MMPR Grow op: Small Scale

freddyc said:

Sorry if this appears presumptuous but, to reply to your claim......(News Flash: Not everyone wants to grow this at home).....well this may be true for some, in fact their current accommodations may not allow for it. The bottom line is there are folks who cannot afford the prices out there. They are usually the ones who suffer in silence.

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I agree entirely with this. There are a couple of ways this can be combatted:
1. Treat it like every other medicine and offer benefits for it (some companies are already moving in this direction)
2. Compassionate pricing / shake / etc from LPs - The current "compassionate pricing" is a joke but there's a way it can be done right

There's obviously many other solutions, but I do agree entirely that the one major downside to the MMPR is that you cannot grow at home.
I don't care about the rest of the "negatives" many people cry about. Pricing, availability, strains, etc - this is all just the market developing as the list grows and the companies on the list grow. Not allowing grumpy old @The Hippy to grow is the one problem I don't think the MMPR has addressed properly.

WHATFG said:

They had every opportunity to make the mmar a viable program. But they just don't subscribe to the cheap medicine model...oh and it didn't generate any money either so it wasn't worth the effort it required to keep it viable. Would it really have been that difficult to have local,police, fire, whatever, inspect and ya or nay home grows BEFORE an ATP or pupl was issued? Now that money is involved...

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I think we can all be smart enough and realize that this was not the only problem.
1. DG supply on the open market - an obvious concern for the government who believes that cannabis is dangerous
2. Health concerns with the product being supplied
3. Stupid things like grow-op fires (gave them an excuse more than anything)

I bolded #1 because I believe it's the most important of the bunch.
With DGs in place, Compassion Clubs were growing their customer base faster than ever and the number of patients was increasing faster than expected. Suddenly this system of "just a few" patients was growing and needed more governance (in their eyes). Then they do their annual drug survey and they find out that over 400,000 Canadians have used marijuana in the past year for, what they claim to be, "medical reasons". All of a sudden the guys in their leather arm chairs get all up in arms and suddenly we have the MMAR in the spot light.

Home grow inspections wouldn't have helped unless they were ongoing.

Oddish you say people just cry about pricing availability strain selection etc. this is because it is medicine not a rec market!! Of course people are going to be up set about this stuff because it ties into patients quality of life especially the patients who are mmar holders. To tell us patients that these are just growing pains we will have to deal with is cruel and unusual punishment. Think about it. Let's say you have to take morphine for sever pain. You have been taking it for the last say 3 years now some rich government asshole wants to get a cut off of you now you cannot afford your medicine so you have to live in pain. Is this just and fair I think not.

Peace

GrowRock said:

Oddish you say people just cry about pricing availability strain selection etc. this is because it is medicine not a rec market!!

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I understand this and I'm well aware of this, but it isn't anything like Morphine. Morphine doesn't come in 500 different strains, effects, etc. Morphine can't be grown 20 different way and harvested, cured, etc countless different ways. Marijuana is a plant and there are so many different variations that they can't all be available at one time.
That said, that issue ties back to the same issue as I noted before, as this effects primarily home growers.

Those who were purchasing from the MMAR or Compassion Clubs should see their strains or very similar strains available, since almost every LP got their entire source supply from the MMAR. There will definitely be some that fall by the wayside, but I think this is more for those who have been growing their strain their way and now have to find an alternative to that which is carried by an LP.

oddish said:

I agree entirely with this. There are a couple of ways this can be combatted:
1. Treat it like every other medicine and offer benefits for it (some companies are already moving in this direction)
2. Compassionate pricing / shake / etc from LPs - The current "compassionate pricing" is a joke but there's a way it can be done right

There's obviously many other solutions, but I do agree entirely that the one major downside to the MMPR is that you cannot grow at home.
I don't care about the rest of the "negatives" many people cry about. Pricing, availability, strains, etc - this is all just the market developing as the list grows and the companies on the list grow. Not allowing grumpy old @The Hippy to grow is the one problem I don't think the MMPR has addressed properly.

