Long Term Mother Care

The stressors to be studied like with a monitoring system. The canopy style and training/pruning is actually pretty much the same each time. Which is a traditional full size plant style of growing. Only topped once so the growth tips just do their thing and become colas, some satelites beefy due to that, and thats it.

I spent the first few rounds learning how to do that as I kept ending up with a larf bush. Mostly larf in shade with some exposed to light. Machine trim and jar all rosin in one jar 100gs so I missed a lot of data input. I did weigh flower and rosin to find I was usually 12% but subject to sift into more rosin or sift with no rosin in it.

Now I do what I do, and its like that machine trim just destroyed 8% of my rosin before I could extract it. But now thats added to my flower rosin yield and quality. Each plant gets its own jar and yield calculated etc to where Im at now that things stick out like a sore thumb if its lower than a certain amound. I got 12% the other run on a clone with all optimal settings.

So if I machine trimmed that clone it probably would of been like 8% or so which is scary. Then dove into what finding new phenos is all about and my brain went from veg mode to flowering mode Im like breeding now.

I am playing with dryback right now to save labor but thats a good point to bring up, that might effect things.

Some pics of my canopy style. 2.5x2.5 or 3x3

I only spent 2 runs doing it so well dialed in. The first 3 runs I was a newer grower still, the 3rd molded. Then did 2 runs since and on my 6th run now which doesnt include the molded run. The first few runs was always 12% flower rosin. Suddenly I hand trimmed out of spite and got 20%.

I did test 20% test sample off the original plant from seed but bought a bud trimmer and didnt see that again for a while. So that shows she was there from the begining, came back with hand trimming but started losing yield again. Was she always 20% even with inferior canopy training and lighting/space? Idk.

I aim to grow the same way always now because I did find I doubled my yield in smaller spaces doing so. Despite seeing less plant in the tents when you open them. You know, redirect of energy forcing buds etc. I cant stop the way I structure my plants ever since PM. The larf bush is good to avoid budrot but this fat cola growing requires proper enviorment IE circulation/less humidity.

So I cant help but make it the same every time even if new strain. So one run dialed in with 18% clone, a 19% and 16%. Next run 17%, 15%. Last run only one did 17% and had notable fat colas unlike the rest that did 12% and 13.4%. Started learning about this and here we are all clones had no choice but to come from same source, the 13.4% one. What will this harvest be is the million dollar question.

medidedicated said:

I think it occoured to me just thinkin about it. It was overnight at the time but thinking about it this morning.. Its about genetic baggage that can eventually turn permenant so youre reseting that internal log sheet. As they get old like my pic its not even two grow cycles old and is rough.

Being dtw coco idk if keeping them over a year is good. I have considered soil but Im no good with it its too big a learning curve and investing this far in. I barely got time to dig into stuff and try to only with whats relevent to me at the time. When I go hard into something things get achieved tho.

Kinda like how I delayed making a proper dry space but made it work with all my focus on it. Thats if I have time and figure it out tho soil Id need to invest a lot.

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Genetic drift is what I heard it called. I heard the term being used in seeds as well but I feel that’s more inbred depression, as if not grown in the same conditions there will be different outcomes.

Genetic drift is not a thing, it's that plants get used to being on 18 hours of light for many years or decades, and certain strains will go into transition/pre flower. Hence very slow stagnant growth that people labeled " genetic drift".

It's actually good to take a clone of a clone at least once a year for fresh moms. The so called genetic drift are just old plants that need to be reset.
They can be reset by putting them outside in the spring and this will restore vigor in old strains.

There's also away I developed to reset them indoors .

shorelineOG said:

Genetic drift is not a thing, it's that plants get used to being on 18 hours of light for many years or decades, and certain strains will go into transition/pre flower. Hence very slow stagnant growth that people labeled " genetic drift".

