Low cost SoG setup?

weednublet said:

I think I'll go with the 70w because I can buy them piece by piece and I can use them later on down the road for other shit.

Thanks a ton guys, for all your help. Now I need to find a whole unit to buy. The 400w has a hood with built in ballast and shit, hoping I can find one like that for 70W

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I don't think they have any thing like that for 70w HPS mainly because they don't produce alot of heat but also the parts aren't as costly. If you get a 6 inch cool tube and have it rigged up right you could use 2 70w HPS in it and you can use a ceramic light socket (regular kind that you can use CFLs in) but make sure that the light socket can handel up to 150w.

The advantage that I like that the 70w ballasts aren't in hoods and such because its easier to change but also you can have a fan blowing on them to cool them down.

Thanks. So basically, no matter what I go with, I want at least 70W per squarefoot. What about those lights I already bought? I linked em a few posts ago

So. I'm gonna feed the flowering plants some GH Flora Nova Bloom, what do I need to be feeding the clones/mothers? I just realized, they gotta eat too.

I might only be able to afford one 150w light once I get paid and it may be another two weeks before I can get another. How many plants, in SOG blooming, can a 150w support if they're all in the same tray?

Toolage 87 said:

Ok I did some number crunching and here's the cost to run the lights for 180 days for 12 hours per day

400w HPS = $77.76
Four 70w HPS - $54.43

The amount that you can save running 4 70w HPS $23.33

400w HPS cost per month = $12.96
Four 70w HPS cost per month = $9.07

----- Cost of the Bulbs -----
70w HPS = $10
400w HPS = $20


So you can buy roughly 2 70w HPS lights for the same cost as a 400w HPS light. Now yes that's only 2 lights but take into account the amount you save running 4 70w HPS lights you have $23.33 savings so buy 2 more bulbs and that's $3.33 you saved in your pocket.

Another thing that is good if you want to use four 70w HPS is that you can time them so that they come on all at once or you can do what I'd do is to have 2 of them come on for 12 hours but stager then so that when 1 of the first 2 turns off the one that is off can turn on then when the 2nd one turns off the 2nd light that was off can turn on. Or you can have 2 of them come on for 12 hours (1st flowering section) then when those turn off the other 2 come on for their 12 hours (2nd flowering area). My method could help you with heat problems depending where you live.

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hey tool i like your number crunching man, the only thing i disagree with is your not accounting for lumens per watt so lets look at this from another angle,

400w hps =50,000 initial lumens
70w hps =7,000 initial lumens
x4 70w hps's=28,000 inital lumens
so right away you can see x4 70 watters are nowhere near the amount of light a single 400 is. now here is another way to look at it (lumens per watt)
400w at 50,000 lumens breaks down to (50,000L/400w=125 lumens per watt) so every watt you pay for your getting 125 lumens
x4 70w at 28,000 lumens breaks down to (28,000/280w=100 lumens per watt) so you can see you have just lost 25 lumens for watts you pay for
now just for kicks 600 and 1000 watters
600w at 95,000 lumens breaks down to (95,000L/600w=158 lumens per watt) WOW what a increase
1000w at 140,000 lumens breaks down to (140,000L/1000w=140 lumens per watt) we are now back pedaling
see how it breaks down although something seems like a better deal on the outside when looking into doesnt seem so good anymore so basically pay for a little less power and get absolutely robbed for your lumens, so save that 3.33 in your pocket and save up for better lamps not looking to offend anybody just the truth.

Valid points.

Though, I've figured out that I want to grow 24 at a time in the grow trays. How many lumens do I need for that if I can keep them in a 4X4 or smaller area? I was thinking I could get away with 2 150W HPS lights.

Also, care to take a shot at the question above? What should I feed my mothers/clones? I'll be feeding my flowering guys Flora Nova.

Is it overkill to use superthrive, clonex and rooting solution in 1 inch cubes of rockwool for the clones, can I get away wit using just one?

i like to go with watts per plant when running larger plants, now you cant really do that in sog as you are cramming many small plants in a small area so you would want to go by lumens per square foot, now 2500 lumens per square foot is a baseline to "grow" plants but wont always give you quality yield so i like to go more if possible, now here is the math on that,
400w=50,000 lumens/ 16 square feet in a 4x4=3,125 lumens per square foot now this also depends on reflector choice, basically a cool tube 400w would do nicley in your space with some reflective material on the walls the, 70 watters are as follows
x4 70w=28,000 lumens/16 square feet in a 4x4=1,750 lumens per square foot, so again although you may be paying a little less elec you are taking a massive hit on lumens, these are the numbers that need to be crunched when setting up grow lighting not just cost to run them, im running over 6,000 lumens per square foot right now or 200 watts per plant and my ladies thank me everyday for not skimping on them

weednublet said:

Valid points.

