Lolipop vs not in SoG

genetics is the most important factor, some phenos will build large floral clusters/colas over many of the branches even lower branches can produce large colas but this is mostly genetics
chopping them and throwing a silly amount of light on them can make some difference to the density and size of the colas but not a great deal compared to the genetics

if your space is filled then remove some of the weaker growth/branches to make more room for the thicker growth
if you have free space you will more likely lose yield overall by removing branches but you will end up with an easier harvest with less little buds to manicure

peace

I will be doliatiating basically removing all the Fan leaves most of them 50+%.
May remove smaller bud sites.

Will update on my grow Journal Tomorrow.

skunkd0c said:

genetics is the most important factor, some phenos will build large floral clusters/colas over many of the branches even lower branches can produce large colas but this is mostly genetics
chopping them and throwing a silly amount of light on them can make some difference to the density and size of the colas but not a great deal compared to the genetics

if your space is filled then remove some of the weaker growth/branches to make more room for the thicker growth
if you have free space you will more likely lose yield overall by removing branches but you will end up with an easier harvest with less little buds to manicure

peace

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I will not be removing any branches. I will only remove small bud sites if needed but will be unikley due to my setup.
Will be usign defoliation by removing many fan leaves to increase bud.
Im running white widow.

I'm going to be running a 24 site Sog style rail system. This will be my first "real" grow..I've just pretty much F'ed around the last few years figuring out what i wanted to do. My plan, which i came up with after reading ....almost literally...every SoG thread i could find.. is to grow large single cola plants. Take clones at around 6"..rooting/vegging them till they are about 12", then flipping to flower. When i flip i'll trim the tops back to get the heights consistent, and I'll strip the lower 1/4 of the plants. After about 2 weeks, or once the flowering stretch has stopped, I'll go back and restrip the lower 1/4 again... don't want to deal with the fluff at the bottom.. I'll only remove fan leaves if i think there is an airflow issue, or if they are 50% or more dead. I've picked , what i hope will be, suitable strains for this..single cola, not alot of branching varieties..

I've been arguing with a friend for a couple weeks over defoliation techniques, manly in relation to the autos i have going. He believes in heavy defoliation, I believe leaves are energy production and food reserves and the plant will drop leaves as it doesn't need them. I'll strip the shit out of a photo period plant in VEG..it will recover in a week..once i hit flower.. I don't touch them..unless there is airflow issues or dead leaves..like i said. Even though he continually says my grow is one of the better he's seen he still thinks I'm doing it wrong...

I had a pretty dense canopy and kinda wish I woulda trimmed up the bottom 1/4 of my plants. Now I'm picking off little budsites that are clearly not gonna do much at all. I leave the leaves though since the plant just cannabalizes them anyways. I suppose lollipopping is kind of a lazy mans way of removing what they know(hopefully know) will be less productive and energy draining to the rest of the upper budsites.

SOG?

Get rid of any bud sites that aren't getting light. Push your energy up to the top of the plant. On a plant whose colas reach over 6 feet I usually don't even have a branch for the first 12-16 inches. Then, no budding sites until about halfway up the plant.

Why? Because a huge plant with a big/healthy root system makes numerous massive colas.

"Lollipopping" as this business calls it absolutely works. Removing up to 1/3 of the lower branches and shoots to focus on the main canopy is critical in getting higher yields. This has been being practiced for a long time not only on Cannabis but many other fruits such as apple trees, tomatoes and potatoes and soy beans.

Theres been many studies and lots of research done on this topic which is more commonly referred to as selective leaf pruning or defoliation in the commercial growing community.

Lollipopping for this type of plant as its known is beneficial when done at the correct time. It should be completed 2 weeks prior to flowering with a minimum of 10 days recovery period or it can negatively impact overall yields. This period of time is essential in recovery and the stress caused from cutting and pruning the plant. Using complex B Vitamins at this time is found to be beneficial in reducing potential for infections and stress related illness. Some argue over this subject I do it for good measure as its more of a peace of mind for me and I like to be safe rather than sorry. But its not something I say is imperative in its use or application.