It's actually good to take a clone of a clone at least once a year for fresh moms. The so called genetic drift are just old plants that need to be reset.
They can be reset by putting them outside in the spring and this will restore vigor in old strains.

There's also away I developed to reset them indoors .

Click to expand...

How would you indoors? I dont want to bring pests in. I did say I read you should reselect the mother or just clone it to restart at least yearly or so. Have you brought back lost extracts yield like in my case that were cut in half? Does dtw coco effect things and need organics with outdoor spring to bring it back or is dtw coco still fine?

medidedicated said:

How would you indoors? I dont want to bring pests in. I did say I read you should reselect the mother or just clone it to restart at least yearly or so. Have you brought back lost extracts yield like in my case that were cut in half? Does dtw coco effect things and need organics with outdoor spring to bring it back or is dtw coco still fine?

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To reset indoors
Put them on 15 hours of light for a week. Increase the length by an hour a week until you work your way back to 18/6.

Im not sure about your yields but this is to restore vigor in old strains that don't grow very fast anymore.

I dont really have that issue other than that clones just age and break in after a few generations. This harvest will tell a new story as the last run was gas lantern routene to 9/15 all to harvest. So they prioritized finishing over filling space. I also flipped when I should of vegged a little longer.

My perpetual harvests are buffered so flowers can finish and veg can not be over grown waiting to flip. Usually one or two tents finish early so I tried vegging in there for week or two longer where also warmer.

It helped a lot and reversing the damage that GLR and 9/15 did, doing 18/6 and 12/12 to harvest.. I got the growth back I was looking for but yield to be determined.

With my practices I got vigor for the first few generations taking clones of clones. 7-8 oz everytime. Now I have to pay attention to veg make sure it gets long as it needs. It doesnt turn from small plant to tent packer anymore. Again idk if the light schedule messed with that.

I kind of like the breaking in because I was able to create the typical colas you see. Idk if thats just me but they behaved a little better later on. I needed to stop, back track reselect etc tho. Il defol the flower clones by hand but I now see I cant do that on the mothers.

I need a separate razor blade for each one until I get sheers but razors I like theyre disposable always clean. Just to top or remove leafs. So yea, a bit harder to get 7-8oz maybe it just was light schedule we will see.

The bad light schedule I had 2 clones that were about 5.5oz and 12% flower rosin yield. 1 did almost 7 oz and 17% then had a 3x3 clone vegged a week or two longer than usual do 8.35oz to 13% flower rosin. All clones came from that 3x3 clone. I might of reselected on time since I noticed it right away.

Theyre all growing with things I like about them. Harvest time is the real test tho.

AI said not long ago to me that generations are based on taking clones, not time. So in theory I could of stayed with the best performance I had for a good 5-10yrs or longer before being in this situation.

Its a unique situation. I just wanted to provide my own and take long breaks. But because Im after hash I got loured deeper and deeper. Its a combination of genes that need to be right for that performance to happen. If just one of those are mutated, damaged, surpressed, it falls apart and yields much less.

Maybe things like flower yield, smell, taste, potency, appeal are harder to lose. What I was trying say last post is instead of an easy 7-8oz its 6-7 on a good day but light schedule and veg maticulousness could make it easier. Those 5.5oz plants had large empty spaces due to flowering on day 9 and not branching.

So rare traits is what Im after. I lost pheno and learned as much as I could on replacing it. Im really into selfing if I become a breeder Il call our company “selfish genetics.” Lol.

7 generation mother I got now and several lines of it. I was making several lines of a generation taking clones of clones for almost 2 yrs. I had very rough stunted clones a pro wouldnt even plant and done that a good few times. Lots of other stress factors. No sleep cycle. Bug infestation for the first 4 generations.

I get excited but forget there are no guarentees with breeding we just manipulate it to our favor. Theres a reason there arent s1’s everywhere you look. You can inbreed and back cross tho babyy. Its all about objetive and time/commitment to make it happen. The part I forget is you can only refine it so much before it becomes a mess.