Though, I've figured out that I want to grow 24 at a time in the grow trays. How many lumens do I need for that if I can keep them in a 4X4 or smaller area? I was thinking I could get away with 2 150W HPS lights.

Also, care to take a shot at the question above? What should I feed my mothers/clones? I'll be feeding my flowering guys Flora Nova.

Is it overkill to use superthrive, clonex and rooting solution in 1 inch cubes of rockwool for the clones, can I get away wit using just one?

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you could feed your mothers/clones bloom nutes if you want or you could get the nova grow if you would like, both work and i have ran both in my clones/mothers before with good results, for lighting i like cfl/t5 for veg area you could save money there no problem.

So, I'm gonna have to spring for a 400w over a 150 or two?

Good to know. I've got these from before, can they hang out over my neuts/mothers? http://www.conservationmart.com/p-431-loa-24-17w-grow-light-stick-7020gl-under-cabinet-light.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base Would feeding the clones/mommas blooming neuts fuck with anything?

weednublet said:

So, I'm gonna have to spring for a 400w over a 150 or two?

Good to know. I've got these from before, can they hang out over my neuts/mothers? http://www.conservationmart.com/p-431-loa-24-17w-grow-light-stick-7020gl-under-cabinet-light.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base Would feeding the clones/mommas blooming neuts fuck with anything?

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these lights are t8 which work well for cloneing but not so much for anything else, i have vegged and bloomed with these lights before and the growth was very slow, i wold aim for vegging/ mothers something a little stronger like t5 54watt floros or some good cfl's would work very well too.
also no feeding bloom nutes to your plants will not mess them up, the only thing is bloom nutes usually lack in the N(nitrogen) department, i have my vegging on a micro and bloom mix right now and they are healthy i also use calmag in veg/mothers for some added C(calcium) and Mg(magnesium) to keep them nice and green throughout.

I don't understand what T8 and T5 are. I know wattage and color spectrum values, but that's about it. How many CFLs would you suggest for mothers and what wattage?

weednublet said:

I don't understand what T8 and T5 are. I know wattage and color spectrum values, but that's about it. How many CFLs would you suggest for mothers and what wattage?

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t8's just dont put off as much light, that light is rated for 1000 lumens as for a 48" 54w t5 is going to run you around 5000 lumens per tube, i used a 4 bulb t5 fixture to veg a 2x2 flood tray packed with clones and 1 mother plant next to the tray worked great, so again its all about the lumens per watt the t8 is running about 58 lumens per watt well the t5 is running about 92 lumens per watt so basically for one 48" t5 you would have to have around 5 of those lights you linked, not to sure on the cfl's as i have never used them always used t5 for veg/mothers but the idea is the same as cfl's are just very compact t5's.

Are you for real?. Smoke an Oz a week but have no money?. Get a grip pal!. You need a priority check sunshine. Another of lifes' scrotes, got nothing to put up but smoke an Oz a week???

Give yourself a shake pal, look at your life, reason with yourself, and move forward with your own efforts!

Sorry but lumes don't stack. Its the lux that stack. Thus making what your trying to say that 4 70w HPS lumes don't add up doesn't make a difference.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

*Lumen:

This is the unit that defines "luminous flux", which is "radiant flux" (energy emission) adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye. In the context of a light bulb, it is a measure of the total number of photons being emitted by the bulb (summed over all directions), adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye to different photon energies.

What this means is that different colors are weighted differently according to a "luminosity function" that describes the sensitivity of our eyes. You can see this function and a more detailed description here.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/723-things-know-about-lighting.html

still in disagreement with you tool, fact of the matter is i dont care what unit of measurement you choose to use there is still no way that x4 70w hps's is going to compare to x1 400w hps period, i have seen so many lumens, lux, par, bla bla bla on so many web sites its outrageous (usually LED/EFDL users trying to talk up there products to compete with hps) simple fact is i choose to use lumens as a base measurement for light intensity, i have experienced it first hand trying the bare min of light per square foot with a 400 and i can say the end product was airy and overall 2nd rate if that. now i got another 400w and put it right next to the other and WOW like that same strain and all my yield doubled and the product was top notch, again there is really no argument for the difference here between x4 70w and 400w hps's i would put a 400w up to x4 70 watters any day of the week. maybe 2 150w's or even 2 250w but x4 70 watters i dont think so bro.

rustic said:

Are you for real?. Smoke an Oz a week but have no money?. Get a grip pal!. You need a priority check sunshine. Another of lifes' scrotes, got nothing to put up but smoke an Oz a week???

