jstone1633
Well-Known Member
Im heading into week 8 on a 10 week strain and pretty much everything just went yellow. Is there anything I could hit them with that would do any good?
Thanks
Thanks
Lots of yellow
- Thread starter jstone1633
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st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Kinda late in the game but I would maybe top dress some earth worm castings if you're worried about it. I'm not sure that I would mess around with any specific N sources at this stage though.
jstone1633
Well-Known Member
I dressed with worm castings about a week ago and watered with some kelp probly 4 days ago. Guess Ill probly have to wait it out.
You're plant may just be finishing early. Breeders recommendations are just that, recommendations. How do the pistils and trichomes look? Is this plant new to you?
jstone1633
Well-Known Member
Ive grown it a few times. A clone of a clone of a clone. 10 weeks for sure
Interesting. Do you use a "water only" soil, or do you use bottled organics? What is different about what you've done this grow compared to your last few?
jstone1633
Well-Known Member
i tried to go with jus a soiless/ewc mix and roots organics bottle nutes. Not enough of anything in the medium or nutes. Ive tried like 3-4 tablespoons per gallon of the roots nutes and its still not enough.
I think Ali's on to something. Especially when using a mostly soil-less mix. Overall, you have very little humic material in your mix. Humic material is the main thing that regulates wide pH fluctuations. And you've been giving it heavy (?) doses of "organic" bottled nutes? I'm not going to be able to help diagnose or fix this problem. I grow in my own hand crafted soils. I have no experience with soil-less/bottled nute grows. Good luck. Hope you get it figured out.
LadyZandra
Active Member
Many people hit their plants with "veg nutes" around week 4-5 since the plants really use up the stored Nitrogen from the soil by then...
Are you using the whole line of roots- including the catalyst? the nutes are meant to be used together according to a feeding schedule--- go to their website to see it... that MAY be your issue if using only one part of a multi-part nute regimen!
Make sure it is NOT a P-K issue!!!! as long as whatever you are using/mixed in has sufficient P-k, go w/ the vegging nutes--- but photo's would help us help you better!
Are you using the whole line of roots- including the catalyst? the nutes are meant to be used together according to a feeding schedule--- go to their website to see it... that MAY be your issue if using only one part of a multi-part nute regimen!
Make sure it is NOT a P-K issue!!!! as long as whatever you are using/mixed in has sufficient P-k, go w/ the vegging nutes--- but photo's would help us help you better!
jstone1633
Well-Known Member
Im using the whole line and I limed the mix so I was hoping ph wouldnt be the issue. They've had a couple AACT's as well. I just bought everything to make my own mix for next round so hopefully this wont be a problem anymore.
Kalyx
Active Member
You probably need to wait two weeks then harvest. IMO you should give your plants only plain water at that stage anyway. You may lose a bit of yield but the quality should still be top notch. If you go "fixing" things late in flower you can also detriment your quality. Chill. Senescence is a natural and good thing. Have you considered that it was just overfed the last few times and it couldn't fade at the end like it should for quality. More is not always the answer, especially with chelated bottle nutes, organic or synthetic.
FreeRangeZombie
Active Member
I have the whole line of roots organic liquid ferts and when I use them my plants did the same. I am guessing the nutes are changing the ph.. very a acidic stuff from what I remember. I think it took me a lot of ph up to change it when I did use it . Now it just sits in a bag.
silusbotwin
Well-Known Member
Coming from over a year of using the entire Roots lineup across 100s of plants I have come to find the following through trial and error:
-The 5 mil program is terrible. The nutrients however are not. Follow the recommendations on the bottles and forget the 5 mil program. Go with your own "15 mil" program. Just mix up the same nutes you would for the particular week but use 15 mil/gallon instead of 5. You will still want to gradually build up strength just like you would with a synthetic nute before following this "15 ml program"
-Use Earth Juice organic pH up to bring your pH back up after mixing a batch. Despite what you would normally do in organics (forgetting about pH), Roots Organics must still be pH adjusted. Just don't use chem ph adjusters. If you were using TLO growing style with nothing but RO water then you wouldn't have to worry about pH, but since you are using "soup style" organics you must control pH of your feed solution.
