn’t, I paid 1200 a fixture for lights that are at most equaling yield to the de hps (which I get new for 250).

Also some strains seem to kill it under led but I have several that that were not as nice.

I am not gonna take down 10k in lights just yet, but they are only getting one more run before I checkerboard them with de hps.

$230 LUXX 1000w DE HPS fixture with new bulb for $230 out the door here. I can very easily pull 3 pounds per/light with 1000w DE HPS where with 720 watt LED I was only getting 1.5-1.75 lbs and my friend who recently bought a shit ton of the 1930s sold them for half off cause he was so disappointed.

I personally feel like HPS bud smokes better than LED bud and also my BHO runs have been way higher yield compared to the LED trim..

I started out as an LED grower and am against them. I'm not someone stuck in my ways. I literally got 1000w DE HPS because they work better than any LED I've seen under $1000.

I love LED for VEG but for bloom HPS always has won on every level other than power savings. Your not saving money if your losing 20-30% yield.

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

calvin.m16 said:
Hopefully you get good results but use a careful eye to look at the buds from the HPS vs LED once dried & trimmed, LED buds tend to be darker in color imo and have that compact small structure. Just not a big fan personally. Power Savings are cool n all but I'd be really pissed if I spent thousands of dollars on replacement lights and then end up worse off when I coulda just put that cash on my power bill and kept running 1000w DE HPS.

The only true 1:1 replacement for 1000w HPS that I have seen in LEDs so far that is name brand is the Gavita 1930e and that burns 800 watts.. Unless your at huge scale it's questionable how much your saving when it comes to yield per watt.. I know there are people who have ran stuff like "big bud" or GG4 under 720 watt LEDs and gotten ~2 lbs but other than that its' just bro's at the grow store saying they got 4 pounds off a 720 watt LED..

HPS for bloom I never will change.

Read my post above, I mostly agree, but to play devils advocate on the bud size you were just talking about these were under the gavita 1930 e led.

But I do tend to agree that a lot of strains have smaller buds. So far animal cookies, white peach Bellini, and lumpys apple fritter cut are the only ones I’ve gotten big bugs from. The rest of the strains have been smaller compared to de hps. What bothers me the most is that I can’t just throw a mixed run in there and run with it. About half the strains I’ve run didn’t perform as well quality wise as the de hps.

bk78 · Mar 2, 2022

I caught a 10 pound rainbow trout once. never took a pic though

calvin.m16 · Mar 2, 2022

Apalchen said:
Read my post above, I mostly agree, but to play devils advocate on the bud size you were just talking about these were under the gavita 1930 e led.

View attachment 5094762

But I do tend to agree that a lot of strains have smaller buds. So far animal cookies, white peach Bellini, and lumpys apple fritter cut are the only ones I’ve gotten big bugs from. The rest of the strains have been smaller compared to de hps. What bothers me the most is that I can’t just throw a mixed run in there and run with it. About half the strains I’ve run didn’t perform as well quality wise as the de hps.

The 1930e is the true king of the LED game though. Especially with high ceilings. That bud looks awesome I gotta go smoke another one lol. People try saying that the 680 watt LEDs or the 720 watt are the "1:1 replacement" to a 1000w HPS. Completely false especially vs a 1000w Double Ended HPS.

LED are also really dumb to use in cold climates because you end up spending money to heat your rooms. So many variables to consider other than just the power bill and heat savings..

Where I live I've had inside air temps go as cold as 60 °F during dark hours.. Couldn't imagine how cold it would've gotten with LEDs..

Rurumo · Mar 2, 2022

I think part of the problem people are having with LEDs are just that they are much harder to dial in than HID. They are so powerful that it's easy to hit bottlenecks in your grow besides the lighting, like VPD, co2, nutrients, etc. If you just replace an HID with LED and don't adjust the rest of your grow, you won't take full advantage of it.

bk78 · Mar 2, 2022

Rurumo said:
I think part of the problem people are having with LEDs are just that they are much harder to dial in than HID. They are so powerful that it's easy to hit bottlenecks in your grow besides the lighting, like VPD, co2, nutrients, etc. If you just replace an HID with LED and don't adjust the rest of your grow, you won't take full advantage of it.

100% user error is all I ever see

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

calvin.m16 said:
The 1930e is the true king of the LED game though. Especially with high ceilings. That bud looks awesome I gotta go smoke another one lol.

I actually think that particular one is lacking bag appeal. But they are chunky af. And smoke decent.

