LED's.Are They Worth the Money?

WeeGogs

WeeGogs

Active Member
Fig said:
I've personally just finished my grow with two plants under a 400w h.p.s. and two plants under a 120w tri band L.E.D. light and the plants grown under the high pressure sodium had significantly more bud growth with heavier yields. The LED plants were darker, had significantly more resin, but only towards the top of the plant. The bottom of the plants did not receive as much light penetration to have a healthy yield.
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wait until you have a forest of plants to contend with say 100 plants in the smallest enclosed space possible. what is your opinion.
 
Hotwired

Hotwired

Well-Known Member
LED's work. HID's work. It's a matter of preference and what you want to use them for.

IMO, I like the 1000 watts better. I have not seen a bud yet that looks as dense as mine, as BIG as mine and as sweet as mine. Maybe in a few years when they get a bit better and the prices come down.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
R. Duke said:
recently i have started to give LED's a thought again because they have gotten less expensive in the last couple years. upon looking at the cost to reward ratio of LED lighting i believe that on paper these things have it all. More lumens, much less heat, annual savings on power costs, bulb life. It would appear thru the claims the maufacturers make that these UFO's out perform regular HID lighting in all categories. Is there anyone out there that has bitten the bullet and spent the dough and can shed some light on this topic? i really would like to know if LED lighting lives up to the hype? Peace!
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One reason you see lower prices is because there are a lot of really low grade LEDs on the market now, and they for the most part are the ones you see that are reasonably priced or cheap.

What it has always come down to with LEDs, regardless of pricing, is if you purchase top grade LEDs and if you purchase them in sufficient numbers and if you know how to use them and then use them right ... you will love them. If you do any of those things differently than that, you will wish you purchased HID lighting of 400-watts or higher.
 
B

BudBaby

Active Member
WeeGogs said:
1200 quid for light emitting diodes that cost 3 pence each in china, my god i am in the wrong trade tell your mate i will give him 1200 quid to show me how to make the lights. i wouldnt use them though. the benefit is heat loss and electric power usage (NOT) it took scientists great measures and lots of time to invent a lamp that copies sunlight almost exactly with minimal electric wattage power usage to grow indoor plants and the power needed to replicate the sun has the same system as the sun, to copy and create great natural sunlight we must Lest generate great power and heat. and if your arm was long enough to touch the sun from the earth BudBaby it would take 16 years for the pain message to go from your brain to your hand and back to your brain to tell you to pull it away with reflex (by that time there wouldnt be any arm), about the same speed as your thinking when you bought these lights, tell the god damn ebay conster to GTF. and i think it will be a long time in the future before you can copy a 600w-1000w dual spectrum bulb with a couple of hundred cheap plastic LEDs. and the message is in the lights themselves a couple of hundred watts. do you know how much amp usage and electric candle power that can burn and produce??? LOL led lights are brilliant for cheap powerfull synthetic light that produces a very very powerful spotlight effect that is great for reading 1 word on the page of a book in the dark from about 2 feet away LOL but no ooomph to light up the whole page and room with a brilliance of colour just like an hps lamp a light that can be so powerfull a small leak through your window can be seen by neighbours from the distance of a large football field away, not even 1000 LEDs could do this..

an afterthought :
and i thought we were in the dark ages using 600-1000w bulbs, but we are not, where we are in the dark ages is not using wind, wave, and hydrogen (which is easy and very cheap to produce) to generate our electricity to bring the price right down for the consumer that is you and me, that would get rid of the environment and cost hungry coal fired and nuclear power stations that demolish our eco system and the only pollutant by product from burning hydrogen is the cleanest water on the planet which is good for the environment as our planet has water in abundance anyway, sometimes you look at life from a politicians view and say to yourself, WHAT THE FUCK AM I THINKING ABOUT. politicians are fucking glorified private school boys whos forefathers put them in a position that they couldnt even comprehend to think about where to begin, so when you ask them a question there is always a look at someone else in the room,a pause, a stutter, a hand up to the mouth to cough or yawn, etc just so their overclassed brains can work out a very fast answer. and they always wink at each other and think the same thing, bullshit baffles brains, the same thought as your ebay salesman BudBaby and as long as their pockets are Full of cash££££££££££££.

not forgeting the vehicle power that can be produced from hydrogen wink LOL. a clean exhaust is a good exhaust. fuck i am off to bed. exhausted.

for those of you who WANT to learn,
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/tech/hydrogen

shit i woke after a nightmare, let us know what is happening from your journal in 2-3 weeks BudBaby from when you start your seeds, and i bet my plants are half the height of yours, twice the stem thickness, and four times the buds in half the time the time it takes to grow them at your finish line, and my lights are old fashioned 600watters, and i would bet an arm and a leg. (where the fuck is my crutch and my hook BB asked in a few weeks ) LOL. PMSL. signed the nutty professor.
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These arent made in China they are all custom built by the man himself, he doesnt use chinese led bulbs either.