I just mean making quality selfed genetics with a strain that lets it happen. Not every keeper is tested tho because its about what the breeder is after. So they might be more into the f1 polyhybrid market than refinement but thats changing since solventless scene is exploding.

I know Im not the only one who fell in love with it before even doing it myself. Was so geeked. Still am I just need a new dumper and found my first one immediately. Its temping to pop a poly hybrid but its a 1000-2000 range pheno where as refined genetics are 100-200.

This is relevant as part of this thread idea is to learn about how to replace a lost mother with a selfed version. Half could be worse, half could be better of those selfed genes. I was told its a sound idea.

On top that I want to copy the outstanding pheno that took 100-200 seeds to find. Kinda nuaced, depends which mother I try to experiment on. If its inbred already it might not let me and just buy more seeds. If it lets me Il maximize seeds off it.

Idk Im losin it, I need to pick up a breeding book or keep crash coursing with AI. I know its do able, someone in particular made s2’s of a s1 and said its finable within 5 seeds. Im just trying to be realistic and as sound as possible in my projects.

I know I can always learn more, Im actually taking a break from all the dopamine. Going down the rabbit hole was finally fun for the first time. I get so geeked when I learn something key that I just dont eat and sleep right from long day of crash coursing. Id succeed more in life if everything else was this interesting.

Anyway I know if I just learn as I go along and test test test! Just like my clones I ran for 2 yrs now. If I test themmm through and through Il know what I have and maybe if I can even share it with community for free. Im weary of that tho because hvld and etc you dont want to screw anyone over.

Test roots. Idk how to go about that and the legity of that. I know they only care about the thc but clones are sketch. Im sure something within state might open up soon and maybe could just drive it there? I should establish that for my own sake anyway.

Lots of people take clones of clones or will say they never lost a mother. But eeeevery great once in a while Il read comments from people. I only read like one time revegging screws the genes up. I read one time not to take clones of clones they lost their mother that way.

I just have a project in line with mother handling that shows so much insight to the plants genetics. Im betting you this harvest will be dissapointing. 7 gen is like 10 yrs worth of performance in less than 2 yrs. Its real growmies.

I think its bad because I needed to reselect on the 3rd generation. I didnt start noticing somethings wrong until 5 gen but wasnt as bad. Then 6 gen I knew somethings wrong for sure but I was unedjucated compared to now on what to do; what I should of done from beginning.

Now on gen 7. Last round I had a clone stay behind to veg more to fill a 3x3 and thought Id take clones from that. A blind reselection. I slowly purged the good genetics and perpetuated the bad till its possibly all I had left.

Its like copying a blurry photo, it dpesnt get more clear. Thats my fav saying. So each generation you have a line of clones that come from each clone. I had it so mixed up I dont even had time to word how I did it. Also would be going off memory which is a blur.

Id just keep a mother and replace it yearly. You can go pretty far this way, my issue was its like having 5 mothers that some were kept some were purged (probably the good ones.) Then all of them were stunted and roots infested with gnats and aphids. Etc.

So some were more damaged than others but I kept the bad and purged the good. By taking clones off the best plant that had it as Im picky with my cuttings. They have to be long enough and just right etc. Not every plant had a good cutting to take just yet. Thats how these practices led to this.

They become their own plant when they root as clones. You never know when this will happen really. The best thing to do is take great care to prolong that and reselect ASAP when you notice a drop in performance. If you could sneak a copy of each clone you send to flower, keep the best aka reselect each run..

You might recover it or you might just be left with a slightly less performing mother like I could of. If I reselected in gen 4 is really when it started. I just got 20% and close enough on almost the rest of them so was fine with it. One did 16% and got concerned but shrugged it off u edjucated.

I would of potentially got that 20% mothered again on gen 4. Then hmmmm. What now? Its got baggage.. It has stress memory.. Like I said earlier, prolonging the inevitable. That only happened due to the described poor practices.. Id just reselect yearly and mother the best.