-It takes a shitload of pH up to bring a mix back up. After mixing a batch I usually end up with a pH around 4.10-4.20 and about 600-900 ppm. After adding pH adjuster it usually ends up around 1200 with RO water and about 1300 with water like mine (comes out 130 ppm at the tap after distilling and running through a chlorine snatcher)
Feel free to ask anything else you wish to know about this stuff. I like to think I am very well acquainted with this line of nutes. They are top notch nutes for sure and you will definitely still have top notch bud with lower yields. It took me about 9 months of having the exact same issue as you until I finally got the balls and courage to go balls out on the nute strength and I haven't seen a problem since. The whole 9 months, even though the plants faded WAY too early (around 4-5 weeks into flower) it was always top notch quality bud in the
I think your main problem is that you havent been pHing your mix, not to mention your feeding solution if about 3 times stronger than it needs to be. If you hadnt been giving such high strength feedings, your pH wouldn't have had such a difficult time adjusting in the soil.
Did you "cook" the lime in before planting in the mix? Dolomite lime must be composted before using or it will cause wicked ph fluctuations.
-The 5 mil program is terrible. The nutrients however are not. Follow the recommendations on the bottles and forget the 5 mil program. Go with your own "15 mil" program. Just mix up the same nutes you would for the particular week but use 15 mil/gallon instead of 5. You will still want to gradually build up strength just like you would with a synthetic nute before following this "15 ml program"
-Use Earth Juice organic pH up to bring your pH back up after mixing a batch. Despite what you would normally do in organics (forgetting about pH), Roots Organics must still be pH adjusted. Just don't use chem ph adjusters. If you were using TLO growing style with nothing but RO water then you wouldn't have to worry about pH, but since you are using "soup style" organics you must control pH of your feed solution.
-It takes a shitload of pH up to bring a mix back up. After mixing a batch I usually end up with a pH around 4.10-4.20 and about 600-900 ppm. After adding pH adjuster it usually ends up around 1200 with RO water and about 1300 with water like mine (comes out 130 ppm at the tap after distilling and running through a chlorine snatcher)
Feel free to ask anything else you wish to know about this stuff. I like to think I am very well acquainted with this line of nutes. They are top notch nutes for sure and you will definitely still have top notch bud with lower yields. It took me about 9 months of having the exact same issue as you until I finally got the balls and courage to go balls out on the nute strength and I haven't seen a problem since. The whole 9 months, even though the plants faded WAY too early (around 4-5 weeks into flower) it was always top notch quality bud in the
I think your main problem is that you havent been pHing your mix, not to mention your feeding solution if about 3 times stronger than it needs to be. If you hadnt been giving such high strength feedings, your pH wouldn't have had such a difficult time adjusting in the soil.
Did you "cook" the lime in before planting in the mix? Dolomite lime must be composted before using or it will cause wicked ph fluctuations.
I dont agree with PH-ing organic nutes but they are in a bottle, and your talking 3x normal amounts, the more bottled shit you use the lower its gonna push the PH so maybe you're on to something... Bottled organic products have to have the PH forced way low, 3's or 4's or whatever or else the bottles will explode on the shelves due to the microbial activity thats in them... Check out blue planted nutrients I believe the name is, I've read quite a few posts by the owner... They offer chem and organic bottled products... I however suggest getting your "just add water" grow on though... The best buds I've grown were just add water type growing... Much easier in general and much easier to see whats going on... No PH issues, no over feeding... Just add water... as easy as it gets... Throw a tea and/or a sweetener in here and there to keep the soil and plants happy...
Myself personally, I dont necessarily give my plants a grow nute at weeks 4/5 but I wouldnt even think about feeding them a bloom nute until weeks 3-4, even longer for a 10 week strain, I mainly go for the 8-9 weeker strains and havent done to many that were more than 9 weeks as of yet, in the future I will but for now I'm happy with the hybrids I'm running..
