LiGhts And SOil
- Thread starter DOT5262
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200 watts will be some so much radiant, unventable heat, that it is probably undoable. Maybe a 100watt + 2 blue led and 1 red, then add more led as the plants get bigger. Or if you really, really insist on CFLs (tried and true, can't hate if you do), maybe you could make the bulbs into external ballast systems (there is a tutorial somewhere)
why does it matter how many bulbs, other than initial cost? if they run cooler and produce better growth, then why not? Plus, let's say you get 2x100 watts in there, trust me, you will still want more but will not be able to add it.
The question you want to answer is: say with a 27 watt CFL vs a 3 watt blue (or red) led bulb, which one produces more blue (or red) wavelength . I'll find the answer later/tomorrow, you try and look it up in the meantime.
I just feel like you will be let down by the CFLs, but the question is will the LED be that much better to justify the upfront cost? And that we will find out together.
or mabe im just slow
DOT5262
New Member
ok i read it the best i could... most of that shit ment nothing to me.. but here's what i got out of it.... plants use mostly light from the red and blue sections and something called like ppr or something to do with photons... basicly the led lights take the most used lights and give the most of those 2 area's which gives the plant optimal light usage... watts and lumens = inacurate in terms of led so u have to look for the photon output or something..... only problem with led's other then the ones ive already listed... is that it doesnt provide a full spectrum there for it has to be accomponied by other "base" lights ? ... is that somewhat accurate.... im gonna go back and read what u wrote again and see if it makes alittle more sence... the only thing im not sure about is... if watts and lumens cant judge the light then how do u know how many lights u need to grow a plant......
Edit: i seem to get it alittle more.... but do u actully know if they work.. or are u just getting into led now ? and im still not sure about the 1:6:1 thing = ? .....
Edit: i seem to get it alittle more.... but do u actully know if they work.. or are u just getting into led now ? and im still not sure about the 1:6:1 thing = ? .....
Spectral Power Distribution Curves - If you look at the spectrum of a daylight cfl, you will see that only ~10% of the light is blue. 5% is red, and the rest is green/yellow. 10% of 27 watts = < 2.7 watts going into blue production (because CFL is not 100% efficient). Whereas with the LED, you are getting 3 watts of blue light straight up. (I think - I know it is *all* blue, but is it really 100% efficient? - that we need to answer)
That is the paradox... the answer is there is no simple way to go to websites that sell lights and see which one is the best - marketing is stuck in the lumens/watts mentality and this will not change until consumers become more educated...
To judge lights, first stop looking at it as a "light". Instead, see it as a device that converts raw electric energy into colored light radiation. So the way to judge is how much of the incoming watts convert into usable radiation of the color you need.
Second, get a basic idea of the "inverse square law". This describes how radiation diminishes with distance. Basically at one foot you get full power, at two feet you have 1/4 the power, 3 feet 1/9th and so on.
The only problem with LED so far as I can tell is that they do not have a lot of initial power - past 1-2 feet they will not work as a primary light. However, with only two feet of clearance, you're perfect for LED. Then you add one or two daylight CFLs to cover yellow/green. Why? because beta-carotene, phycoerythrin, phycocyanin are secondary plant pigments that use this spectrum instead of red/blue. However, they are much less abundant than chlorophyll, the primary facility of photosynthesis, and consumer of red/blue light.
The LEDs will solve your heat problem and provide optimal growth... Frankly I can't see more than 1x100watt cfl or 2x65 watt cfl unless you remove the ballasts, in which case you would still be pushing the heat limits. But think with that 100watt CFL, you are only producing something like 10watts of blue, 5 red - the secondary pigments use some portion of the leftover green/yellow energy, and the rest is wasted and just makes your plants *look* pretty green to your eyes. Plus the 100watt is not cold running by any means. Radiant heat cannot be ventilated - and it will be 90deg at least anywhere within 6" of the light, meaning dry, scorched tops.
bottom line, with the three blue, two red, 2 daylight cfl setup, you will have at least as much growing power as a 100watt cfl w/o the extra heat. Plus, you will have the opportunity to double the roof led count and add equal amounts to the sides without worrying that you will come back from work to a pile of ashes that was your house.