Give yourself a shake pal, look at your life, reason with yourself, and move forward with your own efforts!

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Way to focus on a small trivial detail. As I told the last jackass, I'm between checks and my supply of free smoke is out. I'm so sorry I don't have 700 bucks to drop on a full E&F system. When you're done on that pedestal, come down here with the rest of us poor peasants, we want to bask in your glory. I'm a college student, money is tight. If you're not gonna contribute, go the fuck away.

Tool&Dr: You guys are confusing the hell out of me. XD

drgreentm said:

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/723-things-know-about-lighting.html

still in disagreement with you tool, fact of the matter is i dont care what unit of measurement you choose to use there is still no way that x4 70w hps's is going to compare to x1 400w hps period, i have seen so many lumens, lux, par, bla bla bla on so many web sites its outrageous (usually LED/EFDL users trying to talk up there products to compete with hps) simple fact is i choose to use lumens as a base measurement for light intensity, i have experienced it first hand trying the bare min of light per square foot with a 400 and i can say the end product was airy and overall 2nd rate if that. now i got another 400w and put it right next to the other and WOW like that same strain and all my yield doubled and the product was top notch, again there is really no argument for the difference here between x4 70w and 400w hps's i would put a 400w up to x4 70 watters any day of the week. maybe 2 150w's or even 2 250w but x4 70 watters i dont think so bro.

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Oh ok let me use the math you used since I have led light that is 3.5w and puts out 280 lums = 80 lumes per watt

400w / 3.5w = 114 3.5w LEDs can be used for the same amount of wattage

So you say a 400w puts out 50k lumes

and you said that lumes can stack so

4 70w HPS put out 28k lumes

so using the numbers that you gave and saying that lumes stackhummm... 114 3.5w LEDs can put out 31,920 lums in all so the lumes per watt comes out to 80 lumes per watt. By the numbers that your giving me a 3.5w LED light should preform not to much under what a 70w HPS should do.

Oh hey the lumes for the 114 LEDs put together are onlt 18,080 lumes short of what a 400w HPS puts out? So by that I should get a decent yield using 114 3.5w LEDs oh wait but you said LED users are trying to make their stuff sound close to being strong ok

41w CFL can put out 3,000 lumes so that's 71.17 lumes per watt

400w / 41 = 9.75
So by your numbers 9 41w CFLs can put out 27,000 combined so that's only 23000 lumes short of the 400w HPS so with 9 41w CFLs. Sp a person should get a little over half of the amoutn of bud that a 400w HPS can produce?

What's the difference between net pots dropped in the lid of a dark tub and a flood tray with rockwool cubes just chillin in the open?

DWC is the most simple setup you can do. Flood and drain you need proper tubing going from your water pump up to your flood tray but then you have to have a hole that the water can drain back into the res to prevent over flowing but also put water back into your res tub. Also flood and drain systems take more space up because its almost like growing in soil but the soil is replaced by clay rocks and you have to flood the tray more then once a day.

Toolage 87 said:

DWC is the most simple setup you can do. Flood and drain you need proper tubing going from your water pump up to your flood tray but then you have to have a hole that the water can drain back into the res to prevent over flowing but also put water back into your res tub. Also flood and drain systems take more space up because its almost like growing in soil but the soil is replaced by clay rocks and you have to flood the tray more then once a day.

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tool first stop posting in this thread your making things significantly more complex FOR NO REASON. simply go away.
Second there is NO COMPARISON to a proper HPS vs ANYTHING. Led's are the way of the future but ATM they dont keep up with the output. however they are great support lighting
third a proper ebb n flow would consume less space than the same number of plants each with there own individual bucket.

yes lumens stack Simply enough if you shove a 600w in the same room as 1000w you WILL notice a VAST difference between the lumen output. Frankly my Ballast is dimmable so if you look at my pictures in my thread the blue tinted are 600watts vs the white ones are 1000watts.... it even makes a huge difference in my pictures

The difference between roots in a dark tub of water is they rely on the air your pumping into it to sustain the plants Vs Ebb n Flo you rely on the pump to add more water once your plants have drank all they needed but overall are sitting in air

weednublet keep in mind the number of plants will not mean a bigger yield vs Longer vegged big plants. You could easily stick with 6-10 plants and top then Scrog them and end up with the same
Gram Per Watt total at the end of your grow. It is completely based on the amount of veg time and Lumen output of your setup. if you have a thick canopy the lower branches wont receive any lumensCheck my lumen diminish rate

View attachment 1739386 This shows you what chlorophyll responds best to. look for a bulb with a similar chart