making my own nutes

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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Ive been playing around with nute calculators sourcing local dry fertilizers and trying to perfect the ratios I want and I was wanting to use some that are supposedly completely insoluble in water. According to Wiki. Such as Calcium carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, magnesium phosphate.

GH Bloom contains these in concentrate form. what gives? is there some secret I can use to dissolve these ?
 
spliffendz

spliffendz

Well-Known Member
There used to be an old post on OverGrow back in the day if memory serves me right where some geezer was telling how to make AN nutes if that is any help, I could be totally wrong though.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I don't know the exact manufacturing process they use but if you look on the label you'll see phosphoric acid. That's used to create a reaction with the carbonates creating a water soluble salt. The reaction creates the salt, water, and carbon dioxide. If you try this yourself be careful, wear safety equipment, eye protection for sure, and do plenty of research beforehand. It's not like baking a cake.

Calcium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble calcium phosphate
Magnesium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble magnesium phosphate
Potassium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble potassium phosphate

If you're going to be trying to make your own liquid fertilizer concentrate you want to make sure that what you mix is compatible.

Making Liquid Fertilizer Concentrates

Making Liquid Fertilizer Concentrates
customhydronutrients.com
 
S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
I don't know the exact manufacturing process they use but if you look on the label you'll see phosphoric acid. That's used to create a reaction with the carbonates creating a water soluble salt. The reaction creates the salt, water, and carbon dioxide. If you try this yourself be careful, wear safety equipment, eye protection for sure, and do plenty of research beforehand. It's not like baking a cake.

Calcium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble calcium phosphate
Magnesium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble magnesium phosphate
Potassium carbonate + phosphoric acid = water soluble potassium phosphate

If you're going to be trying to make your own liquid fertilizer concentrate you want to make sure that what you mix is compatible.

Making Liquid Fertilizer Concentrates

Making Liquid Fertilizer Concentrates
customhydronutrients.com
Click to expand...
magnesium phosphate was the one I was most interested in.

So dissolving magnesium carbonate in phosphoric acid gives you magnesium phosphate but that magnesium phosphate is then left in water:

according to wiki that isn’t soluble.
Dissolving monomagnesium phosphate in water, forms phosphoric acid and depositing a solid precipitate of dimagnesium phosphate trihydrate:

Mg(H2PO4)2 + 3 H2O → Mg(HPO4).3H2O + H3PO4
 
klx

klx

Well-Known Member

DIY Hydroponic Nutrients in 5 minutes

Pour salts in bottles: Part A: Calcium Nitrate Potassium Nitrate Iron DTPA (10 or 11%) Part B: Monopotassium Phosphate Magnesium Sulfate Manganese Sulfate Sodium Borate Zinc Sulfate Sodium Molybdate Fill the rest of the bottles with RO/distilled water. Potassium Hydroxide flakes if you need...
www.rollitup.org
 
S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
klx said:

DIY Hydroponic Nutrients in 5 minutes

Pour salts in bottles: Part A: Calcium Nitrate Potassium Nitrate Iron DTPA (10 or 11%) Part B: Monopotassium Phosphate Magnesium Sulfate Manganese Sulfate Sodium Borate Zinc Sulfate Sodium Molybdate Fill the rest of the bottles with RO/distilled water. Potassium Hydroxide flakes if you need...
www.rollitup.org
Click to expand...
seen that thanks.

it doesn’t really give me any control on the amount of nitrogen though. As when I turn down the nitrogen I’ll have little calcium

that’s why I’m looking at triple superphosphate (calcium phosphate)

calcium carbonate
Magnesium carbonate
Magnesium sulfate
Calcium sulfate.

