Molasses and bro science

I've read on every single AACT post here, other forums, nature forums, companies and everything between that "Molasses" goes in teas...

From research and talks with a Soil Biologist I've started to think that Molasses was created through "bro science", and doesnt have its place in teas for the "common grower".

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If you do some of your own reading online about compost tea brewing one of the biggest things you will run across is the recommendation to use blackstrap molasses as the microbial food in the tea. This used to be widely accepted as a great way of brewing tea. The issue is that without a firm understanding of soil biology and what microbes look like under a microscope people actually brew up anaerobic teas the majority of the time with blackstrap molasses. This is why that happens even with an air pump -- molasses is a simple sugar which feeds bacterial populations very quickly basically as junk food. As the bacterial populations grow they take over the entire tea and use up all the oxygen, this causes the tea to become anaerobic as soon as the ppm (parts per million) of dissolved oxygen drop below 8 (6ppm is the critical point). There are plenty of bacteria all over this planet and we really don’t need to brew up heavy bacterial teas, rather we want to brew up complex teas that have a huge variety of life in them, not only bacteria but also fungi, protozoa and nematodes. When you only feed simple sugars to the microbiology in the tea brewing process the bacteria will out multiply all the other good guys and take over the entire tea. We instead feed complex foods to the tea so the fungi, protozoa and nematodes have a chance to grow and multiply. If you really want to use molasses in your brewing it is highly advisable to also get yourself a microscope so you can monitor the tea and make sure you use it before it goes anaerobic. As that is not practical for most home gardeners your best bet is to follow our simple recipes for wonderful results.

I'd like to start a thread to exchange ideas about how it is or isn't a good additive in teas. Just teas molasses serves a purpose for sure in other ways...but I'm aiming at teas here thanks again! Positive thoughts and ideas only please, don't want an argument just want a positive exchange of ideas!

A recent watch of an Alberta Gardening video brought up some pretty interesting points.

Mainly, that the woman that did all the research on AACT (whose research heavily influenced Teaming With Microbes), says DO NOT make AACT's unless you are a certified microbiologist.

When you make an AACT you are cultivating bacteria. Unless you are using a microscope and can accurately identify beneficial vs harmful bacteria, you don't know what kind of bacteria you are cultivating. You could be multiplying deadly bacteria that starts the next plague for all you know.

The Alberta video does some good side by sides and debunks some other compost tea myths as well.

Basically top dressing with more compost provides bacterial life and nutrients just as well if not better. While making aerated teas might kill off all mankind lol.

Rasta Roy said:

A recent watch of an Alberta Gardening video brought up some pretty interesting points.

Mainly, that the woman that did all the research on AACT (whose research heavily influenced Teaming With Microbes), says DO NOT make AACT's unless you are a certified microbiologist.

When you make an AACT you are cultivating bacteria. Unless you are using a microscope and can accurately identify beneficial vs harmful bacteria, you don't know what kind of bacteria you are cultivating. You could be multiplying deadly bacteria that starts the next plague for all you know.

The Alberta video does some good side by sides and debunks some other compost tea myths as well.

Basically top dressing with more compost provides bacterial life and nutrients just as well if not better. While making aerated teas might kill off all mankind lol.

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While I think it would be hard for me to develop the next plague with alfalfa, seaweed, and worm castings...i see your point! Haha I def will take that into consideration! Good point, it is possible for things to go bad quickly, but I think without sugars it can't get to insane

I always thought the entire concept of compost tea was bro science. I've read two differing opinions. One says it doesn't do what's expected and can't be proven. The other says it does.

I'm not too concerned about black strap. It's a feel good additive for a DIY liquid based organic fertilizer. The NPK analysis of black strap is something like 1-5-2. I can't remember the exact numbers except for the nitrogen part. Its more useful then isn't. Its cheap and gives a funky smelling tea a rich surgery smell.

Hpo777 said:

While I think it would be hard for me to develop the next plague with alfalfa, seaweed, and worm castings...i see your point! Haha I def will take that into consideration! Good point, it is possible for things to go bad quickly, but I think without sugars it can't get to insane

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Lol yeah I wouldn't worry too much about it lol...but if you were using some compost that wasn't properly composted, or something tainted that kelp or alfalfa meal while it was being processed or bagged...it is very easy for things to get out of hand in the bacterial world!

oh,goddamn....looks like its time to start a worm farm and revamp the compost bin..i love making teas but the clean up is time consuming.top dressing is easy as hell.
any teas you do see being useful @Rasta Roy ?

natureboygrower said:

oh,goddamn....looks like its time to start a worm farm and revamp the compost bin..i love making teas but the clean up is time consuming.top dressing is easy as hell.
any teas you do see being useful @Rasta Roy ?

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I use
1/4cup worm castings
1tsp kelp meal and every other watering I sub for Alf meal same ratio
1.5mil seaweed
For my veg tea amazing results!

Per 1 gal

SouthCross said:

I always thought the entire concept of compost tea was bro science. I've read two differing opinions. One says it doesn't do what's expected and can't be proven. The other says it does.

I'm not too concerned about black strap. It's a feel good additive for a DIY liquid based organic fertilizer. The NPK analysis of black strap is something like 1-5-2. I can't remember the exact numbers except for the nitrogen part. Its more useful then isn't. Its cheap and gives a funky smelling tea a rich surgery smell.

