Looking Into LED - No Clue Where To Start

Rocket Soul said:

Sorry, i thought i was clear. I talk about its spectrum, blue spike as in the combined blue peak of the two white diodes. Its photon pump is at 437nm iirc , in any case the point is both hlg and mammoth does this, and its a definite value adding feature imo it covers better both cholorophyll A and B;
View attachment 5331772
Chloro A is scarcely covered using a standard HE spectrum while B is very well covered. It also covers better the stomatal aperture action spectrum.
But i kinda agree on photons are photons generally; we tried many, many different whites and whites + red. And most grows they pretty much did the same. Sometimes whites and reds win and yield sometimes whites, seems to be somewhat strain dependant.
Adding another lower blue pump, in our case 400nm, in generous amounts has changed the dial on the grow.

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Sorry but the narrative you're trying to tell is irrelevant. The graphs you post are the absorption spectra of isolated pigments in an organic solvent. But we grow plants. In the leaf the absorption is different and dynamic. Depending on the light environment it can he adjusted to maximize light capture.
Relevant are photosynthesis action spectra such as the McCree Curve.

The EVO chips with 430 nm pumps are more efficient. that's why they were developed.

Lou66 said:

Sorry but the narrative you're trying to tell is irrelevant. The graphs you post are the absorption spectra of isolated pigments in an organic solvent. But we grow plants. In the leaf the absorption is different and dynamic. Depending on the light environment it can he adjusted to maximize light capture.
Relevant are photosynthesis action spectra such as the McCree Curve.

The EVO chips with 430 nm pumps are more efficient. that's why they were developed.

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Chloro versus macree: you make a very valid refutal of an argument that im not even making. You talk about total photosynthetic efficiency, i talk about chloro absortion peaks, without making any argument re photosynthesis efficiency. My argument is that covering chloropeaks better will improve plant health and growth pattern. Also that a lower photonpump around 430-440 will be better at making the plant transpire as it hits the stomatal aperture action spectrum better than a 450nm pump.

I think you get sucked into the whole blurple vrs full spectrum argument: for years led manufacturers used these chloropeaks in order to justify blurple lights, no green. While macree refutes this claim as green is in fact used in photosynthesis, the argument doesnt go the other way; theres nothing in the macree data that indicates that chloropeaks are completely unimportant. Just that on total photosynthesis they are not the whole story. Read my argument again: im not making claims on photosynthetic efficiency, im making claims of increased plant health by using another lower photon pump which hits another chloropeak. Its funny you make the argument re we are growing plants; this is what i base it on; adding this lower photon pump did this in our garden. I dont have a way to measure total photosynthetic yield or efficiency so im not making an any arguments about that.

As for evo h being more efficient than the standard sammies; samsung doesnt tell you the whole story here as we are not comparing apples to apples; the 5000k evo h and a standard 5000k samsung arent really comparable in that they have different amount of phosphor on each diode, evo using less. Less phosphor, higher efficiency. But its like comparing 3000k to 5000k; of course 5000k comes up as more efficient, it uses less phosphor. Look and compare the spectrums and youll figure it out. Every blue peak on evo h leds is bigger than on its corresponding cct in standard sammies.

Also: if it was all about the efficiency of the diode why do we see both Mammoth and HLG using both type of diodes in the same light? At least HLG do extensive tests, one would assume if they had led to your conclusions they would have only used evo h, but that is not the case.

As for the nm of the evo h photon: im just repeating the numbers that ive seen commented here on riu, ive not actually seen a samsung reference to how low it is. Their spectrum graphs are so small in the datasheet Do you have any samsung source of 430nm?

i believe the evo is a 437nm pump, im sure i have read 437nm somewhere in samsungs literature but its also a perfect match for this - hybrid InGaN/AlGaN-CuI blue led, (not from samsung).

samsungs mention of 437nm...
https://led.samsung.com/about-us/news-events/news/news-detail-65/

grotbags said:

i believe the evo is a 437nm pump, im sure i have read 437nm somewhere in samsungs literature but its also a perfect match for this - hybrid InGaN/AlGaN-CuI blue led, (not from samsung).
View attachment 5331860

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Yes, you are my source for that number. The graph is nice, it illustrates how hard its to get efficiency out of a 430nm diode. I know TEKNIK was trying to get decent diodes in this range but couldnt find it anywhere.