The first 2 weeks I would give grow nutes only, then for the following 2 weeks (3 and 4) I'd go from a 75/25 to 50/50 to a 25/75 (grow/bloom) until I got to a 100% bloom nutes. Everyone that uses a bottled product fails to realize that marijuana plants arent necessarily "blooming" to the point of requiring bloom enhancers and a full on bloom nute until week 4 and beyond for longer flowering strains...
Week 1 of 12/12 100% grow nutes
week 2 - 100% grow nutes - at a higher dose possibly depending on how they looked...
week 3 - 75/25, possibly 50/50 depending on how green they are... (grow/bloom, no bloom boosters) If they are dark dark green, you should go with 50/50 from here
week 4 - 50/50 (grow/bloom) depending on flower development I may consider a 1/2 dose of bloom booster...
week 5 - more than likely I'd just switch it up to 100% bloom and start with full doses of bloom enhancers or boosters.. you should really be cutting the N by now... But you can loose out a lot if you just cut the N completely before week 4...
week 6... I feed until the end of week 6, beginning to middle of 7 if they look like they're fading a little to early...
week 7 and beyond water only... reverse osmosis if its available...
Weeks 3, 4, and 5, you should assesing how much more N they need and/or if they need more or not, if they are dark dark green by weeks 3 and 4, you may wanna switch up to the bloom nute, this is where you/us playing god is important by reading the plant... Before flipping your plant, you want it to be 100% healthy, no crunchies on the leaves and as dark green as you can possibly get them (this means they are well stocked up on N) without burning them... Once you trigger flowering by going to 12/12 they are going to use up anything and everything they can, no other point in a plants life cycle will they be using as much nutrients... basically from flip until weeks 3-4-5 (again, on 8-9 week strains I'm stating this, but the halfway point of flowering cycle is where you should be transitioned to 100% bloom and heavy on the boosters or whatever you are using), right as the stretch ends is where you should be lowering the N and bringing up the P and K...
As I said, I'm basing my statements on a 8-9 week flowering strains... I grow organically so I dont have to adjust PH or worry about TDS and all that anymore.. I had enough of all that bullshit..
Myself personally, I dont necessarily give my plants a grow nute at weeks 4/5 but I wouldnt even think about feeding them a bloom nute until weeks 3-4, even longer for a 10 week strain, I mainly go for the 8-9 weeker strains and havent done to many that were more than 9 weeks as of yet, in the future I will but for now I'm happy with the hybrids I'm running..
The first 2 weeks I would give grow nutes only, then for the following 2 weeks (3 and 4) I'd go from a 75/25 to 50/50 to a 25/75 (grow/bloom) until I got to a 100% bloom nutes. Everyone that uses a bottled product fails to realize that marijuana plants arent necessarily "blooming" to the point of requiring bloom enhancers and a full on bloom nute until week 4 and beyond for longer flowering strains...
Week 1 of 12/12 100% grow nutes
week 2 - 100% grow nutes - at a higher dose possibly depending on how they looked...
week 3 - 75/25, possibly 50/50 depending on how green they are... (grow/bloom, no bloom boosters) If they are dark dark green, you should go with 50/50 from here
week 4 - 50/50 (grow/bloom) depending on flower development I may consider a 1/2 dose of bloom booster...
week 5 - more than likely I'd just switch it up to 100% bloom and start with full doses of bloom enhancers or boosters.. you should really be cutting the N by now... But you can loose out a lot if you just cut the N completely before week 4...
week 6... I feed until the end of week 6, beginning to middle of 7 if they look like they're fading a little to early...
week 7 and beyond water only... reverse osmosis if its available...
Weeks 3, 4, and 5, you should assesing how much more N they need and/or if they need more or not, if they are dark dark green by weeks 3 and 4, you may wanna switch up to the bloom nute, this is where you/us playing god is important by reading the plant... Before flipping your plant, you want it to be 100% healthy, no crunchies on the leaves and as dark green as you can possibly get them (this means they are well stocked up on N) without burning them... Once you trigger flowering by going to 12/12 they are going to use up anything and everything they can, no other point in a plants life cycle will they be using as much nutrients... basically from flip until weeks 3-4-5 (again, on 8-9 week strains I'm stating this, but the halfway point of flowering cycle is where you should be transitioned to 100% bloom and heavy on the boosters or whatever you are using), right as the stretch ends is where you should be lowering the N and bringing up the P and K...
