Make your own nutrients?
- Thread starter BuddWiser
- Start date
Mont@n@
Well-Known Member
yeah I use them to dial in my bottle of nutrients NPK ratios:
hydrobuddy 1.50, cannastat or pH spread sheet premixppm.
just look for this thread is a good start for people mixing their own salts (Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide
good luck and happy growing
hydrobuddy 1.50, cannastat or pH spread sheet premixppm.
just look for this thread is a good start for people mixing their own salts (Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide
good luck and happy growing
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yes. Hydrobuddy is really great, and the blog posts he made are also worth reading.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
That's how I used to do it. I made an excel spreadsheet with substances on one page and mixes on another page. It would use the substances to calculate element percentages based on how much of each substance is used.
Hydrobuddy can do the same thing, but can also do it in reverse. It can take a bunch of ppm levels and try to find a solution of how much of substance you need to make that mix. Since it always came up with the same results as my excel spreadsheet, i decided to give up my spreadsheet for hydrobuddy, and no longer push my spreadsheet.
Just making sure you know, but hydrobuddy is free to use, and open source. (unless you meant the nutrients are inexpensive!)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I should play with it.
I did mean the nutes, dry salts are stunningly less expensive than water bottles. With the salts, I can make my own stock solution and vary ratios depending on stage and strain.
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I'm also interested in mixing my own nutes. Does it make sense to first dissolve salts individually & store bulk in liquid form? Seems like it would be easier to whip up a batch using liquid measure.
This seems like a well informed group. How can I calculate approximately how much nutrients/water I will need for a given SF, over a single flower period? Say, 20k watts 22'x24' 240 plants vegged for 2 weeks. 3 gallon air pots, coco, co2, gavitas, and lastly my love & care. Seriously, how much does a plant consume in a lifetime?
This seems like a well informed group. How can I calculate approximately how much nutrients/water I will need for a given SF, over a single flower period? Say, 20k watts 22'x24' 240 plants vegged for 2 weeks. 3 gallon air pots, coco, co2, gavitas, and lastly my love & care. Seriously, how much does a plant consume in a lifetime?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You can make stock solutions with each dry salt, or you can make A+B stock solutions if you have a chelated form of iron. Hydrobuddy has a mode telling you which salt goes in A or B, and how how concentrated to make it.
I made A+B stock solutions of my own mix recently to 400x concentration, which means 10mL of A, 10mL of B to every liter of final reservoir solution. Look for Iron DTPA as a source of iron if you want to be able to mix it with calcium nitrate in the same stock solution.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I think that's closer to 100x, which is the strength of the stock solution I make.
The only component that's a bitch for me to mix into solution every time is the basic hydroponic mix, in my case the 5-12-26 with micros. One gallon of solution does 100 gallons of reservoir. Calcium nitrate dissolves almost instantly, MKP and epsom salt almost as fast, so I just start by weighing and mixing these in separate buckets, then add the stock solution. Mix while filling with water and Five minutes later I have two buckets of nutrients ready to pour into my res.
Alledgedly, for fully grown plants you should budget 4-6L per m2 per day, which is about 50-75 gallons/day for your space. Seems reasonable
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yes, this is exactly what it was. It's 10mL A, 10ml B, for 4 liters of stock solution, which I just use a gallon.Its 1:100, Prolly just a lapse in concentration, he thought gallon but typed litre
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Super simple. So after years of doing it, I'm still wondering what other people see in all the water bottles.
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
Lack of ambition/knowledge to mix their own?
Me personally, I have no idea on how to. Never was good with chemistry, but it seems like a more controlled way of doing things. Which isn't that why we do hydro? For control? And cheaper. Im sold on the cheaper.
I will have to check out that thread by fatman.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Nah man, they bought the bullshit- which is that there's MAGIC in them thar water bottles! This one says Fat Buds, so it MUST be good!
I don't do anything I'd call chemistry; I add the company's provided hydroponic mix product to water to make a stock solution, and I add measured- by mass, because they're solid- amounts of the rest of the needed dry nutrient salts. This is the reverse of chemistry because I'm trying NOT to create any chemical reactions.
This is why calcium nitrate is mixed in its own bucket, so it doesn't get any ideas.
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
Yeah but like you said this calcium nitrate needs to be mixed separately. Who would know that getting into it? Not me. I wouldnt even know what to buy and at which ratios to apply them at.
People pay for convenience. I am guilty of it. Not sure forever. Im sure I could learn to mix my own.
People pay for convenience. I am guilty of it. Not sure forever. Im sure I could learn to mix my own.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It's the first, biggest rule of mixing your own dry nutes- and of course violating it with waterbottles also leads to the dreaded lockout- which is a term tossed around giddily by hydro store employees trying to make more money, and does little to explain what's really going on... conveniently.
Calcium is not a terribly happy molecule in solution; it wants to be a solid, not suspended in a liquid. The only way to get it soluble in the first place is to mix it with nitrogen- which is good, because plants need lots of both in roughly equal proportions.
