LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
hyroot said:
That looks like its being very under watered. Leaves curl upward and turn crispy and yellow very fast when they don't get enough water. Leaves do not fall off unless they are deficient. I'd say loosen up the top soil or till it. Then feed it more water. Pull off every single one of those leaves. They are diseased so and that's a waste of energy. Slows the growth of the rest of the plant

When I chop, every leaf is still green. I'm 100% oraganic and I flush for a week.
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When I do hydro, every leaf is still green also. In fact, my hydro crops never even get one little yellow spot on any leaf the entire time. Even when I'm flushing, the fan leaves stay green. It's pretty crazy because I've always been under the impression that you actually want the leaves to turn yellow because then it means that there will be no chlorophyll or nutrients left behind in your smoke. The plant uses up those extra nutes I guess. When I do soil, then the fan leaves usually turn yellow and fall off eventually, But they never get as crazy looking as these fan leaves are in this photo with all the splotches and what not. If the smoke tastes great though, you must be doin somethin right. If it tastes harsh though, I would reassess the situation and keep on farmin that herb. I always get more flavor in soil. I was doing some searching and came across this guy that was doing some LED trials. He made some conclusive observations about orange, red, and far red wavelengths and blue. He found that the far red(645nm) does a better job than the cherry red(745nm). It's a little difficult to follow but he has loads of photos and I know how much everyone here likes photos. Here's the site, please explain if you think you understand what his conclusions are about blue vs. red and all that good stuff.

http://www.ledgrow.eu/

Make sure you check out all of his setups and every other page.
This guy experimented with lighting for 5 years, he knows his shit to say the least!
He's pulling 100 grams off of only 60 watts of electricity! Unreal. He really seems to stress the importance of intensity vs. color stating that overall intensity is going to produce a bigger yield. Looks like he uses a 2:3 blue/red ratio for growing and a 1:6 for flowering, he only turns on IR wavelengths(745nm) after flower set and NOT right at the 12/12 flip. Going to put the Coral Waves away until the buds start developing and not before. Lot of people here are having pretty good results getting by with the red sun as the only red source. Thinking of going back to the red sun and doing something like 4 red sun, 4 blue plus, and the plant grow side lighting, UNTIL bud formation is nice and set and then switching back to the flora sun/coral wave/UVb mixture.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
well on a positive note, when i took the red suns out of the fixture and put in the coral waves the twisted leaves straightened out. I have 4 coral waves and 4 flora suns in there now and all the leaves look good(last photo i posted). the red suns seemed to make the leaves twist and cause some irregularities. it sure is cool how the slightest change effects the plants within 24-48 hours and then you are able to change it back to normal. i think i'm done with the red suns. it kinda sucks cause i have 8 of them. maybe some other strain will like them. i'm going to wait on those new ultra growth wave bulbs to try any additional changes. i'm gonna do the 50/50 coral wave, ultra growth wave because that will hit all the key wavelengths and i would expect some phenomenal quality growth. the coral waves sure look purple next to the super actinic. must be that IR peak in them. bleaching huh? not sure what would cause that. how hot is your canopy??????

SIGGY CHANGE
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Canopy was < 80*s. My guess is that one can have too much of one spectrum relative to the other spectrums. Maybe you had way too much 630 in there, and it was overshadowing the deep blues. Who knows? Just a thought. I'm going to stick the other CW back in but I only have position one available, so not sure it will be of much help/hindrance. It does seem to matter how the bulbs are arranged as well.

 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
haha yeah, i wouldn't have been able to figure that out from your posts lol. so how do you have them arranged in the fixture? i switched mine out AGAIN today to try out something new, 2 flora sun, 2 red sun, 2 coral wave, 2 fiji purple. i really need a fixture with like 12 slots in it. i would really like to be using 4 of the flora sun since it has the 660nm that is supposed to be so important. i would REALLY like to know how important that 660 really is. i mean, hps doesn't have any 660 any they still grow fat ass buds. it makes me wonder if those red suns are as good if not better than the flora suns. hmmmm, hey undercurrent, do you have a photo of a finished bud from your grow??????
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I was running 2 Red Suns , but within 8 hours of adding one FS (no other changes prior), tons of new pistils and trics appeared.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
Does anyone here realize that the aquaflora peaks at 630 nm. it does have a little red at 650. not much more than the fiji. i like the colormax more. it has 60% red at 660nm and has red running from 610nm to 700nm and less green. it covers Chlorophyll A, B, C.... it has more energy in the red rather than the blue like the others.....

