profgrow
Active Member
Thats a less long-winded way of saying it, ya.
Let's talk serious SCROG
- Thread starter profgrow
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Psytranceorgy
Well-Known Member
Well said sir! I learned the hard way about molasses in hydro (in a waterfarm). At least it made me go and learn my ass off about molasses... (hell, and about hydro and root systems in general, for that matter...) Oh well, one of the most entertaining aspects of any hobby is all the fun learning that occurs =D
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
True that. Things can go to hell in a hand basket pretty quick when you start mixing sugar and organics together. You should swing by the DWC root slime cure thread. Lots of excellent info and a really knowledgable gang.
thunderbay
Well-Known Member
no there is no drain, built a cab, sat 4 pans in there to catch runoff that is soon sucked back into plant
ok i figured that was alot of plants seeing all the other grows. ive got four really strong ones so ill keep them and get rid of the rest to make some room. after reading what u wrote u made it alot clearer about grow scrog thank u very much for clearing that up.i still have a couple more ? sorry never grown indoors (outdoors only).first about making the tops is there two ways to get your tops topping or lst,or is it a little of both.do u top them then pull them down to train them or does toppin slow growth in the main so the smaller branches catch up. ok and second ? is about topping u say top every 3-4 inchs after the first toppin depending on internode spacing what do u mean about that?thanks and hopefully that question are not dumb
My setup is simular to yours - buckets set into tupperware tubs. When I water & get run-off I just take a wet-dry vac & suck out the extra.
Works like a charm !
profgrow
Active Member
Its best to top and LST, this way you get alot of tops and your branches spread out nicely.
Internode spacing means how much stem length is between each set of branches, if your leaves and new shoots are every 4 inches just top all new shoots, if they are tighter you can top every other set of shoots.
ok so i top them then pull it down untill the side branches get stronger then let the main back up or leave it.also can u topp the side branches like the main or no.and how many times do u top things without stressing it to bad and whats the best way to hold them down.thanks alot
mrt1980
Well-Known Member
hi sorry to be asking the same questions that others have asked before but im a proper noob lol
1 is 7 plants too much in a 1.2 by 1.2m tent, or could i just fill the screen quicker or just use the screen to train them and use less plants next time?
2 how big a screen would you put in that size tent with a 600w light?
3 would it cause any stress to the plant because ive heared that stressing out plants that have come from fem seeds could make them turn hurmy?
thanks
1 is 7 plants too much in a 1.2 by 1.2m tent, or could i just fill the screen quicker or just use the screen to train them and use less plants next time?
2 how big a screen would you put in that size tent with a 600w light?
3 would it cause any stress to the plant because ive heared that stressing out plants that have come from fem seeds could make them turn hurmy?
thanks
profgrow
Active Member
7 plants is alot for 1.2 m2, if they are small thats ok but its not really scrog at that point, its more like sog with a support screen.hi sorry to be asking the same questions that others have asked before but im a proper noob lol
1 is 7 plants too much in a 1.2 by 1.2m tent, or could i just fill the screen quicker or just use the screen to train them and use less plants next time?
2 how big a screen would you put in that size tent with a 600w light?
3 would it cause any stress to the plant because ive heared that stressing out plants that have come from fem seeds could make them turn hurmy?
thanks
A 600w can do just over a sq meter with a well controlled canopy.
Stress can cause hermying but scrogging is low stress, hermying mainly comes from temp stress, the only plant that every herm'd on me was kept in a 2x2 closet with an exposed 400w and almost no ventilation, temps were usually around 95 degrees (I was an epic noob at that point) otherwise I have been pretty brutal to plants over the years and never had male parts grow on female plants other than in that extreme environment.
Prof;
At what point is it considered "too crowded" in a grow?
I typically run a good number of plants in a small space & have had exceptional yields (quality & quantity).
In a fictional 2.5'x7'x7' (H) area running adequate ventilation, organic soil, SCROG & twin 600W lamps what would you consider "the right amount" of plants?
In the same space, can you guess at a total cured yield using known producing strains?
I'm not seeking flames - perhaps you can enlighten me & possibly vice/versa.
At what point is it considered "too crowded" in a grow?
I typically run a good number of plants in a small space & have had exceptional yields (quality & quantity).
In a fictional 2.5'x7'x7' (H) area running adequate ventilation, organic soil, SCROG & twin 600W lamps what would you consider "the right amount" of plants?
In the same space, can you guess at a total cured yield using known producing strains?
I'm not seeking flames - perhaps you can enlighten me & possibly vice/versa.
profgrow
Active Member
Hard to say what too crowded is, I do scrog because of plant limits in my state. If I didnt have plant limits, using the setup you described I would go with between 8 and 10, top each twice and have 40 or so decent sized colas, it would be a lot less work than vegging and training 4 plants to try and fill the space, plus turnover time would be faster. I can only guess at what that setup would yeild but using a standard 1gr/1w ratio thats 2400 grams per harvest, I have done better and worse over the years.
I love scrog, but the truth is I do it because I have too. Vt allows 2 flowering plants per patient and only one patient per caregiver, as a caregiver my job is to produce as much as I possibly can while staying inside the parameters of state law. My patient requires far more than 2 plants can typically offer every 2 months so I use scrog and keep backups vegging so I only have a couple days of downtime where I'm training my LST'd girls into the screen before switching to 12/12.
