Molasses NPK ratio?

Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
homebrewer said:
...you put too much carbohydrate into the soil, you will stimulate bacteria and fungal growth so much that the soil becomes anaerobic.
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My understanding is: too much molasses will stimulate the bacterial, and not the fungal growth. And this is bad for the reason you've listed. But also that relatively higher bacterial level in media is good for N and veg, but that the fungi are more important for P/K and the flower cycle. Either way the bacteria dominate, and it is about shifting from high bacteria to more balanced bacteria/fungi in flower.
So heavy molasses in veg, and ease off in flower. Molasses, as stated previously is for feeding the bacteria, and to a much lesser directly feeding extent the roots.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nullis again." Someone help me out!
 
kether noir

kether noir

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
What the heck is your problem, really? I only ask because it seems like every time somebody makes a thread or asks a specific question about molasses, you have to say "molasses is nearly all sugar"- which couldn't be further from the truth, and then "makes no difference to the size of your buds". Quite frankly, nobody who actually knows anything about molasses and it's proper use and applications even makes such a claim- largely being a result of your taking the ignorance of first time growers out of proportion. Oh yah, and because of some half-assed 'experiment' you performed.

Regardless, sugar is a high-energy food source which in nature plants would be donating to micro-organisms along with other substances via root exudates.

So, to actually answer the OP's question: it depends on the brand but typically something like 1-0-5. Use about a tablespoon per gallon of water throughout the grow, except for the last couple weeks. Molasses is high in nutrients such as magnesium and can contribute to a harsh finished product.

Molasses is about 55% sugar. The other 45% goes like this (per 100 grams, human % DV provided for reference):
Minerals

  • Calcium ----- 205 mg --- 20%
  • Iron -------- 4.7 mg --- 26%
  • Magnesium --- 242 mg --- 61%
  • Phosphorus -- 31 mg ---- 3%
  • Potassium --- 1464 mg -- 42%
  • Sodium ------ 37 mg ---- 2%
  • Zinc -------- 0.3 mg --- 2%
  • Copper ------ 0.5 mg --- 24%
  • Manganese --- 1.5 mg --- 77%
  • Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg - 25%

Vitamins

  • Thiamin -------- > 0.0 mg -- 3%
  • Niacin ------------- 0.9 mg -- 5%
  • Vitamin B6 ------- 0.7 mg -- 34%
  • Pantothenic Acid - 0.8 mg -- 8%
  • Choline ---------- 13.3 mg - ~

Sugars (55.5 g)

  • Sucrose 29403 mg
  • Glucose 11919 mg
  • Fructose 12791 mg

How many times do I have to post this for Spanishfly to quit spreading mis-information like "molasses is just sugar"? Does anybody read my posts or is it a comprehension problem?
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Thanks for posting this +rep
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
My experience with molasses is such that I've seen temporary lockout of available N, but for this to happen I had just recently watered with compost tea that was teaming with life that would readily digest the carbon consuming all available nitrogen in the process.

Thus it is very important to understand even to much "sugar" LOL which molasses is more then just a carbohydrate it still has to potential if too much is added or if too much newly brewed organisms are added, especially to containers that are smaller in size.

All plants require sufficient supplies of macronutrients for healthy growth, and nitrogen (N) is a nutrient that is commonly in limited supply. Nitrogen deficiency in plants can occur when organic matter with high carbon content, such as sawdust, is added to soil.[1] Soil organisms use any nitrogen to break down carbon sources, making N unavailable to plants.[1] This is known as "robbing" the soil of nitrogen. All vegetables apart from nitrogen fixinglegumes are prone to this disorder - reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_deficiency

THEREFORE PLEASE TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION AS YOU USE MOLASSES

I had to rescue one plant by adding high available N back to the soil

http://organicxpert.blogspot.com/2012/09/molasses-as-organic-fertilizer-good-or.html

I hope this settles the question on properly using molasses, for it can be a good thing if used properly as with any other soil additive.

