LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

growbuddy1 · Dec 14, 2011

pr0fesseur said:
View attachment 1101487 View attachment 1101488 View attachment 1101489 View attachment 1101490 View attachment 1101491
So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isView attachment 1101463photosynthetic is View attachment 1101468, so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?

That's awesome man! Props on taking it upon yourself to try something new even with the haters! That looks nice... are you getting high temps off those lights or no?

AltarNation · Dec 14, 2011

FYI guys, I think it would really behoove us all to find a subsitute for the UVL Red Sun/Life bulb. So far I have had to replace one which died completely... a second one is starting to discolor, going towards purple and less red... luckily I already had them send out another replacement for the one that was going funny... but get this... the one they already replaced (the second one, the replacement) is down to like 50% intensity.

So I guess I'll replace THAT one with the third replacement bulb instead of the off-color one...

Really would like to find alternatives to Red Suns.

UnderCurrentDWC · Dec 14, 2011

okthanks2 said:
The plant I have under the colored T5's is starting to get a tad weird. The leaves are really dark green and starting to get wrinkled. Any idea why this might be?View attachment 1934884 View attachment 1934916

Yes...... thats the way the leaves look under this light!
I would say it's from all the available P.A.R. light.
Super healthy looking to me!

hyroot · Dec 14, 2011

okthanks2 said:
The plant I have under the colored T5's is starting to get a tad weird. The leaves are really dark green and starting to get wrinkled. Any idea why this might be?View attachment 1934884 View attachment 1934916
Here is the same strain under a 1000w HPS Hortilux to give an idea of what the leaves normally look like.View attachment 1934886 View attachment 1934917

Are you letting your water sit out for a day or so uncovered? If so that does get rid of chlorine. But the water evaporates causing everything still in the water to become more concentrate. That causes wrinkled leaves. It's better to aerate and cover. Or it could be ph, or fluctuations in temp and humidity,

Calrt · Dec 14, 2011

AltarNation said:
FYI guys, I think it would really behoove us all to find a subsitute for the UVL Red Sun/Life bulb. So far I have had to replace one which died completely... a second one is starting to discolor, going towards purple and less red... luckily I already had them send out another replacement for the one that was going funny... but get this... the one they already replaced (the second one, the replacement) is down to like 50% intensity. So I guess I'll replace THAT one with the third replacement bulb instead of the off-color one...

Really would like to find alternatives to Red Suns.

Thats not good! With or without internal reflectors? I am running 3 without and they are about 2 weeks in.....I have heard from a vendor that the UVLs are not great lights....

organicbynature · Dec 14, 2011

Lucius Vorenus said:
The Fiji graph was posted back on like page 20 or so I think. It looked vastly different than the Purple Plus from what I recall.

That graph is for the nlite PURple and is mislabeled. There is no graph for the Fiji.

I hope nobody gets tired of reading that, I feel like it's important to keep reiterating so that we don't perpetuate the misinformation.

Calrt said:
Where did you get your Flora Suns from? Sucks about the defective ones!

If you want to order online, I recommend http://www.bigalspets.com/. Zoo Med bulbs are only $10 each with free shipping at $75.

Lucius Vorenus said:
4 for $20.....how ya like that?

View attachment 1935095

What is that? It's a T5? Funky looking graph, but lots of red! It would be nice if it had the wavelengths printed.

organicbynature · Dec 14, 2011

AltarNation said:
FYI guys, I think it would really behoove us all to find a subsitute for the UVL Red Sun/Life bulb. So far I have had to replace one which died completely... a second one is starting to discolor, going towards purple and less red... luckily I already had them send out another replacement for the one that was going funny... but get this... the one they already replaced (the second one, the replacement) is down to like 50% intensity. So I guess I'll replace THAT one with the third replacement bulb instead of the off-color one...

Really would like to find alternatives to Red Suns.

Did you see the graphs I posted two pages back (last post on p.159)? There's a red one.

growbuddy1 · Dec 14, 2011

So if I wanted to have a similar setup to the ordinal posts, which exact bulbs would I need? Could someone tell me what those are, I have a bulb guy from work so I just need the type / what they are, not where to buy them. I'm thinking about doing this idea with an LED hybrid setup.

growbuddy1 · Dec 14, 2011

pr0fesseur said:
i purchased the following...
UVL Red sun 630nm
UVL 454nm
UVL Super Actinic peaks at 420nm
ATI Pro Color 660nm
KorallenZucht peaks at 630 and 440nm

Nevermind! Found it.