As I said, I'm basing my statements on a 8-9 week flowering strains... I grow organically so I dont have to adjust PH or worry about TDS and all that anymore.. I had enough of all that bullshit..
silusbotwin
Well-Known Member
While I agree with 99% of everything you just said, I am still very confident that Roots Organics nutes must be pH'ed. I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Aurora Innovations rep who deals with my local hydro shop even told me this. I wouldn't normally take a rep's advice on growing plants but he had a degree in plant science and flexed his knowledge pretty hard for a few people so I took him at his word. The guy knew his stuff.
AliCakes
Well-Known Member
Even in soil mixes, some of the amendments people use will alter pH drastically over time. I have a friend who was using a product by Grower's Secret in every watering. The amendment is a great one that is partially derived from mushrooms. The problem is.....fungi raise pH by breaking organic matter down into ammonium. This step is needed, but using fungi every watering ended up smothering out the bacterial populations that are needed to alter ammonium into nitrates and nitrites. This ended up raising his pH to over 9.0......and killing several six foot tall trees at about six weeks into budding.
The moral of this story is to CREATE DIVERSE SOIL CULTURES in organics and CHECK THE pH OF YOUR SOIL from time to time.....especially if you are having problems with a plant.
If it is off, find an organic method to fix it. Sulfur and apple cider vinegar work great for lowering pH. Lime is an easy pH up and available everywhere. Bacterial dominated cultures generally lower pH, and fungi generally raise it.
WHITEY - An organic soil can be a very nutrient dense and still drift out of the proper pH zone for cannabis. While pH up and down chemicals are not needed in organics, one should still check the pH of their soil periodically. If things get skewed for one reason or another, it needs to be fixed or your plants will not take in the needed nutrients out of the soil......this is true in organic AND traditional farming.
Getting the best quality products out of your garden comes from dialing in your environment. Soil pH is a big part of that plant's environment and one that I would not recommend for anyone to neglect. If you chose to not check pH that is your choice, but if a problem arises - that is the first place I'd look.
While my degree is not in an area of horticulture, it is in a science field and I do have a bit of organic chemistry, micro biology, and horticulture under my belt.
I see this problem all too often and I don't want new growers to get frustrated with organics.
I don't like what salt-based, chemically derived fertilizers are doing to the environment and I hear many people saying that organic gardening does not work as well as the chemicals do. I believe that this is because many people do not understand the processes involved in the plant's natural feeding cycle. Without a basic understanding of what is going on, people accidentally shoot themselves in the foot on a regular basis by either taking poor quality advise or using a "more is better" approach to their gardens. Neither is a good idea.
AliCakes
Well-Known Member
This plant is in soil that is on it's fourth bloom cycle, without any bottled nutrients (organic or otherwise) added during the grows. It is in a no-till smart pot, that is top dressed once at transplant and once at 4-5 weeks in bloom. Other than that, I feed my plants water and molasses, along with the occasional homemade IMO serum. (www.prokashi.com/videos for instructions)
She is one of four plants under a 400w HPS. The room is well ventilated but does not have any CO2 supplementation or anything special. I keep the area clean and the soil moist, then I let nature do her thing. I am giving these details because anybody can afford to grow like this and once the environment is dialed in you can be very successful. Organics are easy, but if pH gets out of the appropriate zone, the soil gets depleted of bio available nutrients very quickly.
Delahaze bud @ 24 days:
She is one of four plants under a 400w HPS. The room is well ventilated but does not have any CO2 supplementation or anything special. I keep the area clean and the soil moist, then I let nature do her thing. I am giving these details because anybody can afford to grow like this and once the environment is dialed in you can be very successful. Organics are easy, but if pH gets out of the appropriate zone, the soil gets depleted of bio available nutrients very quickly.
Delahaze bud @ 24 days:
