R.Raider
Well-Known Member
Got me checking in multiple times a day waiting for this. When are you gonna end the suspense brother? lol.
MMPR Grow op: Small Scale
- Thread starter maximum
- Start date
maximum
Active Member
Sorry. Yea Ive been working with this gentleman out in Ontario. I even flew out there twice. He has his property on offer but looks like he is trying to back out after realizing people employed in certain municipal jobs will be aware that his property is being used for cannabis cultivation. He doesnt want to be known as someone involved in this business. So this is unraveling. Maybe not. Really hope not. Ive been holding off the update until I got it resolved. I did put a business plan together too so Ill be posting that for everyone to copy and modify to make it their own.
Shawns
Active Member
when looking in to properties make sure they are zoned for what you want and if not make sure you'll be able to change the zoning appropriate for your needs this is one thing some people over look with the new regulations you wont be able to just set up a grow op wherever you want it has to be zoned accordingly
R.Raider
Well-Known Member
I consider this to be my first step after finding a property of interest. No point of looking any further into anything if you can't get proper zoning.
Hope everything works out!
I still have a question in terms of the testing procedures. Since it looks like only producer and dealers could test, how much money do you really have to sink in to get all the machine to test for THC, CBD, Bacterial and etc? Don't you needed something like close to 100k for GC / HPLC MS to just test THC and CBD? Then there is other cost for the supporting equipments and equipments for the bacterial test?
Is there Canadian lab that could legally do the testing and if not what is the alternative?
Is there Canadian lab that could legally do the testing and if not what is the alternative?
molemandan
Active Member
I've found two labs that have given me official quotes. One for close to $2500 a batch and the other 3500. 1000 of that alone for pesticide residue testing for the latter.
Do they have controlled substance licenses? HC requires this info, so if not they are out. The labs I contacted were not able to do it. We plan to setup a lab, and think that it can be done for around 200k if you are resourceful.
Adamjasar
Member
I'm looking to start something like this in Ontairo as well, but alas you need the coin to do so, I was working on a business plan as well the last couple of days to hopefully propose to a bank for a loan, if their is anyone interested in Ontario is starting up a small grow op please email me or reply to me on this thread, I might be able to secure acerage near bowmanville for it being somewhere in the family, but unfortunately that would be solely left to outdoors for there is no warehouse there... one would have to be constructed, which i also have the labour and construction crew in the family to do.
anyways email me or reply
adamjasar@live.com
anyways email me or reply
adamjasar@live.com
I don't think bank are willing to loan any money towards this..
The perception of marijuana is still bad, and previously in "Dragon's Den" everyone backed out of a legal grow op. Even Kevin (money hungry investor) still won't touch it, because he worry investor will have bad perception of him and his mutual funds. It will be the same for the bank. So if you don't have the coin it will not fly.
The overall 2 biggest issue in terms of finance is Real Estate and testing.
In terms of the real estate, it is sort of every producer for themselves.
However as of the testing, maybe everyone in this forum that have interested in creating a grow op should pool their money together to create a small lab somewhere and do all the testing.. Since testing is only limited, this should be manageable. Of course it is a separate business so that needed proper setup and discussion..
The perception of marijuana is still bad, and previously in "Dragon's Den" everyone backed out of a legal grow op. Even Kevin (money hungry investor) still won't touch it, because he worry investor will have bad perception of him and his mutual funds. It will be the same for the bank. So if you don't have the coin it will not fly.
The overall 2 biggest issue in terms of finance is Real Estate and testing.
In terms of the real estate, it is sort of every producer for themselves.
However as of the testing, maybe everyone in this forum that have interested in creating a grow op should pool their money together to create a small lab somewhere and do all the testing.. Since testing is only limited, this should be manageable. Of course it is a separate business so that needed proper setup and discussion..
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
It's pretty difficult (next to impossible) to get a start up loan from a bank period, never mind a loan for a medical cannabis grow op. What you would need to do is build what you can afford, then if the business is profitable, draft a business plan and then apply for a loan.
I dont know about you, but I have never heard of a compassion club go out of business (unless it was raided by the man, fuck even then they still operate..take TCC for instance). So I would say its pretty safe to assume an MMPR grow op will be profitable. Charge a fair price for a quality product and all those that buy from the clubs will come your way.
As to testing, I'm not concerned. There will be other LP's and labs that could provide the service. The only question for me is, how much is the service gonna cost?
I dont know about you, but I have never heard of a compassion club go out of business (unless it was raided by the man, fuck even then they still operate..take TCC for instance). So I would say its pretty safe to assume an MMPR grow op will be profitable. Charge a fair price for a quality product and all those that buy from the clubs will come your way.
