LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Tyler123 said:
I am greedy, I want both! Anyway I am anxiously waiting to see the buds that these lights produce. I am not sure but I did not think that underwater plants were of the flowering type.
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What are u stoned or just thick....
These bulbs are for "coral" growth.. yes remember zoolanthe from school... plants that live in a symbiotic relationship with coral to provide essential nutrients to the coral polyps...
The education standards are lacking these days
Some aponogetons flower underwater...
Before you open your digital mouth to spout ignorance I suggest you google your thoughts before putting them in writing..
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

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Tyler123 said:
I think that you have misunderstood me. I think it is really cool that you are trying different methods for growing. If this works I too will be trying these bulbs. I have read the entire post and understand what you are trying to do. I am a born skeptic. I can't believe that engineers at GE or Phillips have overlooked the basics of photosynthesis and have not created a bulb for the horticultural industry. It seems too easy. If it works great job but for now for me it just seems that you proved it works but is it actually better than current methods I will have to see others yields. I know you say it is not about yields but big healthy viable plants yield more than weak ones. We will see and I promise I mean no disrespect. I think it is great that you are trying new things.
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Um these bulbs are made by Sylvania and GE just rebranded you must have missed a few posts there....we discussed manufacturers and found Sylvania makes these bulbs... this technology is NOT YET AVAILABLE in HID systems.. but IS on the horizon, and will be shortly replaced by plasma(.) period.
These companies dont make their own bulbs.. factories needed to make these bulbs are HUGE! and requite SH*TlLOADS of power... these bulbs make up less than 1% of total bulb sales world wide..
you would go broke just making these bulbs... so you have to make all bulbs..
now lets say you want to make your own bulb of whatever color,
go HERE http://amglo.com/ Go here fill out the form and they will make you a lamp...
Im pretty sure they will make you an HID lamp that will meet the exact colors i am using here... with a 1000W lamp
Now what's the formula of phosphors to produce it? because thats what they WILL NOT HELP YOU WITH!
So companies like Sylvania receive orders from whoever makes the fuji purple red sun etc bulbs and they happily make 100k bulbs at a time...
Trust me if i could afford it i would make a custom bulb... HOWEVER Plasma bulbs are and will be the future of HID lighting.. but in an led style application 8 100w plasmas will outperform 20 1000W HPS bulbs because Plasma light is intense over the ENTIRE spectrum, i will admit they lack in deep & infra red..
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Remember that actinic and uv help with resin production.. I would try to broaden your actinic spectrum like an aquablue plus if thats the only one you'll have.. Actinics are very necessary throughout the ENTIRE growing process. You cannot and should not IMHO use only the red sunf for flowering.. as they are not "flowering bulbs" They are part of a whole and work better "With" actinics than "Without"
I am not saying the plants wont grow of course they will.. but you will see a very clear difference once you complete the PAR specrum..
 
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PetFlora

PetFlora

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Heads Up: At least one of my Red Suns is bad. :wall: In just 4 days of use, the intensity has fallen to where it looks like my Quantum Bloom bulb.

I contacted Aquarium Specialties, alas no replacements are immediately available. That said, it will be shipped direct from mfg. :clap: I installed my other Red Sun yesterday. Hopefully it is OK. If not, what should I replace with? I have 2 Wave Lighting Coral Waves on order. They have a nice red peak
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
I linked the graph twice in my reply above... You can see it on their website or in the pic I posted.

FYI the graph is also clearly printed (with nm labels across x-axis) on the box when you buy them. I was in PetCo looking at them the other day.
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Psytranceorgy said:
I linked the graph twice in my reply above... You can see it on their website or in the pic I posted.

FYI the graph is also clearly printed (with nm labels across x-axis) on the box when you buy them. I was in PetCo looking at them the other day.
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Unfortunately those bulbs are the "walmart" of bulbs cheap you bet! bad phosphors... they loose their color fast and have very poor quality control... 4-5$ more you can get a quality bulb...
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

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Okay, just started flower period, bag seed six weeks from sprout. changed out two 454's for two Red Suns, leaving in the actinic and the 75/25 to accompany the 2 coral lifes and 2 fiji purps... I must say, the glow is more pleasant to MY eyes... anyway, I'll throw up some pictures as things progress for those looking for flowering results from these setups... but I won't necessarily be a good scientific sample as there have been a lot of variables that didn't get pieced together til halfway thru veg, including the actual aquarium bulbs...
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
AltarNation said:
Okay, just started flower period, changed out two 454's for two Red Suns, leaving in the actinic and the 75/25 to accompany the 2 coral lifes and 2 fiji purps... I must say, the glow is more pleasant to MY eyes...
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Actinics are hard on the eyes for sure... but plants love'em :) and thats what matters
 