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As I've said before, if they wanted affordable cannabis, they would have permitted outdoor production. You can produce it for just pennies a glass outside, so even with profit margins, patients could buy it for less than a dollar a gram. It would also provide a new crop to struggling farmers rather than mining companies.

To address the obvious security concerns, they produce opium poppies in a number of developed countries so it is obviously not insurmountable.

It stores well enough that it could easily be produced as a field crop.

The only reason to ban outdoor production is to keep the prices high.

Kron3007 said:

To address the obvious security concerns, they produce opium poppies in a number of developed countries so it is obviously not insurmountable.

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What? The security concerns around that opium poppy production is a huge deal. They funnel it into all sorts of countries and it's a primary export for some of these countries - not legally to medical companies either. Find a friend in the military who was stationed at a base near the poppy fields in Iraq and ask him what he thinks about the security concerns.

Kron3007 said:

It stores well enough that it could easily be produced as a field crop.

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It stores well enough so it can grow in an open field? Meaning they could store it all winter and only grow it in the summer?

Kron3007 said:

The only reason to ban outdoor production is to keep the prices high.

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Bugs, theft, security, quality assurance, reliability, etc are all major concerns. This statement is very short-sighted.
The entire process they've developed focuses on tracking every gram that's produced and producing laboratory quality medicine (yes, I know this isn't work out well so far).

They're letting them grow it in a greenhouse. They're not going to let them grow "illegal" drugs in an open field.

Oddish.. I don't mean this in a nasty way but you seem young and some of your ideals are wishful thinking at best.
Im not so sure the MMAR is going to fade away at all myself.
It can't.
Like the LP's,The DG's and the Compassion clubs. They're all a here to stay it seems. For a good long while anyway.

[QUOTE="

But yes, it does all boil down to the fact that good product is not available right now from an LP.
If an LP could supply good product at a fair price (as many of the wannabes want to), the business model works and the patients get a semi-affordable source of medicine.
(News Flash: Not everyone wants to grow this at home)[/QUOTE]
There in lies the problem. That is one huge "IF". So far we haven't seen any LP with consistent, reliable, quality medicine at a fair price. When that happens, the business model may work. Unfortunately with the regulations and red tape currently in the way, and the SCoC history of supporting mmj patients, the mmpr grower is destined for failure before they start. The only option is to push for legalization and have the recreational market as a customer base, imo.

gb123 said:

Oddish.. I don't mean this in a nasty way but you seem young and some of your ideals are wishful thinking at best.

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Fair enough.

VIANARCHRIS said:

That is one huge "IF". So far we haven't seen any LP with consistent, reliable, quality medicine at a fair price. When that happens, the business model may work. Unfortunately with the regulations and red tape currently in the way, and the SCoC history of supporting mmj patients, the mmpr grower is destined for failure before they start. The only option is to push for legalization and have the recreational market as a customer base, imo.

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For now, yes. This continues to be the primary problem.

I hope they legalize it for "all" oddish and I hope you're around to witness it!!

As do I. For now, I don't treat it all that different. I purchase from where I can get the best product, I consume it in the same places I would normally/historically consume alcohol and I carry it around the same way I would alcohol as well.

Legalization would only change my ability to smoke it in public, which I wouldn't ever do anyways.

Legalization would also help the dispraporanite numbers of poor and middle class who were targeted by law enforcement com paired to there rich upper class counter parts!

oddish said:

What? The security concerns around that opium poppy production is a huge deal. They funnel it into all sorts of countries and it's a primary export for some of these countries - not legally to medical companies either. Find a friend in the military who was stationed at a base near the poppy fields in Iraq and ask him what he thinks about the security concerns.


It stores well enough so it can grow in an open field? Meaning they could store it all winter and only grow it in the summer?