As to testing, I'm not concerned. There will be other LP's and labs that could provide the service. The only question for me is, how much is the service gonna cost?
Everyone knows those compassion club and some grower sell them illegally..
Anyway didn't someone already say that Lab will do it for like $2k per test.. and if you needed testing for every batch.. that is stupid pricing..
So the only hope now is another LP willing to do the testing for less.
Anyway didn't someone already say that Lab will do it for like $2k per test.. and if you needed testing for every batch.. that is stupid pricing..
So the only hope now is another LP willing to do the testing for less.
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
$2k is stupid..I contacted Hedron (Dr. Paul Hornby) a while back. I cant remember what he quoted me but it was a few hundred bucks to test for THC, CBD, CBN. Very reasonable anyways and they told me they would do better on the price if I was sending samples on a regular basis.
R.Raider
Well-Known Member
I actually really like this idea. Count me in if this turns out to be our best option.
It would be a few hundred for the cannabanoids, but you also need to test for various microbes, aflatoxins, and heavy metals. Given that all tests need to be conducted in triplicate (or more), $2000 would be reasonable and I wouldn't expect to see much lower. That being said $2000 per batch isn't that big an onus given the value of the crop, it just means that you need each crop to be large enough to support it. For what it's worth, most of these tests are required to sell any herbal product in Canada so these regulations are not putting any unusual requirements on this crop in particular.
This whole thing is such a B****... , I understand the need for safety, but how is this different in terms of production compare to Tomato and Veg? I don't believe farmers needed to test much of anything after harvesting. Also the need of license for lab to even test this is just another pain in the ass and limit our why of outsourcing.
I know that GC/MS is possibility the best to do the THC and CBD test.
However could someone educate us, what is needed for the other test such as the United States Pharmacopoeia "Total aerobic microbial count, Total yeast and mould count, Bile Tolerant Gram Negative bacteria, E. coli, Salmonella, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Staphylococcus aureus, Clostridia and Candida albicans"
Also the equipment to test for pesticide if needed
Equipment is just one thing.. getting to know how to do it is another issue.
I know that GC/MS is possibility the best to do the THC and CBD test.
However could someone educate us, what is needed for the other test such as the United States Pharmacopoeia "Total aerobic microbial count, Total yeast and mould count, Bile Tolerant Gram Negative bacteria, E. coli, Salmonella, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Staphylococcus aureus, Clostridia and Candida albicans"
Also the equipment to test for pesticide if needed
Equipment is just one thing.. getting to know how to do it is another issue.
Hey Maximum.. how big of a place you looking at anyway?
As I mentioned, these tests are pretty standard for all herbal medicine sold in Canada, so the requirements are not that unusual. Unlike tomatoes and such, this product (and most herbals) needs to be dried and processed; if done improperly you can indeed have microbial growth. Some microbes produce extremely toxic compounds (ie. aflatoxin) and can result in serious health issues. This is even more critical if you are selling to medical patients with compromised immune systems, or are otherwise more sensitive to these toxins. Regarding the food system, several crops such as grains or peanuts are constantly screened for various potential problems such as aflatoxin, ergot, etc. I understand why you feel the way you do, but in HCs defense, they are just bringing the regulations in line with other medicinal plant products and there is logic behind these tests.
Regarding what is needed for the tests, the various microbe counts are done using standard plate count techniques. These tests basically entail the tissue to be ground up in a buffer. The solution is then used to generate a series of dilutions which are spread on specific media that select for the microbe(s) of interest. After a specified time of incubation, the number of colony forming units are counted and the total microbe load is back calculated based on the dilutions. These tests require a standard microbiology lab setup including a flow bench, autoclave, incubator, and general lab equipment.
Aflatoxin B is measured by HPLC in the Pharmacopoeias, but I plan on using an ELISA based assay instead. The advantage of the ELISA kit is that it does not tie up the HPLC, and more importantly comes with the standards pre-mixed. Aflatoxins are the most carcinogenic natural compounds known, so we want to avoid handling them as much as possible. The downside is that it requires a microplate reader, which is an additional piece of equipment. However, HPLC of aflatoxins requires post-column derivitization and a different detector than the other tests, so the cost of the microplate reader will likely be offset anyway.
Heavy metals are most often measured using atomic absorption from an acid digestion of the tissue. These are relatively fast, but it involved concentrated acid and such.
Cannabinoids can be measured by GC or HPLC. However, the heating involved in GC analysis alters the chemistry of some of the compounds, so HPLC gives a more accurate analysis of what is in there. That being said, GC can give the required information.
As for getting to know how to do the tests, I think you will need a dedicated lab person with the proper training. I suspect that for most smaller producers, outsourcing would be the way to go. We are planning on offering these tests once we are up and running, but that does very little for people currently applying....