DankSwag
 
NyQuilkush318

NyQuilkush318

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
I don't know about it causing any 'lockout'. The only logical reason such a situation may occur has to do with the fact that molasses is acidic (like most nutrients), and so could lower soil pH, especially at high doses (which I wouldn't recommend). Soil needs to be properly amended to counter pH plummeting as a result of the [heavy] application of various acidic fertilizers typically applied. Most of us handle this with dolomite lime, crushed oyster or egg shells or other sources of calcium carbonate; other neutral amendments such as coco coir help, and certainly having a thriving living soil helps. Soil biota doesn't very much care for soil which is acidic and prefers to be in the neutral-alkaline range.

Nutrient burn shouldn't be a concern, but I still wouldn't recommend using copious amounts of molasses. I've heard of problems relating to it causing soil to become 'sticky', which I have yet to witness, and the potential for the molasses to attract insects-particularly ants. Again these are reasons not to use copious amounts of the stuff. You'll often find molasses or beet molasses listed as an ingredient on various liquid organic fertilizers.

As for Spanishfly, don't get me wrong; I am sure he is a perfectly capable grower and has his style tuned to exactly the way he desires. It is just that like many humans he is prone to ill-informed associations, jumping to out-of-context conclusions and being ever so slightly presumptuous. He performs this half-ass 'experiment' with molasses; presuming that the manner/purpose for which he heard some naive growers were apparently using it (for larger buds) was not only the 'proper' mechanism, but also the singular reason for its incorporation. As such, he anticipated only the results purported by the misinformed and considered no other purpose for molasses. Beyond this, he didn't even elaborate in any sufficient detail the environment these plants (which were not clones) were being grown in, whether the molasses was provided throughout the entire life of those plants or just during the last few weeks, what exactly the medium consisted of, or whatever else was provided. I seriously doubt he did any solid research on what molasses really consists of, or how it actually pertains to indoor gardening and fertilization. He really seems to think it is just 'sugar' and I wouldn't be surprised if all he is actually concerned about is allowing himself to feel some sense of superiority over everybody else because he 'proved' that molasses is "another old wives tale".

OP asked a very simple, specific question and made no claims what-so-ever. Spanishfly's response is testimony to his pompous attitude and it is ridiculous. As far as I am concerned the whole thing is just about tantamount to somebody raving about how they used CalMag and it is just another old wives tale because their buds aren't any bigger.
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am trying to raise my ph in soil/pots my soil ph was 6.4 n went down to 5.8 am going to top dress with lime how much lime to use as a top dress n do i still have to use cal/mage at 5ml a gal or just use the lime help please thinks guys
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Ny post: 10433360 said:
am trying to raise my ph in soil/pots my soil ph was 6.4 n went down to 5.8 am going to top dress with lime how much lime to use as a top dress n do i still have to use cal/mage at 5ml a gal or just use the lime help please thinks guys
Click to expand...
Depends on type of lime, calcium carbonate powder is your fastest acting souce,
Espoma GL6 garden lime is pelletized dolomitic limestone easier to use as far as
Instructions on how much to apply.

You'll have to convert for applicable application rate.. rule of thumb for powder is 2 to 3 lbs per 100 square feet. Note lime applications are meant prior to growing.
You may want to use General Organics CaMg+ liquid supplement first.

When I had a similar issue I diluted 1 to 2 teaspoons to gallon water and watered with that solution. Remember you can flush soil with heavy watering if you raise it too much

DankSwag
 
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Darrin661

Darrin661

Active Member
I've got good results from useing molasses man,to startem off put 1 tablespoon in a gallon everytime you water,then gradually move up to 2 tablespoons,it really makes the trics pop.GoodLuck
 
MrBaer

MrBaer

Active Member
Nullis said:
I don't know about it causing any 'lockout'. The only logical reason such a situation may occur has to do with the fact that molasses is acidic (like most nutrients), and so could lower soil pH, especially at high doses (which I wouldn't recommend). Soil needs to be properly amended to counter pH plummeting as a result of the [heavy] application of various acidic fertilizers typically applied. Most of us handle this with dolomite lime, crushed oyster or egg shells or other sources of calcium carbonate; other neutral amendments such as coco coir help, and certainly having a thriving living soil helps. Soil biota doesn't very much care for soil which is acidic and prefers to be in the neutral-alkaline range.

