Misunderstanding about organics and synthetics.

Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Hey guys, I have a misunderstanding about organics and synthetics. I've been growing organics (close to subcools mix) for a few runs and have had great results. I know u can't add any cheated salts to organics because it will destroy all microlife but I hear and read about people using organic teas or adding an organic substance to there synthetic nute mix or in dwc while using synthetics. I figured adding organic anything to a synthetic grow OP would kill the organics. Pardon my ignorance but if someone could shed some light on what I'm not understanding would be great. Thanks!

Btw my question stems from me doing a dwc run this go round with Jack's 321 (doing great!) and I've read about people adding organic teas and I'm just not understanding somthing because i figure no micro life would survive in the res. Thanks guys!
 
Hey there, this is my first ever post, so bear with me. I use botanicare pure blend pro and bloom. I'm having issues when I add the nutes, the water turns cloudy white. I figure there is something in my water that is killing the good microbes in the pbp. After a day or so, it all settles, water is clear, and I can add more nutes and all is good. But if I add more water, it gets cloudy.
 
Sidvicious1 said:
Hey guys, I have a misunderstanding about organics and synthetics. I've been growing organics (close to subcools mix) for a few runs and have had great results. I know u can't add any cheated salts to organics because it will destroy all microlife but I hear and read about people using organic teas or adding an organic substance to there synthetic nute mix or in dwc while using synthetics. I figured adding organic anything to a synthetic grow OP would kill the organics. Pardon my ignorance but if someone could shed some light on what I'm not understanding would be great. Thanks!

Btw my question stems from me doing a dwc run this go round with Jack's 321 (doing great!) and I've read about people adding organic teas and I'm just not understanding somthing because i figure no micro life would survive in the res. Thanks guys!
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So synthetics don't necessarily kill ALL the microbes... however, the microbes will eventually starve or be unable to grow because they have nothing to break down in a DWC (missing organic matter). So therefore there is no carbon source for microbes to repopulate. So they are gonna be short lived in a synthetic nutrient environment.

Another thing some don't realize is that using synthetic nutrients throws the osmotic balance of the microbes' cells all out of wack because the ppm in the cell is generally gonna be less than the ppm of the nutrient solution. So it's going to cause water to be pulled from the cell, similarly if you add salt to veggies or a piece of meat, it draws out the water. So the cells (microbes) will be extremely stressed and/or will shrivel up and die in the nutrient solution.

And furthermore, the plant, in a natural living soil environment, excretes exudates that feed microbes (and more specifically summon certain microbes) in exchange for nutrients that the plant wants/needs. When feeding nutrients that are already in a chelated form, the plant decreases the amount of exudates it produces to a minimum, since things are already plant available form. No sense in wasting resources/energy.

I'm sure there are other things that are impacted too, but I'm just gonna go with that for now haha.

with that being said, i'm sure there may be some benefit to things like mammoth P, i've heard that they really help keep the system "clean". I have no experience with that myself, so i'm only going on hearsay from the local hydro shop guys (i laughed at them when they suggested mammoth P microbes, as I'm already full of microbes with soil). I would also bet that there are some organisms that would probably be beneficial to a hydro style grow, i just couldn't tell you which ones specifically.

Personally i see no need to put "teas and such" into a system like DWC. it's just gonna scum things up if I had to form a hypothesis about your question. Just seems like a waste of time and resources.
 
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ShLUbY said:
So synthetics don't necessarily kill ALL the microbes... however, the microbes will eventually starve or be unable to grow because they have nothing to break down in a DWC (missing organic matter). So therefore there is no carbon source for microbes to repopulate. So they are gonna be short lived in a synthetic nutrient environment.

Another thing some don't realize is that using synthetic nutrients throws the osmotic balance of the microbes' cells all out of wack because the ppm in the cell is generally gonna be less than the ppm of the nutrient solution. So it's going to cause water to be pulled from the cell, similarly if you add salt to veggies or a piece of meat, it draws out the water. So the cells (microbes) will be extremely stressed and/or will shrivel up and die in the nutrient solution.

And furthermore, the plant, in a natural living soil environment, excretes exudates that feed microbes (and more specifically summon certain microbes) in exchange for nutrients that the plant wants/needs. When feeding nutrients that are already in a chelated form, the plant decreases the amount of exudates it produces to a minimum, since things are already plant available form. No sense in wasting resources/energy.

I'm sure there are other things that are impacted too, but I'm just gonna go with that for now haha.

with that being said, i'm sure there may be some benefit to things like mammoth P, i've heard that they really help keep the system "clean". I have no experience with that myself, so i'm only going on hearsay from the local hydro shop guys (i laughed at them when they suggested mammoth P microbes, as I'm already full of microbes with soil). I would also bet that there are some organisms that would probably be beneficial to a hydro style grow, i just couldn't tell you which ones specifically.

Personally i see no need to put "teas and such" into a system like DWC. it's just gonna scum things up if I had to form a hypothesis about your question. Just seems like a waste of time and resources.
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Thanks for the info, it really helped solve my confusion. Yea fb I didn't plan on using any teas or anything in the dwc, just wanted to u derstand more the consequence of adding anything organic to it. Like I use hydroguard, that of course you know is a bennie, and was just confused on how it survives in the res. Which like u say they can live in there there just not going to stay alive for to long because of the lack of organic matter. Thanks for clearing that up.

Another question I have is five bought a blend (kelp4less extreme blend) of fulvic, amino, and humic acid for my living organics and it has helped my girls take off like no other. The directions say how much to mix in a gal t ok water but it doesn't say how often and wonder if u could shed some light. I've also added it to my dwc ladies and they are freakishly taking off. Great stuff I just dont want to over do it in my organics, dwc I can always dump and start over. Also the blend says it can be used as a foliar feed once a week though I've never tried foliar feeding I'm curious to see if it's worth trying. Anyway thanks for ur insite on these issues
 
Sidvicious1 said:
Thanks for the info, it really helped solve my confusion. Yea fb I didn't plan on using any teas or anything in the dwc, just wanted to u derstand more the consequence of adding anything organic to it. Like I use hydroguard, that of course you know is a bennie, and was just confused on how it survives in the res. Which like u say they can live in there there just not going to stay alive for to long because of the lack of organic matter. Thanks for clearing that up.

Another question I have is five bought a blend (kelp4less extreme blend) of fulvic, amino, and humic acid for my living organics and it has helped my girls take off like no other. The directions say how much to mix in a gal t ok water but it doesn't say how often and wonder if u could shed some light. I've also added it to my dwc ladies and they are freakishly taking off. Great stuff I just dont want to over do it in my organics, dwc I can always dump and start over. Also the blend says it can be used as a foliar feed once a week though I've never tried foliar feeding I'm curious to see if it's worth trying. Anyway thanks for ur insite on these issues
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Well in a good soil, humic and fulvic acids are going to be naturally present from the breakdown of organic matter, so if you have a great compost source, you are already set. These acids benefit the plant directly increasing water uptake and helping bond stronger positively charged ions like Fe3+ and make them available to the plant (a form of natural chelation). They also help contribute the soil acidity, due to their multi-carboxyl group structure, so they are a buffer in a sense. Humics are much larger and more complex in structure than Fulvics. They also help hold on to toxins that may be present in the soil, and keep them in an immobile state. In addition to benefiting the plant, they also benefit the microbes who are organotrophs because it is an added source of carbon to the soil. Fungi will also feed on these molecules (fungi love carbon energy!)

It's important to not overdo things just because you saw a benefit the first few times. more is not always better. and remember, most companies who sell you something tell you to use it more often because they want you to go back and buy more :)
 
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