Long Term Mother Care

Ive grown strains said double hash output than normal being a real hash maker. That doesnt tell me anything, what yields am I hunting through hundreds of plants for potentially? I popped a seed and only got 8% flower rosin. Oh ok well Il just spend hundreds and spend time growing lile 30 plants to finally find a review but the highest that person got was 18% flower rosin?

So Im hunting for something I already have better of? Oh so it turns out flower yield dictates if those high extract yields are even worth it? Well is only yieldwd half the flower to my mother pheno. So yea thats my experience with the market.

Also, tissue culture and etc costs thousands. They have home self serve kits I thought I saw but its real finicky. You must be sterile beyond comprehension or youll contaminate your sample. Just not for me, how about someone makes a IBC for specific hash purposes.

When we are talking thousands of expressions and can only grow 6 plants a year.. You really want to go thru that over and over again? You couldnt just stress test, reverse and grow the seeds from that for the better? An IBC you should find your replacements in just one run.

You got to think, a high bubble hash dumper is like 25% from dried material. You press that and get 40-60% rosin on average back. Hell even if it was 75%.. So I have to hunt for something that yields less than what I want, the rosin available from that which suddenly can become locked out and unavailable when pressung flower of it instead, you wont get 25% yield back..

Its a different proceedure even pressing the bubble, is different to what happens when you press the flower instead. It could easily be 15% flower rosin even tho the best pheno breeder picked did what should be 25%. It just doesnt work like that. Tricomes and dabbable hash are two different things.

You could have 20gs of dry sift but only 45% of that rosin and its subject to loss until then. It creates a chemicle reaction and turns into something different entirely.

This is why when I lost half my yield to machine trimming, I didnt see ounces of dabs scattered in the machine trimmer. Hell I didnt even see the same amount of dry sift each time, sometimes I got nothing back with barely any extractable rosin.

Shit I really might be in my own lane on this. So yea, that chemicle reaction and physics at play, dictate end results. The trichs and the hash whithin them, have to be perfect for flower rosin. If that wasnt selected or tested, you have no idea what your getting into. Hence the stress. I think Ive figured it out tho.

Just look at all the fustrated people complaining about the same thing as me including those whove actually grown lots of plants and never found the one. Hell I be seeing these strains some Im after, people said they found that keeper out of a room full of plants. Kinda like how I found the best slurricane 7 pheno ever, why is it so hard to find? It wasnt bred and stabilized.

There are people here growing large rooms full of plants and just never find something stand out. This is why. Its a gamble. When I first realized it didnt have to be thats where this project came in.

If anyone chimes in you got to read what Im saying. Sometimes I type long texts post them and dont even proof read or re read it. I get it but this is something new and Im really on it. You could easily miss something Ive already said. You got to be doing this for years to be able to answer.

Hell even people that been doing this longer than me dont got much insight for me. It pushed me to find possible answers Im starting to really believe. Imagine looking for a strain/pheno for 2.5 yrs, Ive heard of them already trust me. There are like one or two options but theyre sketchy, still dont solve my problem.

Would you spend a few hundred just to find out? After a couple grand already.. I would but my bigger concern is if I even get the seeds. Im on the hunt for the best and turn it to a IBC. Why cant anyone show me one so I dont have to breed it myself?

Cannarado looks good Ive been looking at them a while ago but its to vague to base a pheno hunt on. I have to pheno hunt anyway. Only to just mostly get yield thats about as good as growing anything else? Because it makes up for it when your pheno just wants to yield less than half suddenly. I can chop branches of each right now and prove its gonna be 13% or less.

I got a mom from 2 gens back Il run a clone from and watch it be a little more like 15-17%. Thatd prove something. Anyway rado gear they all say they wash and bubble presses well. Theres no number talk like usual only umami is starting to tell you what to expect. Which idk how you possibly could.

So I just checked umamis gear, promising words like solventless extraction and high rosin yield. This doesnt tell me anything tho if you donflower rosin. There are no numbers. You see 450-600 grams per square meter flower, not hash. It wont tell you a percent which is the most direct info you can get to base a hunt on.

I just searched and even asked AI to search for me, umami doesnt have anything of what we speak even for the craft they supposedly grow for. Let alone something even newer like hash rosin and flower rosin. It said they might have IBLs they keep to their self tho idk what it means by that, hopefully to incorporate unrelated traits to hash…

Someone can get fluke results it happens. I was corrected that fluke isnt a good word but uts my way of understanding it. You cant base a pheno hunt just on that. So you got 27% of that strain? Thats good to know but theres more. Did it take high light saturatiom points to produce or special uv’s reds etc. Was it more than once?

Fluke meaning that could of been a 1/1000 chance. People win lotterys more than once it happens. Just be skeptical, a pack of this and that adds up to a thousand bucks. A pheno hunt costs anout a good thousand bucks. Youre gonna spend that you better be very sure. You also ought to be sure before you suggest others to, I would hate to be that guy that made you waste a grand.

I got banana og bx3 100 seeds Ive seen people yield over 30% from it. Ive seen people recommend it for high yield. Flower rosin specifically. It will need an outcross likely as I learn later Im in a refined starting point. The best IBCs are made from f1 polyhybrids. Im creatimg a IBC withing a half way made IBC its not a good idea but possible.