Nutrient burn shouldn't be a concern, but I still wouldn't recommend using copious amounts of molasses. I've heard of problems relating to it causing soil to become 'sticky', which I have yet to witness, and the potential for the molasses to attract insects-particularly ants. Again these are reasons not to use copious amounts of the stuff. You'll often find molasses or beet molasses listed as an ingredient on various liquid organic fertilizers.

As for Spanishfly, don't get me wrong; I am sure he is a perfectly capable grower and has his style tuned to exactly the way he desires. It is just that like many humans he is prone to ill-informed associations, jumping to out-of-context conclusions and being ever so slightly presumptuous. He performs this half-ass 'experiment' with molasses; presuming that the manner/purpose for which he heard some naive growers were apparently using it (for larger buds) was not only the 'proper' mechanism, but also the singular reason for its incorporation. As such, he anticipated only the results purported by the misinformed and considered no other purpose for molasses. Beyond this, he didn't even elaborate in any sufficient detail the environment these plants (which were not clones) were being grown in, whether the molasses was provided throughout the entire life of those plants or just during the last few weeks, what exactly the medium consisted of, or whatever else was provided. I seriously doubt he did any solid research on what molasses really consists of, or how it actually pertains to indoor gardening and fertilization. He really seems to think it is just 'sugar' and I wouldn't be surprised if all he is actually concerned about is allowing himself to feel some sense of superiority over everybody else because he 'proved' that molasses is "another old wives tale".

OP asked a very simple, specific question and made no claims what-so-ever. Spanishfly's response is testimony to his pompous attitude and it is ridiculous. As far as I am concerned the whole thing is just about tantamount to somebody raving about how they used CalMag and it is just another old wives tale because their buds aren't any bigger.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that using molasses helps in slowing the accumulation of salts which cause lockout..
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
MrBaer said:
It's my understanding that using molasses helps in slowing the accumulation of salts which cause lockout..
Click to expand...
poor man. you just responded to an old thread, so any responses will likely be minimal
for countering excess sodium, you want gypsum for that
typically most organic growers (the type that like BSM) tend to not use chelated-salt nutrients anyways
Oh, an you can't "like" anything till you get enough likes yourself (if I remember correctly)
so I gave ya two "likes" to get the ball rolling
pictures are good for likes if you have them and aren't shy
 
MrBaer

MrBaer

Active Member
greasemonkeymann said:
poor man. you just responded to an old thread, so any responses will likely be minimal
for countering excess sodium, you want gypsum for that
typically most organic growers (the type that like BSM) tend to not use chelated-salt nutrients anyways
Oh, an you can't "like" anything till you get enough likes yourself (if I remember correctly)
so I gave ya two "likes" to get the ball rolling
pictures are good for likes if you have them and aren't shy
Click to expand...
Cool, thx..All this is new to me...knowledge quest. Peace
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
MrBaer said:
Cool, thx..All this is new to me...knowledge quest. Peace
Click to expand...
all in all, this site is pretty cool, but like any internet forum or public place, there ARE assholes aplenty.
the organic area is usually mellow
the toke n talk area is only for the thick-skinned and/or bored
if you like controversy, "hid vs led", or "should I flush?" or "how much will I harvest?", those are good thread starters if you wanna make enemies or troll
personally i'm more of a pacifist so I usually just chime in when I'm bored at work, i'm not here when i'm off work.
anyways
welcome to the party
 
MrBaer

MrBaer

Active Member
greasemonkeymann said:
all in all, this site is pretty cool, but like any internet forum or public place, there ARE assholes aplenty.
the organic area is usually mellow
the toke n talk area is only for the thick-skinned and/or bored
if you like controversy, "hid vs led", or "should I flush?" or "how much will I harvest?", those are good thread starters if you wanna make enemies or troll
personally i'm more of a pacifist so I usually just chime in when I'm bored at work, i'm not here when i'm off work.
anyways
welcome to the party
Click to expand...
thx for the tips..
 
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