Miracle Grow vs. Foxfarm Ocean Forest side by side comparison

Double Grape Apollo by The HC line (Void P10 x Grape Apollo by Frost Bros)

She was just created and this is her maiden run. Both of her parents are some of my favorite smoke I had no doubt she would turn out nice. And she did

Glad to contribute. I've grown houseplants for years in MG with good results so I wasn't worried about mj growing in it;after all it is a weed and weeds will grow up out of cement.
I like journals like this that compare the expensive stuff to the cheap stuff. Thanks for doing it. I think a lot of new growers get overwhelmed by reading all the journals etc. that talk about using as many as ten or twelve, usually, expensive products. I'm a fan of helping out the high school, college kid or someone with little resources, who wants to grow but has no dough. I remember when I was in their place and would have loved for someone to have helped me grow on a really tight budget. Journals like this could be a big help to them.

hmmm.... interesting

Every two weeks into budding leech them good, the salts will build and it can be bad (they go down hard and fast if they get salt buildup) its better to refresh and refeed. Adding a myco tea should be done more frequently on the mg ones because the chemically chelated nutrients kill the bacteria (every 1.5-2 weeks). Of course that said it should be given opposite a feeding for maximum benefit. As for flushing agents you know about clearex and junk, really this is what its for on those leeching days. Not completely necessary but does release the salts better than water alone. With it like 50% over water, without 100% over water.
One thing about recycling soil, it can be hot especially if treated with compost bacteria and some strains will freak out with too much pk early.

Hey cowboy what's going on. Are the salts from the MG soil or MG nutes or both. At one tsp/gal every two weeks I don't see how salts could build up that much, not doubting just wondering. It must be from the soil too I would think.


Day 4 today I believe. No water for them on day three, today they will get a bit of a drenching the first two days were just very little water each time. I'll take pics of the test subjects like once a week or hell maybe just whenever the mood strikes

Highlanders cave said:

Hey cowboy what's going on. Are the salts from the MG soil or MG nutes or both. At one tsp/gal every two weeks I don't see how salts could build up that much, not doubting just wondering. It must be from the soil too I would think.


Day 4 today I believe. No water for them on day three, today they will get a bit of a drenching the first two days were just very little water each time. I'll take pics of the test subjects like once a week or hell maybe just whenever the mood strikes

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Ya the soil has a fair amount in it already, probably wont need to feed for a few weeks actually. The mg base with normal tap water is just really heavy due to how it is produced and obviously the concentration is high. The high amount of mineral salts in the residue is a biproduct of the chemical chelation of minerals in the blend.

Ultimately the chelation of the nutrients is the cost point in the production of chemically, organically derived, and purely organic nutrients. True organics take the most time, effort, and resources to produce because the chelation is done biologically then has to be stabilized because it is a living product.

**Rule of thumb with chem fert.. when in doubt, flush em out!

bassman999 said:

I found Extreme Gardening Mykos 2.2lb for $21.06/free ship on Amazon. Do you use the Azos with it? I read that they are best used together.

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That is my source shsss.... sometimes they sell out quick... my local hydro store used to have it for $15.99 a bag but they stopped carrying the big bags now... only the baby packets.... I used to use AZOZ but it was 2 messy for me... I liked it but the consistency and stuff just ugh!!!! Its like a very very dusty light powder gets all over, when saturated it gets sticky gummy before melting down.... Like I said it was 2 messy for me.

I am sure they prob. work awesome together and in the distant past I had ran em both together, infact I still got a whole bag of Azoz..... but nope just Mykos....

"

Originally Posted by seanel

careful reusing soil there will be alot of residual nutrients in them.. might wanna use a leaching product first... spray tops down with neem reall good too."




Thats why i use Hygrozyme/Sensizyme. they loosen up old salts and release them as nutes. My soil does fine without leaching. But i am organic, so anything that is left over is fine."

I am of the same opinion and run the same stuff when reusing coco which has been feed nearly entirely with synthetic salt nutes. I flush for the last 3-7 days depending on the strain and how it ripens out at the end.... but I have never had excess nute probs. or anything reusing my medium... buying a "leaching" product isn't necessary if you flush it pretty well....