View attachment 2029000View attachment 2029001View attachment 2029002View attachment 2029003
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? Looking at the Color Max graph, note the hash mark between 600 & 700, no useful 650+ on that graph

 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
mudminer said:
Hi. Are both of these plants cloned from same momma or did you grow from seed?
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They are clones from the same plant

PetFlora said:
Canopy was < 80*s. My guess is that one can have too much of one spectrum relative to the other spectrums. Maybe you had way too much 630 in there, and it was overshadowing the deep blues. Who knows? Just a thought. I'm going to stick the other CW back in but I only have position one available, so not sure it will be of much help/hindrance. It does seem to matter how the bulbs are arranged as well.

Click to expand...
I'm thinking now that the fixture was closer to the canopy than it should have been because it was only 2" away and the red sun was the only light getting to some of the leaves, so I moved it up to 10" as recommended by hyroot. switching to red sun/blue 50/50 today.
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
I'm gonna try this for now at least until flower set, then I will put in the UVb and switch out a blue plus or actinic for a coral wave??????????????????
Sure would be nice to use the spectrometer again to check out this mixture,
purple2.jpgpurple.jpg
 
mudminer

mudminer

Active Member
Wow,what a great thread. Considering the vastness of it and that your all still on topic without repetition (at least in the last 20 pages or so) shows your dedication and that your constantly experimenting trying to improve your set-ups. Id like to lurk and learn for a while, maybe ask a ? or 2 from time to time. Peace & all the best in your endeavors.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
When I do hydro, every leaf is still green also. In fact, my hydro crops never even get one little yellow spot on any leaf the entire time. Even when I'm flushing, the fan leaves stay green. It's pretty crazy because I've always been under the impression that you actually want the leaves to turn yellow because then it means that there will be no chlorophyll or nutrients left behind in your smoke. The plant uses up those extra nutes I guess. When I do soil, then the fan leaves usually turn yellow and fall off eventually, But they never get as crazy looking as these fan leaves are in this photo with all the splotches and what not. If the smoke tastes great though, you must be doin somethin right. If it tastes harsh though, I would reassess the situation and keep on farmin that herb. I always get more flavor in soil. I was doing some searching and came across this guy that was doing some LED trials. He made some conclusive observations about orange, red, and far red wavelengths and blue. He found that the far red(645nm) does a better job than the cherry red(745nm). It's a little difficult to follow but he has loads of photos and I know how much everyone here likes photos. Here's the site, please explain if you think you understand what his conclusions are about blue vs. red and all that good stuff.

http://www.ledgrow.eu/

Make sure you check out all of his setups and every other page.
This guy experimented with lighting for 5 years, he knows his shit to say the least!
He's pulling 100 grams off of only 60 watts of electricity! Unreal. He really seems to stress the importance of intensity vs. color stating that overall intensity is going to produce a bigger yield. Looks like he uses a 2:3 blue/red ratio for growing and a 1:6 for flowering, he only turns on IR wavelengths(745nm) after flower set and NOT right at the 12/12 flip. Going to put the Coral Waves away until the buds start developing and not before. Lot of people here are having pretty good results getting by with the red sun as the only red source. Thinking of going back to the red sun and doing something like 4 red sun, 4 blue plus, and the plant grow side lighting, UNTIL bud formation is nice and set and then switching back to the flora sun/coral wave/UVb mixture.
Click to expand...
First, let me say I am very positive about the near future of LEDs. This guy has closed the gap focusing on the real needs based on testing. I applaud him, and will consider one of his lights to replace my Sunshine Systems UFO 90, which works really well for vegging/cloning, although I now supplement with daylight cfls, as it is 90%+ red. My take on reading the link is, he is still experimenting with UVB no clear answer as yet.