Apple fritter lumps cut above the lighter and PBB black sheep farms cut below the lighter. These looks much better imo. But pbb is always smaller buds at least this cut.

bk78 said:
I caught a 10 pound rainbow trout once. never took a pic though

Not a rainbow but I remembered to get a picture.

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

Rurumo said:
I think part of the problem people are having with LEDs are just that they are much harder to dial in than HID. They are so powerful that it's easy to hit bottlenecks in your grow besides the lighting, like VPD, co2, nutrients, etc. If you just replace an HID with LED and don't adjust the rest of your grow, you won't take full advantage of it.

bk78 said:
100% user error is all I ever see

Yeah you guys know I’m a newb. Never touched a plant til I dropped 10k on theses leds. Lol

My rooms are sealed, I have mini splits, anden dehuey, trolmaster and any other expensive gadget I prob have it. Those buds I just posted were under led.

I’m still saying with 10 ft or more ceiling and more than a couple lights I prefer the de hps.

Tent grows, growers trying to cool with ventilation fans, or short ceilings all make sense to me to use led.

If your maxed out on amps and wanna cover more space I’d go led too.

But for me if I have the ceiling height and ac, I won’t be hanging any more led anytime soon.

I ran higher temps, higher humidity, and higher feed. You saw the buds posted above. I’m not saying they are trash. I’m saying I get better results from the de hps.

Horselover fat · Mar 2, 2022

Apalchen said:
I’m still saying with 10 ft or more ceiling and more than a couple lights I prefer the de hps.

I just grow for myself in a tent, but what I don't get is why not run shelfs if you have the height and want to produce a lot. A big investment for sure, but otherwise. Atleast over here floor area is expensive.

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

Horselover fat said:
I just grow for myself in a tent, but what I don't get is why not run shelfs if you have the height and want to produce a lot. A big investment for sure, but otherwise. Atleast over here floor area is expensive.

I know a guy running a commercial facility that way. I have plant count limits. And only 10 ft ceiling.

If I had 12 or 14 ft ceiling I’d condsider it. But from what I’ve seen and heard a lot of those guys have trouble dialing that in and it can get expensive. You pretty much need the shelving units to have built in ventilation between the two racks.

I am working on insulating another building now so I have more room for activities, lol. But can’t do much more unless I drop down to like 1 plant per light and veg for ever.

jimihendrix1 · Mar 2, 2022

calvin.m16 said:
The 1930e is the true king of the LED game though. Especially with high ceilings. That bud looks awesome I gotta go smoke another one lol. People try saying that the 680 watt LEDs or the 720 watt are the "1:1 replacement" to a 1000w HPS. Completely false especially vs a 1000w Double Ended HPS.

LED are also really dumb to use in cold climates because you end up spending money to heat your rooms. So many variables to consider other than just the power bill and heat savings..

Where I live I've had inside air temps go as cold as 60 °F during dark hours.. Couldn't imagine how cold it would've gotten with LEDs..

While Im an HID guy myself since they came out in 1977.

The HGL Scorpion Diablo looks to be the most powerful LED right now. Especially for the watts its pulling.

Its using the new Samsung LM310H EVO Diodes. Theyve only been out for 3 months.

The Scorpion puts out a whopping 2130umol, and consumes 650w. Its got a 3.2 efficiency rating.

My 1150w DE Gavita puts out 2100umol.

The Gavita 1930e puts out 1930umol, and is 780 watts. It has a 2.5 efficiency rating vs 3.2 for the HLG.

HLG is $1400.

I predict a whole lotta companies are going to start using these new LM310H EVO chips very soon.

Apalchen · Mar 2, 2022

jimihendrix1 said:
While Im an HID guy myself since they came out in 1977.

The HGL Scorpion Diablo looks to be the most powerful LED right now. Especially for the watts its pulling.

Its using the new Samsung LM310H EVO Diodes. Theyve only been out for 3 months.

The Scorpion puts out a whopping 2130umol, and consumes 650w. Its got a 3.2 efficiency rating.

My 1150w DE Gavita puts out 2100umol.

The Gavita 1930e puts out 1930umol, and is 780 watts. It has a 2.5 efficiency rating vs 3.2 for the HLG.

HLG is $1400.

I predict a whole lotta companies are going to start using these new LM310H EVO chips very soon.

I know people buy into the HLG hype all I’m saying is don’t switch out a whole room without testing out a few. I think they over rate their specs regularly.

GML just pulled down a whole room of HLG lights with only a few runs on them.

I don’t like the almost diy quality of the lights, did they ever start adding Ethernet ports for the controller hook ups?

LED vs HPS

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