I did some calculations with Epsom and gypsum but I think the sulfur goes quite a bit too high. Not sure at what point sulfur will end up toxic
 
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S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
these are the figures ive got so far discounting all the micros

week 1-3 flower

Nitrogen (N) 144
Phosphorous (P) 150
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 230
Magnesium 92
Silicon 58.2
Sulfur 102.0

week 3-6
Nitrogen (N) 103
Phosphorous (P) 203
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 219
Magnesium 92
Silicon 58
Sulfur 102.0


week 6-8
Nitrogen (N) 83
Phosphorous (P) 150
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 257
Magnesium 93
Silicon 58
Sulfur 102.2

week 9
Nitrogen (N) 52
Phosphorous (P) 75
Potassium (K) 77
Calcium 90
Magnesium 46
Silicon 58
Sulfur 51.0


ive based this off loads of different bits of research and smashed it all together so I may be on the wrong path so could use some opinions from people experienced in this..
baring in mind I am using high powered leds with over 1200ppfd across the canopy and co2 so believe I need extra calcium/magnesium than usual

the ratios are the most important and not the actual ppm value as i can dial down the dosage as long as im on the right track with ratios
 
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xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
SamWE19 said:
magnesium phosphate was the one I was most interested in.

So dissolving magnesium carbonate in phosphoric acid gives you magnesium phosphate but that magnesium phosphate is then left in water:

according to wiki that isn’t soluble.
Dissolving monomagnesium phosphate in water, forms phosphoric acid and depositing a solid precipitate of dimagnesium phosphate trihydrate:

Mg(H2PO4)2 + 3 H2O → Mg(HPO4).3H2O + H3PO4
Click to expand...
I see that you're right. Other phosphates created by the reaction between acid and carbonates are. Like I said, I don't know the manufacturing process used in the production of the fertilizer. But if they're using carbonates there is some method for making it water soluble. I'm not a chemist so someone with more knowledge probably knows more about the process.
 
S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
calcium hydroxide dissolves in water at 1.5g/l why aren't people using this as a calcium supplement? it would give complete control over the calcium
 
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spek9

Well-Known Member
SamWE19 said:
calcium hydroxide dissolves in water at 1.5g/l why aren't people using this as a calcium supplement? it would give complete control over the calcium
Click to expand...
My understanding is that although Calcium Hydroxide is more soluble than Calcium Carbonate, it does add significant alkalinity to the solution.
 
S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
My understanding is that although Calcium Hydroxide is more soluble than Calcium Carbonate, it does add significant alkalinity to the solution.
Click to expand...
Just noticed that.
Im trying to find a way to decouple magnesium
And calcium from other elements and it’s a struggle.
One other option I’ve just come across is calcium humate still working on finding out if it will work in hydroponics
 
S

SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Magnesium aspartate or magnesium citrate
Calcium lactate
Mono ammonium glutamate
calcium phosphate
Potassium silicate
Monopotassium glutamate
Magnesium sulfate

that’s my research done for the night...

anyone got any input or reasons why these could not be used? They are all soluble in water. As far as I understand it the lactate and glutamate are amino acid chelates

which allow me to keep calcium and magnesium always the same but able to reduce nitrogen increase or decrease phosphorous independently
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
SamWE19 said:
these are the figures ive got so far discounting all the micros

week 1-3 flower

Nitrogen (N) 144
Phosphorous (P) 150
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 230
Magnesium 92
Silicon 58.2
Sulfur 102.0

week 3-6
Nitrogen (N) 103
Phosphorous (P) 203
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 219
Magnesium 92
Silicon 58
Sulfur 102.0


week 6-8
Nitrogen (N) 83
Phosphorous (P) 150
Potassium (K) 154
Calcium 257
Magnesium 93
Silicon 58
Sulfur 102.2

week 9
Nitrogen (N) 52
Phosphorous (P) 75
Potassium (K) 77
Calcium 90
Magnesium 46
Silicon 58
Sulfur 51.0


ive based this off loads of different bits of research and smashed it all together so I may be on the wrong path so could use some opinions from people experienced in this..
baring in mind I am using high powered leds with over 1200ppfd across the canopy and co2 so believe I need extra calcium/magnesium than usual

the ratios are the most important and not the actual ppm value as i can dial down the dosage as long as im on the right track with ratios
Click to expand...
For comparison. Here are some common nutes and numbers.

The-Matrix (3).PNG
 
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Halman9000

Halman9000

Well-Known Member
I am running experiments growing mint plants in 1/2 pint pots , using Homemade experimental liquid natural fertilizer. In theory you could run experiments on many plants that have different nute needs , and see how that goes . By doing this you might see what happens to all the test plants , like Peppermint , Parsley and plants like that .
 
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