2/1/12: Came across this on FarRed from his LED experiments Also R/B ratios: The Farreds are now On for the last 1,5 hour of the day and stay On for 0,5 hour after the Blue and Red are switched Off. 12-8, Stretching!! Switched off the Farreds, I will not use them until the last 5 weeks of flowering. Switched to flowering, 12 hours, also the Farreds are now On during the last 2 hours of the dayperiod and the first hour of the night period. The panels have stayed the same, 18 Reds and 12 Blues, the 8 Farreds are not in use until flowering comes. The Farreds run at a seperate timer; they switch On just 2 hours before the other Leds switch Off and the Farreds stay On for 2 hours after the others are switched off. Thus imitating the evening sunlight in the autumn. Since growth almost stopped, I switched to 6 : 1 Red/Blue ratio for the last 7 weeks of flowering. The Blue's are now running at 25% current, about 180mA. the added Red's are at 75% current, ~520 mA. The other Red's are at the normal 700 mA. A new Set-up, for the vegging period I am using 9 Red led's and 6 Blue led's on each panel. So quite a strong amount of Blue, I hope to get less stretching this time. Both panels have a neutral White led to complete the spectrum and prevent delayed flowering. After 2-3 weeks of flowering, I will reduce the Blue's to just 25% and turn on 6 extra Red's. January 26, 2 days ago all plants have been transplanted to the 40*60 cm box, and I switched to flowering. They'll be finished by March 29. I also modified the panels so they give 100% extra Farred and the Farreds will be switched On in all fases.
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
I changed again. One last time :)
3 Red Sun, 2 Fiji Purple, 3 Flora Sun.
The Fiji already has 420 and 470 plus the additional red that I want in the mixture. I will do a color analysis later today.
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Here it is, my final flowering light fixture! I'm happy with this setup since there is more red than blue now and I'm gonna go with this mixture for sure so that you guys can see what it does. No more changes until I add the UVb(unless they start to look like shit). I'm also happy I was able to toss in another Flora Sun since it's the only bulb I have with the far red that plants like. Final configuration is 3 Red Sun, 2 Fiji Purple, 3 Flora Sun, and the 130w of plant grow side lighting. The side lighting has 50/50 blue 460nm, red 610nm. It looks purple.
fixture.jpg
Color analysis,
fixture2.jpg
This is how the tops look under this light mixture,
top.jpg
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Undercover Cop said:
So I got my PlantGrows today, and of course one was broken. So until I get my replacement PlantGrow and new RedSuns, this will be my veg spectrum which will come into play in a few days.
(top down) ReefWave, Bloom, 10k, RedSun, PlantGrow, 10k, Bloom, ReefWave
Click to expand...
Looks nice!
I hate to say it but.............after only 24 hours I am not liking how the plants look. I've put the 50/50 Flora/Plant grow back in to see if the leaves perk back up. I've taken a picture with the previous light mixture so that I can compare and present the differences so that yall can see that I'm not trippin here. I know that plants can adapt to new types of light so maybe it just would have taken some time and the plants would have adjusted, but the plants looked like shit after only 24 hours with the new light mixture. My plants seem to hate the Red Suns.
They absolutely love the 50/50 Flora/Ultra and the only difference between the Plant Grows that I have and the Ultra Suns is that these Plant Grows have a really nice blue range that they put out and also some 630 red as well.
Here is a photo of my fixture with the 50% Flora Sun and 50% Plant Grow(These are an off brand plant grow not the aqua-medic plant grow). Also the spectrum that the Plant Grow bulbs I have put out.



I will take a photo of the leaves tomorrow with the 50/50 Flora/Plant to give them time to respond to the light. I will post both photos to compare.
 
C

Calrt

Member
BlueB said:
What happened to all your fan leaves? They are all yellow and crazy looking. Did you have a bug problem or heat? Do you think you are lacking in the far red spectrum? What is your opinion on the 2 fiji, 1 red sun, 1 blue that you are using? Do you think the plants are needing any other wavelength? There is no 660 in your setup, but I'm questioning the importance after seeing your grow and how juicy your buds look. Still, do you have any idea why your fan leaves got the way they are?
Click to expand...
The curling leaves were from the heat of the light I believe. I had the 660 for the last 3 weeks.
 
C

Calrt

Member
BlueB said:
Looks nice!
I hate to say it but.............after only 24 hours I am not liking how the plants look. I've put the 50/50 Flora/Plant grow back in to see if the leaves perk back up. I've taken a picture with the previous light mixture so that I can compare and present the differences so that yall can see that I'm not trippin here. I know that plants can adapt to new types of light so maybe it just would have taken some time and the plants would have adjusted, but the plants looked like shit after only 24 hours with the new light mixture. My plants seem to hate the Red Suns.
They absolutely love the 50/50 Flora/Ultra and the only difference between the Plant Grows that I have and the Ultra Suns is that these Plant Grows have a really nice blue range that they put out and also some 630 red as well.
Here is a photo of my fixture with the 50% Flora Sun and 50% Plant Grow(These are an off brand plant grow not the aqua-medic plant grow). Also the spectrum that the Plant Grow bulbs I have put out.



I will take a photo of the leaves tomorrow with the 50/50 Flora/Plant to give them time to respond to the light. I will post both photos to compare.
Click to expand...
You are going to stress your plants changing bulbs so often...you have me stressed just reading about it!
 
C

Calrt

Member
This is about 85% of my HPS harvestIMAG0653.jpgThis is about 70% of my T5 harvestIMAG0652.jpg

I would say the HPS is way more than double but I will have to wait for it to dry to know....the T5 batch it curing now, just over 1/2 gallon of volume fully trimmed. No weight yet. Smoked some last night and it was nice....:weed:
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Calrt said:
You are going to stress your plants changing bulbs so often...you have me stressed just reading about it!
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Tell me about it! LOL At least I have back ups going in another area. I'm really close to my plants so I know what they like and don't like. I know for sure they aren't liking the Red Suns now. Seems really crazy though ya know? You would think red light, is red light. Maybe these are a mountain kush variety and they like blue light more?
 
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