Also the Enzymes are not for breaking down salts per-say.... they eat dead/dying root mass which sometimes contain the extra/unused salts... also by breaking down the dead and dying root matter and organic matter in the soil/medium it helps with the soil structure and composition lighting it up and releasing the old plants hold over the earth both literally and figuratively which allows for the new plant to feel right at home.

Senseimilla said:

If you do add something, add coco and perlite. That's what I use anyway

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SO yeah that is totally what I use too.... use just the standard IDK not the big and chunky perlite but the regular like potting soil sized perlite and some coco. Also this stretches your soil and you get way more bang for your buck!!! If you don't wanna have to buy a bag of both perlite and coco..... Botanicares Areation formula is pretty damn good...... its like 2cuft. for like $15-$20 depending on where you go. I cut my M.G. like 1:1 or sometimes 70% M.G. 30-35% COCO/Perlite mix.

Highlanders cave said:

Hey T how's it going. I am using MG nutes along with some inexpensive kelp fertilizer, its in the first pic. I don't like the consistancy of the mg soil, it needs to be much more areated I'm thinking. Haha MG nutes are almost free lol, like under 5 bucks for a big box. Should last a long time considering it calls for a 1/2 teaspoon once every 2 weeks.

Yeah if a mod wanted to stick this someplace else other than Advanced they could have picked a better place to put it,,,Organics is the last place it should be

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I use the same MG mix and mine seem to have good aeration i got SIX 2 1/2 ft plants in 2 liter pop bottles flowering.

Highlanders cave said:

Hey cowboy what's going on. Are the salts from the MG soil or MG nutes or both. At one tsp/gal every two weeks I don't see how salts could build up that much, not doubting just wondering. It must be from the soil too I would think.


Day 4 today I believe. No water for them on day three, today they will get a bit of a drenching the first two days were just very little water each time. I'll take pics of the test subjects like once a week or hell maybe just whenever the mood strikes

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Not the soil it's the nutes i actually noticed the salt buildup when i supplemented the soil

Actually the amount of nutrients in the MG soil is very small and that is why the directions tell you to start feeding with the regular MG nutes after a couple of weeks; the nutes in the soil are pretty much used up at that point. I'd suggest you use MG's feeding schedule as a general guideline only. I honestly would feed them MG nutes every other time you water in veg. and then every time you water when they are in bloom. The EC for the recommended amount of nutes by MG is only .6 EC, tested with my calibrated Milwaukee EC meter; which is pretty conservative. In soil, I think .6 EC is pretty much where you want to be. At least I've had very good luck with using Dyna-Gro nutes at that level and that is also the EC Mandala recommended.
MJ is a very fast growing plant and I'm pretty sure that the scientist at MG didn't have mj in mind when they made up their product and their feeding guidelines. Although their MG tomato nutes would probably be more ideal for mj since tomatoes are also fast growing. Also the ratio MG uses is almost ideal for mj. MJ is a nitrogen loving plant so the higher ratio of nitrogen should work well for mj. My 2 cents and as always, watch your plants and see how they look. They look pretty and healthy then you are doing it right. Good luck.

albsure said:

Actually the amount of nutrients in the MG soil is very small and that is why the directions tell you to start feeding with the regular MG nutes after a couple of weeks; the nutes in the soil are pretty much used up at that point. I'd suggest you use MG's feeding schedule as a general guideline only. I honestly would feed them MG nutes every other time you water in veg. and then every time you water when they are in bloom. The EC for the recommended amount of nutes by MG is only .6 EC, tested with my calibrated Milwaukee EC meter; which is pretty conservative. In soil, I think .6 EC is pretty much where you want to be. At least I've had very good luck with using Dyna-Gro nutes at that level and that is also the EC Mandala recommended.
MJ is a very fast growing plant and I'm pretty sure that the scientist at MG didn't have mj in mind when they made up their product and their feeding guidelines. Although their MG tomato nutes would probably be more ideal for mj since tomatoes are also fast growing. Also the ratio MG uses is almost ideal for mj. MJ is a nitrogen loving plant so the higher ratio of nitrogen should work well for mj. My 2 cents and as always, watch your plants and see how they look. They look pretty and healthy then you are doing it right. Good luck.