Bugs, theft, security, quality assurance, reliability, etc are all major concerns. This statement is very short-sighted.
The entire process they've developed focuses on tracking every gram that's produced and producing laboratory quality medicine (yes, I know this isn't work out well so far).

They're letting them grow it in a greenhouse. They're not going to let them grow "illegal" drugs in an open field.

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I am speaking of the legal production of opium, not the illegal fields in the middle east. It is produced in France, Japan, the UK, and Australia legally for pharmaceutical purposes. If they can do this, why couldn't we have outdoor fields.

Yes, you can grow one crop per year and sell it year round. Freezers are quite miraculous.

Bugs: Same problems indoors and in the greenhouse. In fact, many are harder to control indoors.

Theft/security: Build a fence. They grow it for research in Mississippi outdoors. It can be done.

QA: It would have the same QA requirements. Indoor production has the same concerns with mold, etc. Most medicinal plants are cultivated outside and have the same QA without issue. As we have discussed, maybe not all producers follow the rules on this, but I know of a few that do.

Reliability: I dont see the problem. We produce wheat once a year and have a reliable supply...

As for tracking every gram, I dont see the difference between a room full of plants and a field full of plants. You can put security cameras, fences, etc. outside just as easily as inside. The difference is that the sun is free.

Trying to treat Cannabis as a pharmaceutical is to ignore the inherent difference; it is a plant, not a synthetic single molecule. There are other countries that prescribe medicinal plants (ie. St. John's Wort in Germany) that can serve as a model and Canada has NHP regulations already in place (in fact, much of the MMPR is pretty much cut and pasted from them). Obviously it needs QA and standardization, but at the end of the day it is a plant. No one in their right mind would ever consider growing other crops at a commercial scale, including medicinal plants, under HID lighting in an enclosed facility because it dosnt really make much sense. The only reason it made sense for Cannabis is because it is illegal and the price is artificially inflated.

I get it, but I think greenhouses solve for most of that.
Fields is a stretch. And I say that coming from an area that was once the number one tobacco producer in the area, growing up with tobacco farmers and knowing what went into it on that front as well.

Can't believe I actually liked a post in this thread. But...if it makes it more affordable for patients, I'm all for that.

We grow s high cbd strain
Indoors and our friends grow it outdoors. The indoor had a much higher trichome count bevsuse of the controlled environment light etc...more standardized indoor. I agree that most l.p. weed is and will be schwagg...that in the end will be what makes ir brakes them. ANYONE can grow weed , not everyone can grow quality product...most good growers can grow good product on a small scale, few will be able to grow good quality standardized product. That in my opinion woll be where lips make it or go bankrupt...huge inventories of swagg

legalizing it would take way to much MONEY out of everyone pockets at this point.
Once everyone figures out where this is going, lines will continue to be drawn along the way to slow it down.
There's just to much stupid money to be made first,,,,
So make it while you can as no one is going to wait....

If you become an LP you hit the jackpot twice:

1. Now while you're the only legal producers
2. Again when legalization occurs and you're already up and running

The only downside is the current LPs suck at growing, so legalization won't help them that much

VIANARCHRIS said:

Hey Andrew: Your "this thread is for MMPR Grow op: Small Scale, not your BS" line is a little out of place on a cannabis patients forum. Search around the net for an 'LP Wannabe" forum if you don't like the comments here. You sound like you're a bit bitter you weren't smart enough to get a mmar grow license. A newbie coming on here with a profanity laced post attacking two respected posters is not going to be made to feel welcome, we prefer dealing with adults.

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He ran away like chicken little. Probably doing something filthy things out back of tweed

oddish said:

I get it, but I think greenhouses solve for most of that.
Fields is a stretch. And I say that coming from an area that was once the number one tobacco producer in the area, growing up with tobacco farmers and knowing what went into it on that front as well.

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Greenhouses are a step in that direction, but are still much more expensive than outside..