I guess about 10 yrs is about how long they last Ive heard many times. If Im in this situation and only read it happen to one other person.. But I heard countless times they start to lose it around 10 yrs.. Thats the heart of this thread baby where all the pros at?

Let me hear your thoughts. This isnt a “how I keep my moms” thread, this is some of the deeper threads Ive ever made. Please only add insight if its in line with our conversation.

Like frylock says on aqua teen all the time, you clone something over and over again.. The material wears down and no telling what youll get. Might get a cloned tv that fucks with you and shoots blood out the screen Lol.

shorelineOG said:

To reset indoors
Put them on 15 hours of light for a week. Increase the length by an hour a week until you work your way back to 18/6.

Im not sure about your yields but this is to restore vigor in old strains that don't grow very fast anymore.

Click to expand...

Could you a

shorelineOG said:

Genetic drift is not a thing, it's that plants get used to being on 18 hours of light for many years or decades, and certain strains will go into transition/pre flower. Hence very slow stagnant growth that people labeled " genetic drift".

It's actually good to take a clone of a clone at least once a year for fresh moms. The so called genetic drift are just old plants that need to be reset.
They can be reset by putting them outside in the spring and this will restore vigor in old strains.

There's also away I developed to reset them indoors .

Click to expand...

could you also outcross this strain to something not related, then back cross to the recurrent parent? Yes this may only provide 75% genetics to the cultivar of interest, but it would give you a plan B in seed form no?

Ahaaa… So I was realizing Im peeking into the genetics as we speak. Since all clones are same source and will continue to be.. I can see how the line is doing by ones mutating growing larfy, extra leafy etc. Especially at harvest.. Will see my mother in a expanded view. Kinda like if I selfed a plant and grew offspring to peek into those genes.

Pics.

So with a line of clones I can see the condition of my mothers genes. This where more plants are better but I got 12 plant count to follow. Being indoors to only really got 6 spots in flower room. Running them full size has their perks tho it tells me much more.

So a fresh pheno you should see less variation in performance but as they age. Like generation 7 close to the end of typical life span of 10 generations.. Im seeing like 5 diff expressions already which I used to not see much difference. When I did it was after some age and degration. Mix matching clones.

They started varying even in same tent like now. I have one side by side and one opposite pair in tents meant for two plants. One very dwarfy mutated son of a gun that hopefully wont be the hash winner.

All 6 clones. The 3x3 vegged 12 wks the rest 10. So the 3x3 naturally will express a lil different. One of them showed varigation on a few leafs if that means anything.

Anyway so yea. I think I reached a consensus yesterday that its just what it is. Have you had it last longer than 10 generations? What trait did you value and did any other ones change whatsoever?

Maybe this why some strains change over time and lose a beloved trait like road kill skunk to todays fruity with minimal skunk.

I really would love to hear from extract makers specificly BHO, Bubble hash/hash rosin and flower rosin preferably since thats what I do.

The 100 year mother/seed project. Bring back the mother in seed form after 10 years or so or even less as unexpected things happen. Having a few thousand seeds of it tho vaulted away is the goal.

Some day hopefully soon there will be other strains and availability to get more. Im making a seed bank for myself of fire selfed strains. Because why stop there when I guess I just so happen to be in the present moment. Where theres still room to grow. Almost ahead of the curve unless Im just trippin again.

Selfish genetics baby thats my seed bank.

Okee. Did some more learnin. Sooo I want to create a IBL because they just dont exist. Only one I found was a shadey breeder no ones ever ran their gear before. Hell Id much rather do myself thank you very much.

Find that mom and then self it then fund the mom within that.. Cross it to the original mom I found and repeat 2 or more times and boom. I got my mom in every 5 seeds ish aka a true IBL.

All possible with 6 perpetual plants close to 5 harvests per year. Just be about your business and not clout. Do it right. For yourself.