I hate hlg boards there too intense ,got 3 350r and can only get to 60% at 4ft before mg appears and bleaching starts dry leaf etc, where as my bxeb strips spread out I can drop low and max power the buds are much happier bigger greener no bleaching and yield is reflected the same I know it’s more power but I can’t reach more on hlg, what they do produce for the half power is golden and good but if I jump up above 50 it freaks out everything , did a side by side hlg bxeb hlg and the middle was keeper the edges was almost flavorless under hlg compared to the bxeb ,

I wanna make another board my currents are 3500 I feel I need more red so adding a 2700 would be a bonus , but I will sell my hlg birds if I can make or buy a better pan el or 2 I just can’t keep track on what led is best or find what diy is best atm , the evo look mint but can’t for the life of me find strips that aren’t Chinese

2cent said:

I hate hlg boards there too intense ,got 3 350r and can only get to 60% at 4ft before mg appears and bleaching starts dry leaf etc, where as my bxeb strips spread out I can drop low and max power the buds are much happier bigger greener no bleaching and yield is reflected the same I know it’s more power but I can’t reach more on hlg, what they do produce for the half power is golden and good but if I jump up above 50 it freaks out everything , did a side by side hlg bxeb hlg and the middle was keeper the edges was almost flavorless under hlg compared to the bxeb ,

I wanna make another board my currents are 3500 I feel I need more red so adding a 2700 would be a bonus , but I will sell my hlg birds if I can make or buy a better pan el or 2 I just can’t keep track on what led is best or find what diy is best atm , the evo look mint but can’t for the life of me find strips that aren’t Chinese

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Led-tech.de got the evo h and i think they put them on strips but not very economical, esp if you have to do shipping to US/canada.

I flowered for years under 3700k white A51s with discreet Cree diodes. No regrets.

i have changed my mind i think mammoth are using monos for the greens, been having a play and can more or less recreate mammoths spectrum. it uses samsung mint evo + samsung lm301H evo 3000k + samsung lmb301B 5000k + osram 660nm + osram 730nm + 525nm(green).

but it only comes out at an efficiency of 2.8 umol/j. you might be able to lift efficency slightly by swapping the 3000k + 5000k samsungs around ie using lm301B for the 3000k and lm301H evo for the 5000k but i cant check it with the data at hand. still i dont think its gona get close to mammoths claim of 3.05 umol/j? hmmmm.........

noxiously said:

I don't really have a budget, but I do tend to be cheap. If I can justify spending more I will. Starting off, I'm looking to stay under $1000 - needs justified to go that high, but since I'm new to LED I'm probably going to stick around the $600 range. If I can get one LED that produces similar the the 1000w hps or can replace the two hps lights and stay under $600 I'll go that route at first.

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Have you looked into Phlizon?

I have 2 of their PH-B10-D 800w led light bars in a 10x5 tent and they work great, this would also keep you under your budget

Rocket Soul said:

Led-tech.de got the evo h and i think they put them on strips but not very economical, esp if you have to do shipping to US/canada.

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Defo it’s bits atm I’d sware manufacture snap em all up to force market to buy made pannels

what board manufacturers are top atm and got the evo , I’m over uk though not americas mars andviper seem to have them but I never know if or how genuine they are ,k owing my luck I’d get them and burn the plants lol wasted somuch doing that the mrs murders me every time I try buy new lol so I gota be sure may even sell me drivers too to add up points , otherwise I’m making a standard 2700 bxeb lol but I hope to be an upgraded tech when I build 2years on

noxiously said:

The local shop has these, new, for $1,000. They also have a photobio mx 680w for about $680; has anyone heard of this brand before? Since I've never used LED I don't know about many brands, other than the big brands like Spiderfarmer, HLG, and Mars Hydro. I've heard of LED's catching fire, probably an off brand chinese produced LED, so it makes me nervous to go that route to save money.

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Nothing wrong with the photobio. Not a Chinese knockoff, sort of a combination board/bar light.