Lets be honest and talk about microbes there use, affects and cost

GanjaJack said:

I've done the EzCloner as well. Using microbes and their cloning solution. I split the stem as Cervante suggested... I usually end up with roots in 4 days... Or slime... One or the other. Depending on temperature which is extremely difficult to keep dialed in exactly in my grow due to fluctuating winter temps.....

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You can probably avoid the slime with H2O2 or a mild bleach solution. If the water gets too warm it's very difficult to avoid bad guys growing in there.

Have you found a hormone additive (IPA based) to dissolve in the water? I'm hesitant to put Clonex gel on the stems that go in the aero cloner. Just can't find anything equivalent that would go directly in the water.

ComputerSaysNo said:

You can probably avoid the slime with H2O2 or a mild bleach solution. If the water gets too warm it's very difficult to avoid bad guys growing in there.

Have you found a hormone additive (IPA based) to dissolve in the water? I'm hesitant to put Clonex gel on the stems that go in the aero cloner. Just can't find anything equivalent that would go directly in the water.

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Nope, I just went to the black gold seedling mix.. it works every time, for me. Once I got on that bicycle I've never went another route.

I am going to start experimenting next, to see how small of a clone I can take using Black Gold seedling mix, just to experiment a little.

The gel in the EZ Cloner does two things, it provides microbes directly to the cutting, and also seals the hole up in the cutting so you don't get an air-bubble(embolism?) in the stem that ends up killing the clone.

Which I always thought... Then why in gods name am I splitting the stem half way up the friggin' clone if I am trying to avoid getting an air bubble????

Though I have to admit, splitting the stems, the clone produces roots at the split and on both splits, it just seems like a much better root structure for a clone than not splitting the stem?

But still knowing all of that I still don't split the stem any longer. It also makes them harder to pull out of the soil and see if they have started rooting yet.

GanjaJack said:

It also makes them harder to pull out of the soil and see if they have started rooting yet.

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Use jiffy pots (made of coco), and just wait for the root tips to grow through the pot walls. Then you know for a fact they're rooted well, and you can transplant the jiffy pot directly into the grow container. That also avoids transplant shock.

I prefer rockwool over coco or seedling mix because it's less messy and even more convenient. Also very cheap if you buy a single slab of rockwool and cut it into small cubes (maybe 5 cents a cube that way, or less even).

GanjaJack said:

The gel in the EZ Cloner does two things, it provides microbes directly to the cutting, and also seals the hole up in the cutting

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I'm just afraid that the gel will spread in the aero cloner and make a big mess or clog the sprayers.

ComputerSaysNo said:

I'm just afraid that the gel will spread in the aero cloner and make a big mess or clog the sprayers.

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With the 6 oz clear plastic cups. I just wait for the roots to show through on the side.. Sometimes I pull a clone out as its JUST forming roots and throw it in the hydroponics so that I don't have as much soil on the roots which is then in my DWC/clay pebbles.

I don't know why, I just never liked jiffy pots. They just never worked for me that well. I tend to over water them or get impatient.

As far as the gel goes.. I take my clone, dip dip potato chip... stick it right in the cloner, the gel is water soluble and it will dilute enough not to become a mess. I've never used the gel for soil, pretty sure that would cause a bit more of a mess.

GanjaJack said:

Depending on temperature which is extremely difficult to keep dialed in exactly in my grow due to fluctuating winter temps.....

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Have you used a heat mat with a digital thermometer ? This is how I sprout pepper seeds (warm) and spinach seeds (cold) at the same time indoors under a light.

GanjaJack said:

Sometimes I pull a clone out as its JUST forming roots and throw it in the hydroponics so that I don't have as much soil on the roots which is then in my DWC/clay pebbles.

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If it's DWC you're growing in, then I'd recommend rockwool cubes for the clones. They work really well. When rooted, just put the entire rockwool cube into a net pot and backfill with clay pebbles.

No problem with soil contamation, and the cloning gel works totally fine with the rockwool cubes.

Last time I cloned something we had ~20 cuttings off a Critical Kush, put them all in rockwool with Clonex, 100% success rate.

GanjaJack said:

I don't know why, I just never liked jiffy pots. They just never worked for me that well. I tend to over water them or get impatient.

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If you put coco into the jiffy pots it's actually hard to overwater them, because the water will evaporate in all directions (just as with rockwool). I guess plastic cups are much more difficult in that regard.

But in your case I'd go with rockwool anyway.