In an ideal world I would take that 2.5x7 you mentioned and either fill it with a flood table or build an elaborate aero system, take 40-50 clones, get them rooted, veg for 2 weeks then into the tent and straight into flower, I have seen sog methods like this yield very well with quick turnover.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Hey great white, even though you didn't ask me, I'm going to answer anyways. It really comes down to veg time, in that space (which you would really want to make 3' wide, your looking at about 6 plants with a veg time of 6 weeks or 4 plants with a veg time of about 8-9 weeks. Again, its really strain dependant. some strains love to branch and get bushy (white widow). Some plants really need to be hammered on to get to branch (Ak-47). Then there is the difference in stretch and screen filling capacity. There really is no "too tight", you can only do so much as when your training, the new shoots have to go somewhere.. and its hard to criss cross and what not to get every single entire square filled with a bud.
Honestly, in my experience it comes down to wattage. 1200 watts is 1200 watts. Even with a light mover, its really hard to get to the gram per watt benchmark. I did a very similar sized SCROG with 6 plants and I yielded a cunt hair more than 34 ounces. So I came in at about .80 grams per watt.
What I am really trying to figure out is the age of the plant and overall yield question. I raised my screen and vegged my current round for almost 2.2 months which is forever in DWC. My thought was that bigger, more mature plants would be able to produce more bigger buds in the same amount of space. I'm in week 6 right now and honestly, I can't tell yet if that is going to be the case or not.
Does that make sense?
It really comes down to veg time, in that space (which you would really want to make 3' wide, your looking at about 6 plants with a veg time of 6 weeks or 4 plants with a veg time of about 8-9 weeks. Again, its really strain dependant. some strains love to branch and get bushy (white widow). Some plants really need to be hammered on to get to branch (Ak-47). Then there is the difference in stretch and screen filling capacity. There really is no "too tight", you can only do so much as when your training, the new shoots have to go somewhere.. and its hard to criss cross and what not to get every single entire square filled with a bud. Honestly, in my experience it comes down to wattage. 1200 watts is 1200 watts. Even with a light mover, its really hard to get to the gram per watt benchmark. I did a very similar sized SCROG with 6 plants and I yielded a cunt hair more than 34 ounces. So I came in at about .80 grams per watt.
What I am really trying to figure out is the age of the plant and overall yield question. I raised my screen and vegged my current round for almost 2.2 months which is forever in DWC. My thought was that bigger, more mature plants would be able to produce more bigger buds in the same amount of space. I'm in week 6 right now and honestly, I can't tell yet if that is going to be the case or not.
Does that make sense?
thunderbay
Well-Known Member
Hope I didn't screw up.....Am I susposed to remove the screen ?
You can't remove the screen before harvest - you'll tear them to hell.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
lol. If you CAN remove the screen, then you did it wrong. Hell, its hard to harvest them out of the screen at times.
mrt1980
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I've only just looked into scrog (at first i thought it was a different type of hydro or something lol) and i already had the 7 on the go but thier only a week old.
would you recomond doing different strains? i got 5 white widow and 1 each of super lemon haze and pineapple chunk
profgrow
Active Member
Pimp, Start topping early then LST when she starts getting tall. (tall being between 1 and 2 ft)
mrT, I don't tend to run different strains because my grow is so small. The light pen from my 600w doesn't give me a lot of wiggle room for hight variances so I keep it simple. I have seen many people run multiple strains in the same scrog with great success, I have also seen people attempt to run multiple strains and fail horribly, its all about how much time you want to spend training. Get as much info you can on the strains before you decide to scrog them together, difference in harvest times and stretch can be the deal breaker. We know white widow can be branchy depending on phenotype, super lemon haze on the other hand can grow really tall really fast, a 6 inch difference in height from one plant to another can cause your lower plants to be sparse and fluffy while toasting the taller plants colas, that would be what I would take into consideration when growing multiple strains but I'm sure Legally has some more input as he is currently doing just that.
About raising/removing screens during growth;
Screens can be raised if needed in early veg, before the plant has really grown into it much. The screen starts acting as a support system once the branches have established in it, removing a screen that is holding up your plant's weight would be like kicking the crutches out from underneath a cripple, they need them to stand, buds don't like to grow upside down (tried it).
mrT, I don't tend to run different strains because my grow is so small. The light pen from my 600w doesn't give me a lot of wiggle room for hight variances so I keep it simple. I have seen many people run multiple strains in the same scrog with great success, I have also seen people attempt to run multiple strains and fail horribly, its all about how much time you want to spend training. Get as much info you can on the strains before you decide to scrog them together, difference in harvest times and stretch can be the deal breaker. We know white widow can be branchy depending on phenotype, super lemon haze on the other hand can grow really tall really fast, a 6 inch difference in height from one plant to another can cause your lower plants to be sparse and fluffy while toasting the taller plants colas, that would be what I would take into consideration when growing multiple strains but I'm sure Legally has some more input as he is currently doing just that.
About raising/removing screens during growth;
Screens can be raised if needed in early veg, before the plant has really grown into it much. The screen starts acting as a support system once the branches have established in it, removing a screen that is holding up your plant's weight would be like kicking the crutches out from underneath a cripple, they need them to stand, buds don't like to grow upside down (tried it).
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
your not admitting that you tried to grow a plant upside down are you?