legallyflying
Well-Known Member
yes. but then again, the microbes help the plant uptake nutrients. So directly help uptake? no. Make more nutrients available for uptake? Yes.
Molasses in ebb & flow?
- Thread starter Youngling
- Start date
leftreartire
Active Member
were those side by sides in a dwc or soil? i dont believe molasses useful in a hydro system. mollasses helps the bateria in soil reproduce and make the minerials and trace nutes more accessible to the plant. in a dwc we are making the nutes very acessible to the plant already
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. I have heard that increasing sugars will help with the stale hydro taste.. How? Not sure. Does anyone know if hydroton can support microbes in an ebb/flood table? I mean, there is a substrate..kind of.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
this is a good read... http://www.integralhydro.com/beneficialmicrobes.html
For beneficial bacteria to survive in a hydroponic environment they will need ideal environmental conditions. Most hydroponic nutrients lack organic carbon sources for beneficial bacteria to survive. They can metabolise humic and fulvic extracts but one of the best sources of food for beneficial bacteria is molasses. Molasses typically contains Total Digestable Nutrients (TDN) in excess of 60%, as well as containing a number of the major elements and trace elements required by bacteria, molasses is very high (50%+) in sugars. The sugars contained in molasses are an ideal source of carbon for heterotrophs. Cobalt and molybdenum, which are not usually listed in the typical analysis of molasses, will still be found in small traces. Another property of molasses, due to the high percentage of sugars, is its’ sticking ability when used in foliar sprays. Molasses, along with a wetting agent, increases the coverage and surface holding, optimising foliar nutrition.
For beneficial bacteria to survive in a hydroponic environment they will need ideal environmental conditions. Most hydroponic nutrients lack organic carbon sources for beneficial bacteria to survive. They can metabolise humic and fulvic extracts but one of the best sources of food for beneficial bacteria is molasses. Molasses typically contains Total Digestable Nutrients (TDN) in excess of 60%, as well as containing a number of the major elements and trace elements required by bacteria, molasses is very high (50%+) in sugars. The sugars contained in molasses are an ideal source of carbon for heterotrophs. Cobalt and molybdenum, which are not usually listed in the typical analysis of molasses, will still be found in small traces. Another property of molasses, due to the high percentage of sugars, is its’ sticking ability when used in foliar sprays. Molasses, along with a wetting agent, increases the coverage and surface holding, optimising foliar nutrition.
Youngling
Active Member
So wait. Don't do anything extra then? Skip the carb and the molasses? But I want my plant to look like the picture I saw when I bought it damn it! More frost and more weight. I guess I have to wait for the wight. Le sigh
Homebrewer I saw on someone elses thead you said koolbloom dry is with it's weight in gold. Should I be using this instead of bloombastic or in addition? I'm scoping out my next grow
1 bubblelicious SCROG grow 2x2x5 grow area.
Homebrewer I saw on someone elses thead you said koolbloom dry is with it's weight in gold. Should I be using this instead of bloombastic or in addition? I'm scoping out my next grow
1 bubblelicious SCROG grow 2x2x5 grow area.
HookdOnChronics
Well-Known Member
^^^^^ Smart guy here! for real! TRUTH! ^^^^^
^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
No, add the molasses but I would also add some kind of biotic like rhizotonic. If you have been flushing with h2o2, I would forget the sugars as you have likely killed all the micros already.
It breaks down like this.... biologicals help with the uptake of water and nutirents, especially during times of stress. They do allot of other things as well like ward of harmful bacteria and various fungus. They DO this by processing nutrients and converting them into a form that is usable by the plant. This is VERY important in soil. In hydro, all those expensive nutrients are ALREADY in a usable form. These microbes need something to eat....ergo molasses.
That said, it never hurts to have those organisms present on your plant as they do help and have been scientifically proven to help plants thrive. I have been foliar feeding my clones with rhizotonic and they are doing great. the more microbes present on the roots, the more ABILITY to uptake nutrients they have.
My understanding:
Molasses with microbes = good
Molasses by itself = does nothing.
Like most topics, someone already addressed this.. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/103323-brix-levels-its-relevance-cannabis.html Big kudos to lulapug for starting an EXCELLENT discussion among peeps that are quite knowledgeable about plant physiology. And in the end, that is what this whole game is about.
It breaks down like this.... biologicals help with the uptake of water and nutirents, especially during times of stress. They do allot of other things as well like ward of harmful bacteria and various fungus. They DO this by processing nutrients and converting them into a form that is usable by the plant. This is VERY important in soil. In hydro, all those expensive nutrients are ALREADY in a usable form. These microbes need something to eat....ergo molasses.