GanjaJack said:

I've never used the gel for soil, pretty sure that would cause a bit more of a mess.

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Nah, it's fine, it stays on the stem and slowly disappears while it dilutes.

ComputerSaysNo said:

I'm all for that.

I've found the following two studies on cloning:

• https://bclna.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/IPPS-Paper-pdf.pdf
  This is from Bruce Bugbee's lab; sadly I can't find the actual paper.
  It basically says "scraping helps a little" and "younger branches root more easily"
• https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjps-2018-0038
  I'm just reading this. It looks quite comprehensive and interesting.
  It says that "hormone is better than willow extract", "cutting leaf tips is bad" (I will certainly stop doing that), "position of cutting does not matter much" (that's in contradiction to the above study), "more leaves are better", and "rooting hormone/willow extract helps a lot"

Nobody appears to do stem splitting. In Cervante's book it is mentioned, I've done it too, not sure if it's important at all. I think Cervantes wrote something like "there will be earlier roots, but not as many".

Also, nothing on lighting conditions. I assume it does not matter. I don't think "low light" is important at all.

If somebody else knows of some scientific studies (does not have to be Cannabis, just close enough), I'd be interested in reading them.

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I didn't write a book and I've never bothered with a book on cannabis. I just do what I've seen done successfully for a long time.

ComputerSaysNo said:

If it's DWC you're growing in, then I'd recommend rockwool cubes for the clones. They work really well. When rooted, just put the entire rockwool cube into a net pot and backfill with clay pebbles.

No problem with soil contamation, and the cloning gel works totally fine with the rockwool cubes.

Last time I cloned something we had ~20 cuttings off a Critical Kush, put them all in rockwool with Clonex, 100% success rate.


If you put coco into the jiffy pots it's actually hard to overwater them, because the water will evaporate in all directions (just as with rockwool). I guess plastic cups are much more difficult in that regard.

But in your case I'd go with rockwool anyway.


Nah, it's fine, it stays on the stem and slowly disappears while it dilutes.

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Yeh the Rockwool cubes is what I ended up with worms in. I managed to pull the cube out after the plant over grew it and the thing was loaded with worms inside the cube as I pulled the rest of it apart.... So I moved to putting the clones into the DWC just as they start popping roots, without the cube.

Then I moved to soil. I tend to be a lot more successful with seedling soil over anything else so I stick with it. I'll get maybe 60% successes with rockwool but, I get near 100% with soil.

ComputerSaysNo said:

You can probably avoid the slime with H2O2 or a mild bleach solution. If the water gets too warm it's very difficult to avoid bad guys growing in there.

Have you found a hormone additive (IPA based) to dissolve in the water? I'm hesitant to put Clonex gel on the stems that go in the aero cloner. Just can't find anything equivalent that would go directly in the water.

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What's all this cloning clutter you're dropping got to do with microbes?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to discuss your cloning without microbes.
Can you you just try and stay on track here?

I quit using microbial supplements. You'll notice most of them have other boosters like Kelp and Humic/Fulvic acids. It's hard to know in that case if the benefits are from MicroBacteria or the Acids, Hormones, Auxins etc..

I'm going to have to go back and read this thread again when I have more time to focus. Just wanted to say that I've used alot of diff microbes and I was always on the fence about what or how much they were actually contributing. Started using Tribus and what it does to the roots is undeniable. Like night and day compared to the others. It's actually making me need to transplant my seedlings much sooner which kind of sucks because of space limitations but going to go with the "light" feeding instead of the "recommend" next time and see how that does.

calvin.m16 said:

I quit using microbial supplements. You'll notice most of them have other boosters like Kelp and Humic/Fulvic acids. It's hard to know in that case if the benefits are from MicroBacteria or the Acids, Hormones, Auxins etc..

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That's true, some of those are like a black box. You don't know what's in it, you just see an effect, short term usually.
Most of what I've got is for pests and pathogens as part of IPM, inoculating the new leaf growth rather than growth stimulator, that's just a side benefit.

Jay Unity said:

I'm going to have to go back and read this thread again when I have more time to focus. Just wanted to say that I've used alot of diff microbes and I was always on the fence about what or how much they were actually contributing. Started using Tribus and what it does to the roots is undeniable. Like night and day compared to the others. It's actually making me need to transplant my seedlings much sooner which kind of sucks because of space limitations but going to go with the "light" feeding instead of the "recommend" next time and see how that does.
View attachment 5076741

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I haven't tried Tribus, looks good
Specs/Label
CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENTS
Bacillus subtilis ............................4.0x109 CFU/mL
Bacillus pumilus ...........................4.0x109 CFU/mL
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens..............2.0x1O9 CFU/mL
Total: 10 Billion CFU/mL (1x1010 CFU/mL)

calvin.m16 said:

I quit using microbial supplements. You'll notice most of them have other boosters like Kelp and Humic/Fulvic acids. It's hard to know in that case if the benefits are from MicroBacteria or the Acids, Hormones, Auxins etc..