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Oh as a soil applicator it's amazing! Lots of other uses are good too! But in teas im sticking to "keep it out less you got dat MBA" lol

Elaine Ingram has a PhD in soil biology and she says teas absolutely work! She also keeps her teas incredibly simple and purely for the microbes not really the plant. I think that's another thing people get wrong...teas are kind of meant for micro life not so much the plant(for the microbes and then yes microbes turn to the plant but long goal should only be microbes), teas shouldn't be used as a sole nutrient source, it's why I use them along side my ROLS. I might try top dressing this next grow, and only apply a casting tea for microbial life.

Hpo777 said:

Oh as a soil applicator it's amazing! Lots of other uses are good too! But in teas im sticking to "keep it out less you got dat MBA" lol

Elaine Ingram has a PhD in soil biology and she says teas absolutely work! She also keeps her teas incredibly simple and purely for the microbes not really the plant. I think that's another thing people get wrong...teas are kind of meant for micro life not so much the plant(for the microbes and then yes microbes turn to the plant but long goal should only be microbes), teas shouldn't be used as a sole nutrient source, it's why I use them along side my ROLS. I might try top dressing this next grow, and only apply a casting tea for microbial life.

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Elaine Ingram is the one that says you shouldn't make aerated compost teas unless you are using a microscope and are educated in and able to identify strains of bacteria friend!

natureboygrower said:

oh,goddamn....looks like its time to start a worm farm and revamp the compost bin..i love making teas but the clean up is time consuming.top dressing is easy as hell.
any teas you do see being useful @Rasta Roy ?

Click to expand...

Aerated teas, not so much anymore. I have abandoned them and my grows still perform the same. Fertilizer teas, yes, especially if you're growing in containers. Alfalfa, kelp, and guanos make great fertilizer teas, and only need to be steeped or mixed into the water for a 24 hour period. But you can also top dress with these as well!

Hpo777 said:

Oh as a soil applicator it's amazing! Lots of other uses are good too! But in teas im sticking to "keep it out less you got dat MBA" lol

Elaine Ingram has a PhD in soil biology and she says teas absolutely work! She also keeps her teas incredibly simple and purely for the microbes not really the plant. I think that's another thing people get wrong...teas are kind of meant for micro life not so much the plant(for the microbes and then yes microbes turn to the plant but long goal should only be microbes), teas shouldn't be used as a sole nutrient source, it's why I use them along side my ROLS. I might try top dressing this next grow, and only apply a casting tea for microbial life.

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There's not that much difference between top dressing and tea. The dressing layer is seeped down by water. Tea is filter by the first few inches of the soil. The excess water and already dissolved nutrients helps get a deeper/better seepage.

As for the Doctor's clinical opinion. She needs to get it published after showing proof her way is the best. Until then, her thesis is interesting none the less. It's not enough to justify stopping a very old agriculture additive.

Hpo777 said:

Oh as a soil applicator it's amazing! Lots of other uses are good too! But in teas im sticking to "keep it out less you got dat MBA" lol

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Rasta Roy said:

Elaine Ingram is the one that says you shouldn't make aerated compost teas unless you are using a microscope and are educated in and able to identify strains of bacteria friend!

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I'm not saying she didnt...i was referring to if they work or not! If you have the tools and knowledge they absolutely do. I was just referring to working or not working.

SouthCross said:

There's not that much difference between top dressing and tea. The dressing layer is seeped down by water. Tea is filter by the first few inches of the soil. The excess water and already dissolved nutrients helps get a deeper/better seepage.

As for the Doctor's clinical opinion. She needs to get it published after showing proof her way is the best. Until then, her thesis is interesting none the less. It's not enough to justify stopping a very old agriculture additive.

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In terms of "health and safety" there's a huge difference between top dressing and teas...teas you are creating an environment inside a jug specifically made to make bacteria etc. Top dressing is safer by all ways. Without all the oxygen you create with the air stone and pump, you have much less bacteria. Thus much less of a chance to brew E coli or other dangerous things.

Rasta Roy said:

Aerated teas, not so much anymore. I have abandoned them and my grows still perform the same. Fertilizer teas, yes, especially if you're growing in containers. Alfalfa, kelp, and guanos make great fertilizer teas, and only need to be steeped or mixed into the water for a 24 hour period. But you can also top dress with these as well!

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Yea I'm gonna try top dressing this go round. See if I can spot a difference, top dressing I assume you need to be a bit more "preemptive" right? Considering nutrients aren't going to be ready and avaible once applied? Or am I wrong there?

Once again I'm no expert nor do I claim to be! I love being wrong! It means I learned something.

Hpo777 said:

Yea I'm gonna try top dressing this go round. See if I can spot a difference, top dressing I assume you need to be a bit more "preemptive" right? Considering nutrients aren't going to be ready and avaible once applied? Or am I wrong there?

Once again I'm no expert nor do I claim to be! I love being wrong! It means I learned something.

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It depends on what you're using! Any compost or composted materials will give you nutrients pretty much right away. Finely ground plant based meals will give you love within a few days to a week. Same for most finely ground organic meals. Shell based meals I would give yourself a few weeks to a couple months depending on how finely ground they are.

But compost, composted materials, guanos, and other manures will give you the quickest release of nutrients.

I think it works to help kick start microbes

Yodaweed said:

I think it works to help kick start microbes

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Yea I'm gonna do it next feed(7 days from now) probably apply 1 time every 3 weeks depending on how they react!

Annnnnd, I just watched every single video of the Alberta Urban Gardener... hahahah

MJCanada said:

Annnnnd, I just watched every single video of the Alberta Urban Gardener... hahahah

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He does a solid job with his videos!