Il just leave it at that, Sometimes I realize later I dont have to spell everything out all the time. The reader can put things together too. How easy can someone convince you to spend a grand on something useless?

I seem someone yield 28% sundae driver rado gear but of course.. You cant find those seeds let alone enough to pheno hunt. The best strains I seek are like this. Its gambling idk what else it feels like.

So just checking ethos gear they got similar rbx3 like my banana og so theyre trying but not hard enough or its just much tougher in practice.. Maybe just too many goals. Same issue but I at least had something to bite on. Im getting deeper into my belief to where if I see something Im kinda damned if Im wrong but yup, same issue.

They use words not numbers. Im gonna pay you amazing for your job today. Im gonna pay you a almost double than usual. Im gonna pay you a high amount of dollers. How much am I going to oay you for your hard work? We all kinda have different answers now.. From experience they must mean 20-25% and thats if it fits my extract method.

It doesnt tell me if the highest hasher will also be the smallest flower yielding which renders high yields useless. It becomes more like a 15% with decent flower yield of 5-6oz. Its not fine tuned for flower rosin. Its a reduced gene pool but thats the good thing, I could use two rbx3’s to help create a IBL.

Its good like hey, theres more to choose from. You got to know what youre looking for tho. What did their idea of winner pheno mean to you if you where right there with them. Like hey let me test your plants nugs 5g press. What did they yield flower wise full size like 2.5x2.5 or 3x3? Its just a unfocused project. Thats like purposely doing wrong what I said I have to do right.

If I want 30%? Dont cross it with something that doesnt consistantly hit 30%. If you compromise for 27% youre not copying that replica that made it work so well. Also it might have a trait that it needs consistent conditions or more light than usual to produce hash. Which your end grower could expirience.

There needs to be reviews. Then theres the uncertainty of having the pheno in your bag of seed which you probably dont. So that moves you to buy more. If you wait a few years to run out it probably will sell out.

They got IBLs but all autos. Other breeders have IBL’s. I know its possible, tellin ya its just a rare opportunity to be on something. If someone does it before me great! Im just trying to see an end to my grow. With maximum security in genetics. I just think they either just dont know or its on purpose.

It makes sense, a hash maker/breeder. I just dont see them. They work with the breeder Im sure but its not being fine tuned for every extract method or else youd see people posting keeper numbers all the time. And no one complaining.

Well thats a fool moment. So Im not wrong about all this but theres a real hole I found in project. I just didnt think to search how long seeds really last for. Its like 5 yrs then 50% germ rates drop. Then its single digits after 15. Also loss of vigor and could just be shit plants.

Damn AI. This is what I mean when I say it can be a little misleading or idk a better word at the moment. Point is, someone has to keep paying it forward. Its clear theres a hash community, not all of it is being served, and some one has to be that middle man but it wont hold itself up.

New IBL hash breeders would have to come to scene. I would of made it easy for those who struggle but someones got to keep putting the love in. When I leave the scene. It does say to freeze seeds for 20 years but its just being AI again. Its onvious what the problem is. Some yall must think Im a real clown.

Just now realizing something so silly. Its a dilema tho I mean, it could take 300 phenos 3 years small grow to find a mother. You could get bugs and have to smoke the place etc. Hvld. Im hydro so if I didnt check it for two days for whatever reason and pump went out, it could die. I could personally have many reasons I cant care for them and have to start over.

Its a shitty pressure but I guess making your own strain isnt all that much better. I just be seeing people germ beans from 30 yrs ago so I thought 15 yrs easy. Its risky business tho all that hard work. It keeps saying to store them 20 yrs and just replenish mothers or even longer but its not seeing its own contridiction.

Its suddenly telling me sib mating to make more seeds isnt a good idea. Im seeing between the lines that getting to IBL status is hard work if you even make it, only to be a snapshot in time like I say.. You dont want to go any further other than to use these traits into other projects.

Well shit this sucks. This would explain why no one has done it. Youd be doing a lot of people a huge favor tho. I would be working 3 times harder to fullfill an obsession to avoid something making it redundant. It makes losing a mom look like not really a big deal. All because I didnt think hard enough about the seeds not lasting long.

So yea its like someone would be stepping it up for all of us which could very well benefit from that. Youd be pheno hunting 3 times to create it, when really, losing a mom and starting again and keeping that for ten years.. Is looking better. It may not last that long tho as you see I lost mine in two years.

Unless thats another hole in the project, that yields just can get cut in half for other reasons. Id blame gas lantern routene because it really did mess up my plants. They all growing way better now back to normal lighting. Maybe it forced it to prioritize finishing over bud and hash production idk but still likely I lost that pheno.

I knew I was getting ahead of myself I just didnt see where the issue is. I wasnt too far off tho. The “snap shot in time” is just something to keep reminding myself. Whos gonna provide it?..

Its not too bad just humbling. Something had to set me back I was just going waaay to far into this with no potential problem whatsoever. Its all good it just wont last that long, but it could.