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It's not that hard to know. All you need is the non-microbial supplements, so you can give them to a control plant.
The algae based supplements and humic acid is easily available.

Anyhow, if the supplement brings an immediate and visible benefit, then why not stop asking questions and start applying it? I personally couldn't care less if it's the algae extract or the beneficial bacteria in the end (as long as the supplement is affordable; some of them are terribly overpriced, and they mostly contain the same things).

ComputerSaysNo said:

It's not that hard to know. All you need is the non-microbial supplements, so you can give them to a control plant.
The algae based supplements and humic acid is easily available.

Anyhow, if the supplement brings an immediate and visible benefit, then why not stop asking questions and start applying it? I personally couldn't care less if it's the algae extract or the beneficial bacteria in the end (as long as the supplement is affordable; some of them are terribly overpriced, and they mostly contain the same things).

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I feel like Xtreme Gardens Tea Brewz did good, I don't think they add more than compost to feed the bacteria while it's brewing. That definitely caused me to have more roots shooting through my pots. I'm definitely going to have to try Tribus. I take a lot of pictures so I'll do a dixie cup comparison with a half dozen plants, 3 cups will get no beneficials and 3 cups will get Tribus. I'll use a clear dixie cup inside of a black one so I can easily inspect the results.

Bigger roots bigger fruits is 100% true so if this stuff works why not use it like you said unless pricing is unreal.

I use Real Growers Recharge in Veg because the bacteria are that of NSB class - nitrogen solubilizing bacteria.
I use MammothP or Plant Success Organics (cheaper) in preflower to 3-4 wk stage in bloom because the bacteria are that of PSB- Phosphorus Solubilizing Bacteria.
I use Advanced Nutrients Piranha from wk 3 bloom to flush stage, because the KSB bacteria are that of Si , P & K solubilizing bacteria.
I'm going to be experimenting with purple non sulfur bacteria in the future, from what I've read purple bacteria is pretty wild & beneficial. Only type I can find is in Quantum Light.
Unless anyone can point me to a better source of purple bacteria..
I've witnessed what different myco, fungi & bacteria strains can do vs none & its night & day.

hotrodharley said:

Great White - very good but ridiculously expensive. All we are trying to do is duplicate nature and a natural environment. Including those of us who use peat. I have done enough side by side comparisons and the stuff is a bonus. Cloning - I take my cut. Scrape the outer layer of stem off with the edge of a knife. Split the stem about a half inch and dip in Clonex or honey and then in Mykos. Straight into Black Gold seedling mix in a Dixie cup. Then forget about it except checking to make sure it’s slightly damp. Try it. Works in straight vermiculite as well.

View attachment 4335448

$25 for 12 ounces. It goes a very long way.

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When you clone using Mykos and Black Gold in a dixie cup, do you use any kind of humidity dome?

I use the recharge thru the whole grow every watering. Sometimes triple the strength other than that I top dress during veg with earth worm castings and rock dust to help bring back what’s died off. I notice a huge difference when I didn’t use the recharge but have done just fine without it in the past. I defiantly see the rewards of using as to not using it.

Cannabisco said:

I use Real Growers Recharge in Veg because the bacteria are that of NSB class - nitrogen solubilizing bacteria.
I use MammothP or Plant Success Organics (cheaper) in preflower to 3-4 wk stage in bloom because the bacteria are that of PSB- Phosphorus Solubilizing Bacteria.
I use Advanced Nutrients Piranha from wk 3 bloom to flush stage, because the KSB bacteria are that of Si , P & K solubilizing bacteria.
I'm going to be experimenting with purple non sulfur bacteria in the future, from what I've read purple bacteria is pretty wild & beneficial. Only type I can find is in Quantum Light.
Unless anyone can point me to a better source of purple bacteria..
I've witnessed what different myco, fungi & bacteria strains can do vs none & its night & day.

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Any pictures of your plants that you have snapped in the past that you can add here. We all take pics..

Sure. I got some more I can upload on my Google drive.