PURple for the highest quality - more good light education here, they also make a killer grow cfl
not at walmart, thats for sure - nlites USA | Contact nlites USA ask for US distributors. Keep in mind if you get a 200-250 watt purple nlite, you might as well look at the hortilux blue 250 watt
yes, the purple nlite could be your "base" light; all I am saying is a 200+ watt cfl will be just as hot or hotter than a 250 watt mh, so if you can't handle the heat, we come back full circle to led's 
If you can, then just keep it simple and get the mh
I am thinking you could go up to 100 watt cfl w/o doing crazy things to deal with heat, then fill out the rest with as much leds as you can afford. But if you are gonna go LED, then it makes more sense to go all out LED, w/ only 2, 27 watt daylights and the rest LED. The only reason you wouldn't go all LED, is if you have limited funds, in which case one of the 85 or 100 watt daylights from 1000bulbs.com would be a good choice to get you going for two weeks, then you add LEDs with your next check.
If you can, then just keep it simple and get the mhI am thinking you could go up to 100 watt cfl w/o doing crazy things to deal with heat, then fill out the rest with as much leds as you can afford. But if you are gonna go LED, then it makes more sense to go all out LED, w/ only 2, 27 watt daylights and the rest LED. The only reason you wouldn't go all LED, is if you have limited funds, in which case one of the 85 or 100 watt daylights from 1000bulbs.com would be a good choice to get you going for two weeks, then you add LEDs with your next check.
just for some real-world perspective, I "probably" could have vegged (albeit at a slowed pace) two 2 foot plants under my 100w daylight, but there is no way it would have powered a proper flowering, i.e. you are gonna need more red/blue than a 100watt fluorex daylight produces (or any other typical daylight cfl)
DOT5262
New Member
why are these led's so costly ? for 3 bulbs ? LED Growlights.com Sales
and ok well do u think this is a good idea.. get a 100 watt clf with 1 red and 1 blue bulb throu out the whole grow adding another 100 watt clf of the 2700k for flowering...
i do not want to do mh ive seen 200 watt cfls touching plants... and the plants growing along side ... if u tryed that with mh or any hid u would have ur house burt to the ground
note : ive seen plants grew with one 200 watt cfl ... the whole grow and it make good looking plants.. the only thing he did was switch a 200 watt 6500k with a 2700k one .. so i fuigre 100 watt for veg with leds assistance and 200 watt ( two bulbs) 6500k and 2700k with led assistance should be fine for slowering
and ok well do u think this is a good idea.. get a 100 watt clf with 1 red and 1 blue bulb throu out the whole grow adding another 100 watt clf of the 2700k for flowering...
i do not want to do mh ive seen 200 watt cfls touching plants... and the plants growing along side ... if u tryed that with mh or any hid u would have ur house burt to the ground
note : ive seen plants grew with one 200 watt cfl ... the whole grow and it make good looking plants.. the only thing he did was switch a 200 watt 6500k with a 2700k one .. so i fuigre 100 watt for veg with leds assistance and 200 watt ( two bulbs) 6500k and 2700k with led assistance should be fine for slowering
yeah I doubt that - where are the pics?
Here's the deal - cfl = ~60 lumens per watt, mh = ~80 lumens per watt, i.e. more electricity gets converted into light. All electricity not converted will be radiated as heat energy, so that means the CFL will be hotter than equivalent wattage HID by simple logic. Plus the CFL ballast is inside your box vs hid is external, so that is even more heat. Just something to consider. But anyway your plan sounds good assuming you can handle the heat from two 100watt bulbs. Just buy one first and see what temp it runs... Then you can add more led or cfl as needed/possible
Forget the 2700k, just get another daylight/full spectrum, last thing you want is abundant red = more stretching in your already tiny 2 feet. Same thing with your blue/red ratio on the LEDs - make sure you stay around 1.6blue:1red.
I have heard that ledgrowlights.com is a rip-off, forget where though. The panels/strips on ebay and the bulbs at hidhut are the ones I have considered personally for what it's worth.
DOT5262
New Member
blue light makes plants root alot better and gives them a good base for veging ? and red light ? idk i think its good for flowering...thats what the 2700 is suposed to be good for.. 6000k for flower 2700 for veg.... ive herd from some people i should just go strait to flowering lights cuz my small space i donnt need much veg ? idk if that would do like u said and streach the plants ? if the lights were close would it matter?
thanks for all ur help.. uve posted on this thread as much as me
thanks for all ur help.. uve posted on this thread as much as me