When I say 300 phenos 3 years I mean to find that mom, Bx and find mom again in 3 years. Then the next generation will be a lot faster and so on. Selfing I last gathered could be able 350phenos to find the keeper again. It depends on starting point, if I do it from a bx3 its going to be much faster.

Also more risky. Woops I mean 25 phenos a year so wow, it would take 4 years to go thru 100 beans of a bx3 and find my keeper. For polyhybrid it could basically never happen. Could take 40 years to find a pheno just to start the process but more likely sooner. Say about 4 yrs and the bx3 like 1 yr. Then the next step gets easy.

Wow so Im already over it. It sucks but this feels more realistic now. Luck will be the main factor and if I just work my setup right, I could get lucky and make a IBL in 10 years. Realisticly. Possibly even less like 7 or 8. It really does feel like I have no choice. Im a customer with no plug so I have to do all this to decide how I want to persue my need for being dabs only.

Its worth it tho, I love hash. I love my flower rosin.

i have not personally ever seen plants genetically drift, ive also never seen stuff by clone not produce after x amount of runs like clones of clones. i believe it could be possible after a half decade maby a decade i just haven't personally seen it. right now im keeping a cut of sugar cane i came across that ticks every box for me as far as yield, weight, frost, terps, return on hash i found is excellent for example with just left over popcorn i was getting a 10 percent return. if using quality flower i think that return would be much higher. back to clones. my take is this. things should be fine as long as you keep the light gentle and keep pests away and properly feed the plants should be no issues. i dont keep long term mother plants i only do clones of clones each cycle.

xox said:

i have not personally ever seen plants genetically drift, ive also never seen stuff by clone not produce after x amount of runs like clones of clones. i believe it could be possible after a half decade maby a decade i just haven't personally seen it. right now im keeping a cut of sugar cane i came across that ticks every box for me as far as yield, weight, frost, terps, return on hash i found is excellent for example with just left over popcorn i was getting a 10 percent return. if using quality flower i think that return would be much higher. back to clones. my take is this. things should be fine as long as you keep the light gentle and keep pests away and properly feed the plants should be no issues. i dont keep long term mother plants i only do clones of clones each cycle.

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It should always be a certain amount tho right, why mother it if it can suddenly only produce half the amount ir even little less and stay doing so? What if my mother I recovered from 2 generations earlier produce a chunk more like they did when I ran them? Il run it after next run. Its my only data to go off of as of now. I harvest them in 2 wks ish.

I wonder if its valid connection that I yielded the most flower rosin I ever have with my own grow aka genetics. Dispensary bud is top quality tho I noticed before making my own ever since, quality kinda dropping. I was told yesterday my stuff is better than what they have but they dont know how to hunt down the best bags.

What Im saying is if its grower error then why are these master growers for dispensaries not yielding more than 15% flower rosin? Did ones that were grown outdoor too.

I guess there are ways you could delay the inevitable. Keep the last clones that made the IBL for 10 years but likely have to reselect the original mom or outcross. 5 more years maybe 10 try sib mating as it keeps suggesting its possible to make seeds that way its just risky and very limited. That can buy another 5-10 yrs if it can be done at least once.

So 15 yrs about the lifespan of a strain for this case. Just thinking roughly my mind is tired I been focusing harder on this than anything else. Over eating breakfast and lunch type thing. Sleep late. Anyway, so one ibl tends to turn into another. So Im always on the lookout for the next IBL potential I guess.

I guess its not as bad as I thought but was a bummer to realize its not as easy as I thought. To keep something alive for a while let alone a life time being impossible.

Also xox, your plants are flawless. Your grow is spot on like jjgrow420 and others. What if its a pheno thing like light saturation points, that they have different lifespans and tolerance to adverse conditions. What if I really did lose mine since I was learning to grow and stunted them many times and the gnats/aphids were eating them to death.

Roots always rotted as soon as I flipped to flower. With warmer temps they replicated faster and killed my plants, was a shitty time for me then. Il stay active if I can, I have been for 3 yrs on RIU. Il be happy to periodically update thread with new data which changes everything. Im due for more which is to confirm my pheno aint worth growing for hash anymore.

Instead of reading my texts u can just check my journal out, its my username. Im glad I tend to keep to the same threads as they turn into books. My journal shows my whole progress since I started taking growing seriously.

Before I forget must remind myself it could take years with my plant count just to confirm I even have a IBL. A good 50-100 phenos to start. Thats where community would come in play. So that alone can set me back 2 years at a time or 4. Just for a test which if I find anything off, I got to repeat.

Due to thumbnails shuffling I have to post this like this. But heres a interesting answer. So we are all right, including me potentially. Crazy my first pheno is showing me what to breed for. This could destroy a project. Its also finally asmitting to me lots of IBLs dont make it. This would be the core reason they dont invest in them even tho it could be a game changer for some.

Its more random, you just constantly stabilize after a dead end lots of times having no choice but to outcross and repeat the project. Could be due to inbreed depression winning or my potentially very insightful thread here of what happens if you lose the pheno you were breeding with.

More.

Lastly,

Ok this is where it gets too hard. Got to try to understand this.