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PROF XAVIER

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
Remember that actinic and uv help with resin production.. I would try to broaden your actinic spectrum like an aquablue plus if thats the only one you'll have.. Actinics are very necessary throughout the ENTIRE growing process. You cannot and should not IMHO use only the red sunf for flowering.. as they are not "flowering bulbs" They are part of a whole and work better "With" actinics than "Without"
I am not saying the plants wont grow of course they will.. but you will see a very clear difference once you complete the PAR specrum..
Click to expand...
Hey prOfesseur, new member to the rollitup community...am very pleased to see a thread on these bulbs. You are 100% correct in your ideas, trials, and thoughts on coral bulbs on plant growth. But just like the sun, the range of color isn't the only important thing. Remember, it IS about lumens, and the PAR spectrum, and an absolute even light distribution across the canopy, and heat distribution, and one that I feel is important is the CRI of the bulb, or color rendering index. If all of these can be joined into one super bulb, than the sun may have it's competition. The sun puts off 10,000 lumens per square ft., at 100 CRI, delivering all a plant can handle. With a full spectrum bulb, supplemented with the coral bulbs, you get the right amount of lumens, at the right PAR levels. Consider the T5 Badboy 12-16 bulb fixture with supplemental lights on the side.....maybe 2-4 coral bulbs in the main fixture..... Not sure if anyone has discussed this option.
Oh, and by the way, those fixtures can be retrofitted as one big cool tube, resulting in absolutely zero heat that can be placed an inch above the canopy for almost 7500 lumens per sq ft, when run with Co2 @ 1250-1500 PPM's, which is about the optimal level that an indoor grower can get, with right temperatures, and humidity..........who knows the possibilities!!!!
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
PROF XAVIER said:
Hey prOfesseur, new member to the rollitup community...am very pleased to see a thread on these bulbs. You are 100% correct in your ideas, trials, and thoughts on coral bulbs on plant growth. But just like the sun, the range of color isn't the only important thing. Remember, it IS about lumens, and the PAR spectrum, and an absolute even light distribution across the canopy, and heat distribution, and one that I feel is important is the CRI of the bulb, or color rendering index. If all of these can be joined into one super bulb, than the sun may have it's competition. The sun puts off 10,000 lumens per square ft., at 100 CRI, delivering all a plant can handle. With a full spectrum bulb, supplemented with the coral bulbs, you get the right amount of lumens, at the right PAR levels. Consider the T5 Badboy 12-16 bulb fixture with supplemental lights on the side.....maybe 2-4 coral bulbs in the main fixture..... Not sure if anyone has discussed this option.
Oh, and by the way, those fixtures can be retrofitted as one big cool tube, resulting in absolutely zero heat that can be placed an inch above the canopy for almost 7500 lumens per sq ft, when run with Co2 @ 1250-1500 PPM's, which is about the optimal level that an indoor grower can get, with right temperatures, and humidity..........who knows the possibilities!!!!
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Welcome to the forum. and glad to see you so excited..
2 issues... Lumens are a measurement of light responsiveness to the EYE... which is measured @460nm to 600nm NONE of which plants need... so its not @ all about lumens. again 100k lumens @ 500nm wouldent grow lichen... let alone plants.. infra red had 0 lumens yet 10k watts will burn your flesh!
Plants dont actually need a high intensity light source as a matter of fact plants can only absorb 20% of what the sun outputs.. high intensity light has caused plants to defend themselves with auxins oils and waxes against the harmful rays of the sun... Its also a proven fact that diffused light is more efficient for plant growth as photons are made to travel in all directions vs a single direction.. this causes the light to enter the leaf surface and interact with multiple layers of pigments to aid in photosynthesis...
The more surface area you provide the plants with light the shorter the distance the light travels the more effective it is! a single light source will never be more efficient than light spread over an area.
oh ya 2 CRI is oly the ability of a bulb to represent a specific color measured against a black body radiator and completely useless as a measurement for anything related to plant growth. sorry to burst your bubble on that one.. CRI is only defined for light sources that are approximately white.. ;)

I know someone is gonna say "the suns a single light source" and for him or her who thinks that ... i shake my head in disgust...
 
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PROF XAVIER

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pr0fesseur said:
Welcome to the forum. and glad to see you so excited..
2 issues... Lumens are a measurement of light responsiveness to the EYE... which is measured @460nm to 600nm NONE of which plants need... so its not @ all about lumens. again 100k lumens @ 500nm wouldent grow lichen... let alone plants.. infra red had 0 lumens yet 10k watts will burn your flesh!
Plants dont actually need a high intensity light source as a matter of fact plants can only absorb 20% of what the sun outputs.. high intensity light has caused plants to defend themselves with auxins oils and waxes against the harmful rays of the sun... Its also a proven fact that diffused light is more efficient for plant growth as photons are made to travel in all directions vs a single direction.. this causes the light to enter the leaf surface and interact with multiple layers of pigments to aid in photosynthesis...
The more surface area you provide the plants with light the shorter the distance the light travels the more effective it is! a single light source will never be more efficient than light spread over an area.
oh ya 2 CRI is oly the ability of a bulb to represent a specific color measured against a black body radiator and completely useless as a measurement for anything related to plant growth. sorry to burst your bubble on that one.. CRI is only defined for light sources that are approximately white.. ;)

I know someone is gonna say "the suns a single light source" and for him or her who thinks that ... i shake my head in disgust...
Click to expand...
I don't mean to argue with you, but lumens are perceived by the plant as well, why do you think so many people are so reluctant to growing with HPS??? It works because cannabis is a high light level plant. What the HPS growers dont' realize is that it is at the wrong spectrum and their plants could benefit from correcting this issure. Sure plants can grow using less lumens, but what if you could combine both?? Spectrum and lumens....exactly what the sun is. Plants can absorb different intensities of light depending on its' environment, which Professor Marijuana is very critical about, because with EXACT temperatures, EXACT humidity, and EXACT CO2 levels, combined with an avg. of 6800-7500 lumens per sq. ft., with the plant recieving the correct PAR levels, you can achieve results similar or better to Professor Marijuana who used 2000W, 60 plant aeroponic system, 80-100F, 55-60% R/H, and CO2 PPM's @ 1500. He yielded 11 lbs. in 45 days. And YES, diffused light is AWESOME!!! Look up ORCA reflective film. Hands down, by far, superior to mylar and all similar products. Maybe suggest changing out all reflective surfaces with this.
 
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