That said, it never hurts to have those organisms present on your plant as they do help and have been scientifically proven to help plants thrive. I have been foliar feeding my clones with rhizotonic and they are doing great. the more microbes present on the roots, the more ABILITY to uptake nutrients they have.
My understanding:
Molasses with microbes = good
Molasses by itself = does nothing.
Like most topics, someone already addressed this.. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/103323-brix-levels-its-relevance-cannabis.html Big kudos to lulapug for starting an EXCELLENT discussion among peeps that are quite knowledgeable about plant physiology. And in the end, that is what this whole game is about.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
As was already stated, molasses is desirable in soil grows because it increases the bacteria and fungi activity. It is necessary for organic material to be broken down and processed by microbes before it can be used by the plant, so the more active the the microlife, the more nutrients become available. Once organic material is broken down by microorganisms, it becomes chemical fertilizer.
In hydro we aim to control and streamline all aspects of the growing process. This is why we ditch the soil and the microlife and just use chemical fertilizer to begin with. In order for your molasses to be any benefit what so ever, you will need to add beneficial microbes. You can add microbes to your water, and they will eat the molasses and turn it into fertilizer, but synthetic bud sweeteners make this completely unnecessary, and is essentially the same thing.
In hydro we aim to control and streamline all aspects of the growing process. This is why we ditch the soil and the microlife and just use chemical fertilizer to begin with. In order for your molasses to be any benefit what so ever, you will need to add beneficial microbes. You can add microbes to your water, and they will eat the molasses and turn it into fertilizer, but synthetic bud sweeteners make this completely unnecessary, and is essentially the same thing.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
KoolBloom dry worked very well with my GH 3-part feeding schedule, but the performance of KoolBloom dry with your nutes could be different. I'm currently testing dynaGro and given how complete the DG line is, adding koolbloom would only serve to burn my plants. Make any sense? Personally, I wouldn't be shopping around for additives, I'd be looking for more compete base nutes so I'm not complicating a fairly easy process.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Neccesary? No. Beneficial. It seems there is debate on that subject but mycoriza does increase nutrient uptake capacity and ward off harmfull bacteria. I add it, others don't but then again I have a source for specific bacteria species that I know are actually alive. The stuff on the shelf at the hydro store... Not so sure.
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
If you are using synthetic fertilizer in hydro then there is only one reason to add beneficial microbes. That reason is to displace, starve and attack harmful microbes. Some people find it necessary in hydro, particularly DWC, because of a root slime problem.
If you have no root problems and no organics in your water, then you have no need for microorganisms.
How to breed beneficial microbes cheap
leftreartire
Active Member
do you honestly like gh or it is just what you started with and dont know any better? well not that you dont know just that you comfortable with it. i myself have used gh before and i wasnt the happiest grower. i switched to cutting edge because my local shop had it half price and what the hell i'll save money and i have never been happier. its like 25 bucks a gallon and i have had great yeilds. my only problem now is my local store stopped carrying it and it a pain in the ass to get. if you have acess to it give it a test run. let me know how you make out
mistaphuck
Well-Known Member
yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Look at the NPK of your nutes and compare them to that of GH's 3-part. They copied GH just like AN and Humboldt. I'm not sure how you're getting different results with the same formula.
420God
Well-Known Member
Here's a good read I came across-
http://boards.cannabis.com/organic-growing/81681-molasses-sweet-organic-goodness.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/organic-growing/81681-molasses-sweet-organic-goodness.html
bird mcbride
Well-Known Member
If you were all using a lava rock flood system you would'nt have to worry about a plugged up pump. In my hydro system I use ashes and powdered limestone to balance my water. Mollasses would definitely NOT bung up this system; BUT I would have to see some real proof that this mollasses stuff is actually going to be beneficial. But hey, I'd use it in my purified water to change the taste of my pot after I cropped it!
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
So I think we pretty well established that the primary role of sugars is to feed micro organisms as to my knowledge, cannabis as a species has a limited ability to uptake sugars ( although I haven't seen any studies on it). So this begs the question, if your blindly following a manufacturers nutrition schedule that does not include biotics, isn't bud candy and similar sources of sugars annalagous to pouring money down the drain?
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Not specifically cannabis, plants in general have a limited ability to pull up sugars from the soil. This information came from a horticulturalist professor from the local university. He has a doctorate degree in horticulture and 25 years of research in his field of crop science. Those are the guys that can slice though the total bullshit we all hear at our local hydro store and on cannabis forums.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
True that Rico. The only plants that really uptake sugars from the soil that I know are sugar beets and grapefruit. Sooo is the sugar hydro stuff bunk then?