Undercover Cop · Dec 14, 2011

AltarNation said:
FYI guys, I think it would really behoove us all to find a subsitute for the UVL Red Sun/Life bulb. So far I have had to replace one which died completely... a second one is starting to discolor, going towards purple and less red... luckily I already had them send out another replacement for the one that was going funny... but get this... the one they already replaced (the second one, the replacement) is down to like 50% intensity. So I guess I'll replace THAT one with the third replacement bulb instead of the off-color one...

Really would like to find alternatives to Red Suns.

I just ordered 4 of em! they come tomorrow. Other than 3000k and my coral/red waves they will be the only red strong tubes I will have. I did just get another Coral Wave and Reef Wave today

get my 4 red suns tomorrow then a 8x48" fixture to swap out for my 4x48" unit Im vegging with now. I hope the Red Suns hold up for me, I dont have any other UVL tubes to compare to, I know they're expensive as hell, but my cheap $10 WavePoints are holding up well. Anyone have a supplier for nLites PURple? cant find em anywhere w/ Google shopping/search. They have that elusive 660 spike

organicbynature · Dec 14, 2011

Undercover Cop said:
I just ordered 4 of em! they come tomorrow. Other than 3000k and my coral/red waves they will be the only red strong tubes I will have. I did just get another Coral Wave and Reef Wave today get my 4 red suns tomorrow then a 8x48" fixture to swap out for my 4x48" unit Im vegging with now. I hope the Red Suns hold up for me, I dont have any other UVL tubes to compare to, I know they're expensive as hell, but my cheap $10 WavePoints are holding up well. Anyone have a supplier for nLites PURple? cant find em anywhere w/ Google shopping/search. They have that elusive 660 spike

I should have said in my last post, the nlite PURple is no longer available.

Undercover Cop · Dec 14, 2011

Im reluctant to invest in Fiji Purples... without any verified SPD chart for em I wont risk my money when Coral waves look plenty purple but are primarily blue except for a far red (+700nm) spike which gives the purple tinge to an otherwise blue bulb.

Coral Wave is 3rd bulb up (bottom fixture), red/color wave is below it (much more pink, spikes at 610 w 547green spike). Top fixture has 2 6500k's and a Reef Wave Super Actinic 03 420 and Blue Wave SuperBlue actinic 460 (actually spikes at 436 but has a good wide blue streak)

Fiji's could be the same, who knows where the red spike is? I know that the 660nm phosphor is the most expensive... (green is cheapest, go figure) I do like the Coral Wave bulb's far red spike though as it helps to trigger the flowering response, but Ill have to rely on Red Sun's/3000k's/hort400wHPS for a complete blend of reds in my flowering box. Im adding 2 red suns to flower, and 2 to veg as Im lacking almost any red in my veg box.

hyroot · Dec 14, 2011

AltarNation said:
FYI guys, I think it would really behoove us all to find a subsitute for the UVL Red Sun/Life bulb. So far I have had to replace one which died completely... a second one is starting to discolor, going towards purple and less red... luckily I already had them send out another replacement for the one that was going funny... but get this... the one they already replaced (the second one, the replacement) is down to like 50% intensity. So I guess I'll replace THAT one with the third replacement bulb instead of the off-color one...

Really would like to find alternatives to Red Suns.

I have been using my redsuns for 16 weeks now and they are still going strong. Never had any problems. Btw you have to run them by themselves to see how they truly appear in color. When they sit next to a different bulb they appear a different color or shade. For example. The fiji looks very purple. When placed next to a redsun it looks more blue. The redsun is the only one I have come across with that much red at that nm and with no other wasted spectrums. I wouldn't believe anything a vendor or salesman at a store says. They usually talk out their ass and don't know the first thing of how light really works. I have had plenty experience. With dumbass salesman at aquarium shops and hydro shops that give the worst advice. I almost think that it's on purpose. So you will come back and spend more money when their advice backfired

Undercover Cop · Dec 14, 2011

organicbynature said:
I should have said in my last post, the nlite PURple is no longer available.