I didnt buy these lights to enter a pissing competition anyway, they suit my needs and i know they are the very best led bulbs money can buy. Everyone has different needs and for me the power saving will more than make up for any reduction in yeild if there is any. Im confident these will produce similar results to a 600 wat HPS.

I rekon after a grow or two i will be able to acheive 1.5g per watt which will more than cover my needs.

Obviously LED's arent for you but to just make sweeping statements that my lights are chinese is wrong, you dont even know who i got them off. You get what you pay for in life and i believe these are among the best led lights on the market.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
BudBaby said:
These arent made in China they are all custom built by the man himself, he doesnt use chinese led bulbs either.
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Not to start an argument or sound like I am doubting you, but how do you know what you said to be a fact? Did you partially dismantle one and find a manufacturers name on the bulbs or might it be a case where the person who assembled the lights made a claim that you believe too be true?
Obviously LED's arent for you but to just make sweeping statements that my lights are chinese is wrong, you dont even know who i got them off. You get what you pay for in life and i believe these are among the best led lights on the market.[/QUOTE]

I have to wonder if they are up there with the quality of LEDs that NASA uses, ones that are not at all inexpensive. And as you said; "you get what you pay for in life."
 
B

BudBaby

Active Member
Brick Top said:
Not to start an argument or sound like I am doubting you, but how do you know what you said to be a fact? Did you partially dismantle one and find a manufacturers name on the bulbs or might it be a case where the person who assembled the lights made a claim that you believe too be true?
Obviously LED's arent for you but to just make sweeping statements that my lights are chinese is wrong, you dont even know who i got them off. You get what you pay for in life and i believe these are among the best led lights on the market.
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I have to wonder if they are up there with the quality of LEDs that NASA uses, ones that are not at all inexpensive. And as you said; "you get what you pay for in life."[/QUOTE]



I havent taken them apart no and im not intending to as i probably wouldnt be able to put them back together again so i agree i cant say for 100% fact so maybe i should have reworded it.

I corresponded with the guy for a long time before i commited and he convinced me with his knowledge and didnt make exagerated cliams of what these lights will do like some sellers, he advertises true wattage aswell which i also liked. Saying all this though the proof will be my grow journal so i dont know as yet. If i can get to 1.5g per watt i will be more than happy.

If i cant get up to that i will feel like i have been ripped off and will be the first to admit it. If he is a conman he is a very good one. Here is a link to his lights

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Custom-Made-LED-Grow-Light-Highest-Quality-140-Watts_W0QQitemZ250792931545QQcategoryZ43555QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo=LVI&itu=UCI&otn=4&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=8062154227535526593
 
WeeGogs

WeeGogs

Active Member
Al Dente said:
If LEDs are bad because they are presumably made in China, where are HID bulbs made?
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my hps lamps were made by venture lighting, and have made in germany europe stamped on them, so if the chinese made them then they must be based in germany too.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
Al Dente said:
If LEDs are bad because they are presumably made in China, where are HID bulbs made?
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If that was directed towards me, I believe I said something along the lines of most cheap LEDs are made in China and that compared to the higher priced ones are inferior, which happens to be factual.

When it comes to HID bulbs, well that would of course depend on the brand.

EYE Lighting International of North America, Inc. is a 105,000+sq ft HID Light Source
manufacturing & distribution facility near Cleveland, Ohio.

As for others ... check them out if you care to know where they are manufactured.
 
Al Dente

Al Dente

Member
Hortilux, Digilux, anyone use these? Made in China from what I could see on the www. Sunmaster, Solarmax too. These are all heavily advertised on the indoor gardening market. GE cfl appear to be Chinese, don't know about HID. So far all the ones I checked look like they're made in China, or can't find any origin info.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
Al Dente said:
Hortilux, Digilux, anyone use these? Made in China from what I could see on the www. Sunmaster, Solarmax too. These are all heavily advertised on the indoor gardening market. GE cfl appear to be Chinese, don't know about HID. So far all the ones I checked look like they're made in China, or can't find any origin info.
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Hortilux is Eye Hortilux and this comes directly from it's website.