It's bad when you add other chemicals that calcium will bind easily with, like the sulfur in epsom salt. If the grower makes a mistake and allows these two substances to be together in too high a concentration, flocculation occurs and the resulting calcium sulfate is formed- and because it's 98% water INsoluble, the first thing it does is drop right out of the water column and leave the nutrient mix calcium deficient.
So you mix calcium nitrate in one bucket and the rest of your nutes in another. Add the calcium nitrate to your reservoir first so it dilutes and doesn't react with what you add later.
I have been using them for years and I know how to adjust the ratios for veg, and for early, peak and end stage bloom stages. It's really easy.
The basic ratio to follow is;
3-2-4. That just means that you want twice as much potassium and half again as much nitrogen as phosphorus in the mix. A lil less phosphorus is fine for veg, as the girls only need more when they're setting and filling in buds.
The magic secret of waterbottles is that there is no secret. They just rip off the unsuspecting.
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
I find my plants are always P def. most ratios I used have very little P. 3-1-5...5-2-6...3-1-2..the heavy 16 im using has the highest ratio and even then its 2.5:1 nitrogen to phos.
I was doing a little reading during lunch and the thing i was reading said to start with the MKP since its the only phosphorus source...it will also supply some K and to use potassium nitrate next to get the rest of the K and this also provides N. Then to use calcium nitrate which supplys rest of N with the addition if Ca. Then epsom salts for some Mg and S. Then the rest of the micros. They never mentioned anything about calcium nitrate being mixed separately.
The list was
calcium nitrate
magnesium sulfate heptahydrate
potassium nitrate
copper sulfate
potassium monobasic phosphate (mkp)
Manganese sulfate monohydrate
zinc sulfate dihydrate
sodium molybdate dihydrate
boric acid
iron EDTA (NaFeEDTA)
I was doing a little reading during lunch and the thing i was reading said to start with the MKP since its the only phosphorus source...it will also supply some K and to use potassium nitrate next to get the rest of the K and this also provides N. Then to use calcium nitrate which supplys rest of N with the addition if Ca. Then epsom salts for some Mg and S. Then the rest of the micros. They never mentioned anything about calcium nitrate being mixed separately.
The list was
calcium nitrate
magnesium sulfate heptahydrate
potassium nitrate
copper sulfate
potassium monobasic phosphate (mkp)
Manganese sulfate monohydrate
zinc sulfate dihydrate
sodium molybdate dihydrate
boric acid
iron EDTA (NaFeEDTA)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
That's a big, long list that's far more complicated than it really needs to be for us end users. We don't need to mix them, just use them properly:
Most dry chemical manufacturers take the hard work out of mixing most of those salts by providing a base 'mix'. The one I use is called 'hi K' from Hydrogardens.com, and it has the whole list above already in it and in the right proportions, with only the following exceptions;
Calcium nitrate
Epsom salt (mag sulfate hep.)
MKP
Thus the mix already created for you has the right ratios of ammonia for pH stability, all the micronutrients and is guaranteed soluble at high concentrations to make stock solutions.
So why isn't EVERYTHING in there already? Also pretty straightforward; calcium nitrate needs to be mixed separately so it doesn't react with the rest of the nutes. The others are only needed at certain times in the growth cycle or for certain plants, so you can add them only as you need them.
My stock solution isn't particularly strong, but it is convenient; one gallon for a one hundred gallon changeout of my RDWC system.
In one bucket, I put in epsom salt, MKP if needed and some hot water to dissolve them. Once they've done so, I add the stock solution made from the mix I just explained. That's part one of two parts.
Part two is putting the calcium nitrate in a separate bucket and dissolving that in water. It dissolves very readily and doesn't need to stand for long, if at all. This is why I do it first and put it in the res before I mess with the other part. This way it gets plenty of time to mix and dilute so it can't react when I dump in the other bucket.
Pour the two buckets into your nutrient reservoir, which needs to be at least half full of fresh water- this is necessary so parts A and B don't get together at too high a solution strength and undergo any unwanted chemical reactions.
Why go to the trouble? Several reasons;
1. I know what's in my nutrient solution, no fudging. And I can control my own ratios.
2. I know what is NOT in my nutrient solution; there are lots of non fertilizer additives to speed up growth out there- including stuff that's not safe for people. Yes, it's already happened that nutrient manufacturers were forced to alter their formulas to remove carcinogenic materials! Remember, they don't have to tell you about anything they add except the N-P-K numbers.
3. I make my own stock solutions, adding to convenience. Stuff that's dry stays stable for a long time- years, just keep it dry. It's easy to measure on a scale and it's precise.
4. My hundred gallon changeout costs me less than one dollar.
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You`ll likely need to make up a micro stock solution unless your res is pond sized
Using Fe-DTPA is preferably to EDTA. Potassium sulphate is a very useful chem if you need extra K but dont want the extra N from potassium nitrate. Magnesium nitrate can be used to replace all or part of the magnesium sulphate to tweak the N. Magnesium nitrate also plays nice wih calcium nitrate which can be helpful for some recipes eg: Cal-mag.
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