I figured as much, just like the ATI pro color. Not enough demand to justify the cost of producing/R&D for the 660nm phosphors. nLites website does have a TON of useful info related to PAR specific growing as well as other growing tips, last updated '08 :-?

http://www.nlites.co.uk/photoponics.htm#nanometric scroll to the top and follow the links around, lots of good info :weed:

Undercover Cop · Dec 14, 2011

hyroot said:
I have been using my redsuns for 16 weeks now and they are still going strong. Never had any problems. Btw you have to run them by themselves to see how they truly appear in color. When they sit next to a different bulb they appear a different color or shade. For example. The fiji looks very purple. When placed next to a redsun it looks more blue. The redsun is the only one I have come across with that much red at that nm and with no other wasted spectrums. I wouldnt believe anything a vendor or salesamn at a store says. They usually talk out their ass and dont know the first thing of how light really works. I hav had plenty experience. With dumbass salesman at aquarium shops and hydro shops that give the worst advice. I almost think that its on purpose. So you will come back ajd spend more money when their advice backfired

+Rep. Im sure they do! This asshole kid at the SOGhydro tried to explain why NOT to use Blackstrap molasses and why I SHOULD use Raw Sweet lol. uh, yeah cuz you sell Sweet for more than the cost of a human kidney. what a dick.

Same here, I cant find anything else with that much Red and very little else, and Im very Blue strong right now as my 8x48" t5 will come Friday w 4 10000k's and 4 460nm Actinics, to add to the reef/blue waves I already have. and almost every other bulb has plenty of blue in it already, so I want something STRONG in red for flowering.

cabbagesXradia · Dec 14, 2011

hyroot said:
I have been using my redsuns for 16 weeks now and they are still going strong. Never had any problems. Btw you have to run them by themselves to see how they truly appear in color. When they sit next to a different bulb they appear a different color or shade. For example. The fiji looks very purple. When placed next to a redsun it looks more blue. The redsun is the only one I have come across with that much red at that nm and with no other wasted spectrums. I wouldn't believe anything a vendor or salesman at a store says. They usually talk out their ass and don't know the first thing of how light really works. I have had plenty experience. With dumbass salesman at aquarium shops and hydro shops that give the worst advice. I almost think that it's on purpose. So you will come back and spend more money when their advice backfired

My red suns are going strong , no probs for a while now. Just some bad luck

organicbynature · Dec 14, 2011

organicbynature said:
I came across another older thread on THC Farmer where a guy is using some lights I don't think we've seen yet. Not quite sure what to make of these super-blocky graphs, but I guess the blue looks good:

View attachment 1935481

View attachment 1935482

They're Philips Primary Color lamps available from Advanced Technology Solutions, LLC (?) - link

Still no 660, naturally.

I'm bumping this because it seems like nobody saw it and the topic of Red Sun alternatives is coming up.

Undercover Cop · Dec 14, 2011

organicbynature said:
I came across another older thread on THC Farmer where a guy is using some lights I don't think we've seen yet. Not quite sure what to make of these super-blocky graphs, but I guess the blue looks good:

View attachment 1934676
View attachment 1934680

They're Philips Primary Color lamps available from Advanced Technology Solutions, LLC (?) - link

Still no 660, naturally.

meh, the blue heavy bulb seems like your typical and widely available actinic of course, and the red heavier bulb seems like it might be OK due to the lack of green, and the not so common 700nm spike, but the 610nm red spike is available in almost every bulb on the market with red in it. Its the standard. It is nice that it's weighted towards the red side, and the spike is kinda wide, but the Red Sun's SPD is gonna match with the PAR curve more. It will still work though, and might be a pretty good choice if its cheap. It would prob appear to be like a pinkish 3000k or a little more red than a coral wave... my guess

hyroot · Dec 14, 2011

organicbynature said:
I'm bumping this because it seems like nobody saw it and the topic of Red Sun alternatives is coming up.

i saw it and i went to the link. for $22 I'd rather use UVL and ATI . they are $2 cheaper

the blue one has wasted light between 480nm and 560nm and no uv-a or uv-b the UVL super actinic is $19.95 at my local aquarium shop. the redsun is too

organicbynature · Dec 14, 2011

Undercover Cop said:
meh, the blue heavy bulb seems like your typical and widely available actinic of course, and the red heavier bulb seems like it might be OK due to the lack of green, and the not so common 700nm spike, but the 610nm red spike is available in almost every bulb on the market with red in it. Its the standard. It is nice that it's weighted towards the red side, and the spike is kinda wide, but the Red Sun's SPD is gonna match with the PAR curve more. It will still work though, and might be a pretty good choice if its cheap. It would prob appear to be like a pinkish 3000k or a little more red than a coral wave... my guess

These are what they look like:

Also, the blue is not like a super actinic. If you look again, it's got the complete blue spectrum. Kind of like a super actinic and a 454 combined. I'm not saying that's preferable, but it's at least interesting.

What available (54w) red bulb has a better graph than this red bulb besides for the Red Sun (which either has an inaccurate graph itself or does not peak at 630 like they say)? I don't know, look's pretty red to me. Also, Philips is a good brand. It sounds like some of you are having trouble with your UVLs...

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