EYE Lighting International of North America, Inc. is a 105,000+sq ft HID Light Source
manufacturing & distribution facility near Cleveland, Ohio serving the Commercial & Industrial,
OEM, Utility, Retail, Solar manufacturing and Automotive business in the North, Central & South
American markets.

http://www.eyelighting.com/company_profile.pdf


I was curious about the PHILIPS / Son Agro bulbs but could not find anything on their website about where they are manufactured so I called their 800 number and spoke to someone in technical support and was told that depending on what wattage their HID bulbs are made in the U.S. or in Europe, though where in Europe was not specified and I did not ask, but their T5's are made in India.
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
FutureLEDGrowth said:
LED Technology has come a long way in the last two years. When choosing and LED light there are certain crucial elements. Here they are:

1) LED Chip: You will get many companies advertising that they use CREE LED in their lights. They don't. CREE do not manufacture an LED in the Blue or Red spectra used for growing. Look for the two main players BridgeLux (USA) and Epistar (Taiwan). BridgeLux only make LEDs suitable for Blue wavelengths, Epistar make Red. These are top quality LEDs.
2) Diode Type: The most efficient LED in the world is the 1W High Powered 10mm diode. 2W and 3W chips will give off more individual intensity but are FAR less efficient. Therefore a light with 100 1W LEDs is putting out much more PAR than a light with 33 x 3W LEDs.
3) Wavelength: You need to target Chlorophyll and Carotenoid peaks. Do not go overboard with the number of wavelengths. This is counterproductive and will defeat the object of targetting wavelength. 5 bands is what you will need. Any more and you are merely wasting light and not devoting enough to your important peak wavelengths. You have to keep an eye on your peak ratios.
4) Beam Angle: This will differ slightly depending on which power diode your light uses but with a 1W High Powered light 30° maximum.
5) Heat Dissipation: The chips MUST be kept cool. Good heat dissipation is crucial. The larger the surface area and distance between LEDs the easier this is.
There are other details like power supply quality but these are the important basics you must get right.
With regards to yield, here is the rule-of-thumb. Don't expect your 120W LED to outperform a 400W HPS. It won't. At best, and this is coming from the developer of probably the most efficient units out there, your LED will compare 1:2 ratio. 300W LED to replace 600W HPS. Watt for Watt, quality LEDs are far superior, but unscrupulous manufacturers have been advertising erroneous stats and giving the business a bad name. When we install LED systems for commercial operations we use 1:2 ratio as a minimum.
LEDs are perfect for SCROG. Go 1:2 on a SCROG grow with CO2 (you don't need to exhaust heat constantly so you can run a sealed grow) and you will get exceptional results.
Any questions I am happy to answer info@futureledgrowthtechnology.com
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1. I agree, people are mislead about the amount of Cree in a lot of panels
2. 1w may be more efficient at producing light than heat, but I'm pretty sure they don't produce more PAR than a 3w diode run at 2w (1w diodes also don't throw out PAR as far so you have to keep the lights closer or grow a thinner canopy). You can grow amazing pot with 1w, but its easier with 3w
3. I agree 5 bands is optimal and definitely enough, but the best looking harvest I've seen were with 12 spectrum panels (that target more peaks than 5), the difference might not be enough to justify the costs for most people though
4. Yeah with 1w that don't project far you will want to keep the angle extremely tight because the panel must be close. I definitely would tell people to avoid panels that are mostly 120 degrees, and to aim for 60-90 if using 3w diodes
5. Yup, I would advise people to never buy an LED panel without its own cooling fans to be safe (and because most that don't seem like crap). And I completely agree with you about LED at best being 1:2 against HID (the guy that sold me mine said it was about 1/3rd better than HID watt for watt, and that seems very believable with what I've seen Irishboy do). LEDs are best suited for SCROG I also agree on that (especially with 1w panels that don't get the penetration of 3w panels). And The CO2 trick is true too, LEDs seem to produce 75% less heat per watt than HID so you can definitely get away without exhausting heat for a lot longer!*

* I have a 395w (252x3w(1.52)+12w(fans)=395) lol
That thing can run in my sealed bedroom (tent exhausts into bedroom) for 4 or 5 hours before raising the ambient temperature of my bedroom 5 degrees. I'm sure a panel of 252 1w diodes would run a lot cooler even, but it definitely wouldn't be as powerful a panel
 
K

K11ng

Member
IMAG0248.jpgwell I'm not here to argue about who's equipment is made by some Asian, even thou 99% of the shit in everyones house is made in china but i guess ill let you people debate over that. anyway I'm here because Ive done tons of research on LEDs and who to go with. I'm not telling anyone what to do but from my personal experience with the guys who made these lights so far I'm nothing but happy. In saying that I went with stealthgrow for one they are led guys meaning they know there shit, second, they are growers, Ive seen first hand in my trips to LA, third they showed me and told me what i needed to here. so i literally, this week received my $5000 investment, 2 x sg602 and 1 x sg602 veg. Now as far as HIDs go, we know what they do and we know they do it well, now what if you don't have the option to use them, no need to go into details, thats why I'm running leds.... well i will try and keep progress updated but I'm not the guy to boast and brag and tell the world look at me, i cant keep my mouth shout and thats why I'm dealing with the consequences. follow the trail and you'll have results
 
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