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Tomatoes and cannabis share environmental and nutrient requirements, your right about that and that the tomato food is more balanced for them. The AP MG will do the trick though, just have to dial it back in flower (too much N). Else your girls will be all bushy and leafy. Also start about 1/2 strength on that particular MG, it's strong.

I don't think I'd say .6 EC is strong; as a matter of fact compared to what a lot of companies recommend, that's pretty weak. You are right that at the start of veg. it is a little strong and that is why I recommended you feed them every other watering. I agree though to be on the safe side at the start of veg. and for maybe the first 3 to 4 weeks of veg. maybe do half strength. I usually veg. for two months and after the first month you could feed every watering at MG's recommended dosage.
MG is really not strong if fed at the recommended dosage. I've seen a whole bunch of other nute companies recommend a much higher EC than .6. Also not sure I agree with you that the nitrogen is too much in bloom. It's higher than most mj nute companies recommend but then again I'm not sure that those companies aren't just trying to sell more products.
I really wouldn't care if my mj plant got big and bushy as long the the buds got big and beefy. I'd love to see a comparison test using MG throughout the grow cycle compared to using MG only in veg. and other products during bloom to see if it hampered bud development. I've grown many a flowering plant with MG throughout it's life cycle and had beautiful blooms. Again though whatever works. If the plant looks healthy and vibrant then you are doing the right thing.

I wanted to be clear on my recommendations. If you are going the use half strength MG during the first three to four weeks of veg., assuming a two month veg. cycle, then I'd use that at every watering. If you are going to use the regular recommended dosage according to MG then I'd use that every other watering at the very early stages of veg. If you only veg. for four weeks , like a lot of people do, then I'd use half strength at every watering for the first two weeks and the recommended dosage at every watering for the last two weeks of veg. I'd use the recommended dosage at every watering throughout bloom and use only water the last week to week and a half of bloom.
I think the main point I want to make is that MG nutes are NOT super strong and will not lead to excessive salt build up like a lot of people think. As a matter of fact the nute concentration in the recommended dosage is rather modest; except in the very early stages of veg. then I'd say it's MAYBE a LITTLE strong. I've used their recommended dosage on very young plants and seen vigorous growth. Your eyes will tell you how well your plant is doing.

Thanks for all the info guys. I'll have to touch base later on. Crazy busy here today, just got back from bringing my son and his girlfriend to the hospital for a couple of tests. He totaled his car on the interstate last Friday and was having some residual pains from it. Everything seems to be fine though and pops is back home now with scissors in hand

You've got something to help him out with those residual pains don't you? Glad they are both ok.

Sending positive vibes for the HC clan....
cindy/kushage salad
puff, puff, pass

Im glad he is okay, and hope no long term damage is there like most of us seem to have from one thing or another.

I thought that i felt some positive vibes in the air man thanks haha! Can never have too much

Passing back Grape Apollo >>>>>>

Yeah albsure he was alone in the car. The way I typed it was confusing, his girlfriend just came along with us to keep him company on the ride to the hospital. Or just as likely to get out of class. Thanks for the thoughts, could have been much worse.

Hey bassman how's it going. No everything appears ok, the woozieness he was feeling apparently is from a viral infection he just developed in the last day or so and the sharp pain that comes and goes in his head is caused by the swollen lymph nodes? Drs diagnosis anyways.

He hydroplaned during a rainstorm in a high wind area, slid into the medium and was stopped by some trees from going on to opposite direction lanes. I haven't seen the trees but it looks like the car lost the fight. Two other cars did the same thing in that same area during the course of the time it took the officer to talk to him

Sounds like maybe the trees saved him from worse injury.

The 1st rain is always the worst, and I hate driving then, or during any rain honestly.

I assumed it was your 1st rain like here, but I dont know the weather where you are so....

Sounds like lots are sick right now. The wife had a flu type thing, anf the neck pain is still there but otherwise better, but now the youngest is home sick 2nd day in a row.