Since Cannabis like many other plants grows via apical dominance the idea of lollipopping the plants underbrush causes the focus of growth to naturally bulken and focus primarily on the upper main flowering sites and canopy where most of the hormones, auxins and cabrohydrates will be driven anyways during photosynthesis. The maint goal is to convert all useable energy and resources to grow the largest main colas you can, which is the reason for removing the lower sites (one key misunderstanding is that YOU ONLY WANT TO BE removing the nodes or sucker branches is what you want NOT the leaves!!) The leaves are your main source for absorbing the light and providing the energy and carbohydrates needed for growth, so leave those bad boys on the plants! Selective removal of interior site blocking fan leaves is a different topic but can also be beneficial in reducing molds, and getting light penetration to the lower leaves so the entire plant can absorb all the energy possible during critical periods of flowering!!

Lollipopping is practiced by many cultivators and is always a subject of controversy in the growing community but if you ask many experienced growers you will find that it is common practice and this is for a reason because it works. You should also lollipop your main branches as well. What I mean by this is: the main branch or dominant growth "canopy shoots" should be stripped down anything under the 3rd-4th node from the tops. This will ensure you are only getting nothing but main colas. This will maximize our yields and remove chance of getting all the popcorn and fluff noone wants on their ladies. Try it out it changed my yields on average 10-20% just doing this simple trick.

The key is when you do it. As mentioned before I always do site and node removal 10 days minimum before the flip. And than follow up after the stretch is over usually day 21 and remove all this little crap shoots that grew back during the initial flowering stretch phase. And WALLA, you set yourself up nice for bountiful harvests!

Gd read, great info.

So am I wrong for getting a step ladder and standing over the top of my ladies to see where the sun does and does not hit? I always thought this was a gd way of finding what needed to go and what should stay for better light penetration.

Ladies are 5 ft and I have taken the lower 4-6 branches that do not reach halfway up the plant off.
Buddy of mine told me he takes his fan leaves off once the node has three fingers cause the node is selfsustaining at that point. Is he mistaken? He doesn't remove all jus the ones that get n the way of light.

I do think lollipop is a gd technique its kinda hard to judge what should stay sometimes.

Pictures maybe?

SwizzdaBeast said:

Gd read, great info.

So am I wrong for getting a step ladder and standing over the top of my ladies to see where the sun does and does not hit? I always thought this was a gd way of finding what needed to go and what should stay for better light penetration.

Ladies are 5 ft and I have taken the lower 4-6 branches that do not reach halfway up the plant off.
Buddy of mine told me he takes his fan leaves off once the node has three fingers cause the node is selfsustaining at that point. Is he mistaken? He doesn't remove all jus the ones that get n the way of light.

I do think lollipop is a gd technique its kinda hard to judge what should stay sometimes.

Pictures maybe?

Click to expand...

If I understand your question correctly, you do not want the light from your bulbs reaching the containers. You want your fan leaves to be absorbing all that light, removing them to get light onto your pots or bottoms of the stalk is counter productive. Hope this helps.

Removing some interior fan leaves that are blocking flower sites or simply to thin out for air flow in a tightly packed canopy is not a bad thing and I often pluck a handful off here and there. But you dont want to strip them down just to get light to the bottoms because if you lollipopped nothings really down there anyways. You want your plant and the canopy to absorb all of light the bulb is emmitting. The leaves are like solar panels on your roof you want all the light they can get to hit them so it can absorb it and convert it into the fuel for your plants to grow.

Also different strains respond differently to being plucked or stripped so its important to know your variety and how it reacts to things such as topping etc.. But for most part just remember the timing is crucial to when you should remove and pluck. Most important is to always do everything at once you dont want to continuously remove shit and never let the plant recover from initial shock of stripping and plucking off leaves or sucker branches.

Always 10 days before the flip minimum. And after the stretch phase to remove additional re growth or branches that havent began to flower because they will never be shit but fluff and airy bunk. Around the end of week 3 i like to go in and remove all lower little shoots and flower tips that grow back and remove all other flower shoots that havent began forming clusters or pistils yet because they will never mature by time rest of plant is ripe and ready for harvest. These are the things that draw energy and nutrients away from your main branches that you want to focus all of the development on to get the biggest and most abundant flowers possible.

Yes I understand, and no my question was is it ok to trim from top down removing fan leaves that blocked bud sites... accompanied by tying branches to get a maybe 3-4 inch spread in between them for better light penetration.

Now when do u say it would b safe to say when your definitely in bloom, all my nodes from top and three nodes down have pistils showing but it's apparent its not there yet. Would u say when the hairs begin to show from the site itself?

SwizzdaBeast said:

Yes I understand, and no my question was is it ok to trim from top down removing fan leaves that blocked bud sites... accompanied by tying branches to get a maybe 3-4 inch spread in between them for better light penetration.

Now when do u say it would b safe to say when your definitely in bloom, all my nodes from top and three nodes down have pistils showing but it's apparent its not there yet. Would u say when the hairs begin to show from the site itself?

Click to expand...

Soon as the stretch is done. Thats when you should go clean up everything for the last time. Usually like 3rd week anywhere from day 21-28 depending on variety. Longer variety like some sativas id way til 4th week when they are done stretching. Thats when you are gonna see what is gonna be good productive flowers and whats gonna be fluff you know?

Anything thats not already filling up and getting the nice little flower clusters can be trimmed back and taken off. Thats gonna let you focus on all the main colas.

And yes the top 3 sites are where all the action is gonna be. Someone who I believe developed that is Kyle Kushman I think he talks extensively about stripping off everything but the top 3 nodes but I could be wrong. Those main nodes is what is going to form the main colas and develop into main buds. The rest will most likely be the shit for the concentrates etc..

Ive done runs where I did side by sides stripping like that from the 3rd site down and lollipopping vs. Just stripping off some bottom stuff and it does make a very big difference in final product. Def helps develop those main buds nicely. Hope this helps

Yea @Cannabil is right , best way to prevent crappy little nugs from forming under the canopy of your plant is by cutting all those lower nodes off. Plants using this method will grow larger top buds cause they don't waste their energy and food on that lower crap.

Ok on last question, my plants have vegged from May first til now, my internodes are starting to become like the lower branches n the early stages, is this ok and will it affect yield?
Did I let them veg too long? Or should I jus retie them and try to get the new canopy level.
Of course I want as much as possible from my ladies but dnt wAnt to hurt my quality that much.
Thanks

SwizzdaBeast said:

Yes I understand, and no my question was is it ok to trim from top down removing fan leaves that blocked bud sites... accompanied by tying branches to get a maybe 3-4 inch spread in between them for better light penetration.

Now when do u say it would b safe to say when your definitely in bloom, all my nodes from top and three nodes down have pistils showing but it's apparent its not there yet. Would u say when the hairs begin to show from the site itself?

Click to expand...

Before you commit to doing all that.....How about you read these threads ok?
Just read them and get a new perspective on the idea's these guy's propose...

https://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/

and this newer one.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/

You should have both sides of the topic in mind before you decide....

Doc
"crazy shit"

I like the lower buds, I smoke them . Good theories in here I like it!

I also do not like the idea of lollipopping. I feel as though you should remove every branch that is clearly struggling. But for the lower branches, you should trim all growth on the lowest 2/3 of the branch. Do not touch the growth on the upper branches. She will form a cluster of sites near the top with rows of colas along the sides.

I've been SOG'n for awhile and I've tried Lollipopping and not Lollipopping, I literally saw no difference from the pairs.

Recently tried it with my White Widow cut all were almost exactly 16 g each. About where I wanna be for weight in a SOG though more would be better.

I'm considering lollipopping strictly for air flow as I have seen neither an increase nor decrease in weight that's notable.

Removing lower branching may also afford you a little more space to move the plants closer without crowding them.

Lollipopping serves many purposes. It helps air flow and reduces chance of molds fungus. It also makes it easier to water your containers (hand watering is the only way to grow imho).

And also aids in upper canopy development leading to larger colas and bigger flowers. Unless you are making wax, butter, shatter whatever with the bullshit larf and trim from the bottoms. You might as well just take it off to begin with. Its alot less work and its useless material unless you are making extracts with it. I dont do any of that stuff so for me removing it and focusing on my main shoots is what I want.

The only part of the plant I count for yield is dry weight from useable materials and not that bullshit on the bottoms. Noone wants it and dispensaries wont even look at your shit if that crap is in there. So for me its better to just take that shit off from the start and make sure I get the best flowers I can. Why make your plant work hard and take away nutrients and energy to try and grow shit on the bottoms that will never produce anything but crap anyways.

It doesnt matter what light source inside or out the bottoms will never be anything worth while. You may get a few nice small popcorn pieces that are good but Id rather not even bother with that shit at all. The return for the work and time trimming isnt worth while or cost effective just cut it all off early and forget about it.