More light worth it?

All,

I got a couple options with my setup and I wanted to see if anyone here had an opinion on what I should do.

I have a 4x4 tent with 4X5gl pots and 2X2gl pots soil (6 total). They are under a 600W MH vegging right now for another 3-4 weeks before flip. My question is.. is it worth adding another 600W from now on to the rest of the gro?

Heat is not an issue. I actually have to run a heater during darkness cause it is pretty cold out. I have carbon filter and 6'' inline fan. I measured it out and I can fit another 600W in there no problem.

Is this overkill? 1200W in a tent seems a bit much.. is it worth doubling the power bill? Or should I be content and enjoy what I have and not be greedy?

Any opinions much appreciated.

They suggest 5k lumens per square foot for flower. You probably could go with around 7k lumens, after that it will most likely become overkill.

Don't go with lumens, go with ACTUAL wattage! 60 watts per square foot!

infdjedi said:

I have a 4x4 tent with 4X5gl pots and 2X2gl pots soil (6 total). They are under a 600W MH vegging right now for another 3-4 weeks before flip. My question is.. is it worth adding another 600W from now on to the rest of the gro?

Heat is not an issue. I actually have to run a heater during darkness cause it is pretty cold out. I have carbon filter and 6'' inline fan. I measured it out and I can fit another 600W in there no problem.

Is this overkill? 1200W in a tent seems a bit much.. is it worth doubling the power bill?

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I think 1200w in that space is bordering on overkill. Actually, honestly, it is overkill. Throw up some supplemental CFLs like 200 actual watts worth and you will be about as lit up as you can get.

1200w in a 4x4 is way overkill, imo. Even 1k is kinda overkill, imo.

I ran 600s over a 3x3 for a long time. Then one day I said fuck it.. spread it out.. Slowly I spread more.

If I was still growin' herb.. i'de prbly cover a 4.5 x 4.5 with a 600.. maybe even 5x5..

With glass under the bulb.. prbly 4x4, without glass, 5x5..

When you start running groups of 6 or more lights, that is when you can really start spacing those lights far apart w/o losing density and such.

If you are looking to improve your lighting.. look into upgrading your reflector. Not sure what you have, but, if you have a cool tube then that would be a good spot to throw some dollars at.

THAT would improve your grow.. I doubt that adding a 600w would improve much of anything.

If you are set on adding a 600.. get yourself a bigger tent... 4x6 min.. 4x8 would work better, imo.

Do to your limited height 1000 will be too much trouble but doable if you want, but learn some height control skills.

If cash is not an issue I would suggest you check out a induction light, for your tent excellent.

jed,
People often use a 1000 HPS for 4x4 E&F tables...which is just over 60 watts/sq ft so your 1200 watts is a bit overkill. Seems to me though, that it's in the flowering stage that you would want to increase lighting.

If you could figure out the way to distribute the light properly, adding a 400MH to your 600hps would be a perfect, powerful flowering program.
JD

i used a 4x4 for some time, i only ever used 600 hps, no way could i have controlled the heat of 2x600 in that size tent.
as been said already get a decent reflector, if heat isn't a issue don't use a glass hood or cool tube as these do diminish yield, this i have tried and tested.

BSD0621 said:

Don't go with lumens, go with ACTUAL wattage! 60 watts per square foot!

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Yeah I dont care much for the wattage aspect. That would mean I could use 600 watts of incandescent and get the same as 600 watts of HID.

I have a 1000 watt in my 4x4x6.5 right now and I still add 200 watts of cfls on the bottom.. 1000k isnt overkill at all, its great. I have zero heat issues, the hood is cool to the touch. If you say heat is no problem then it would prob work. Maybe add a 400w, or just do 1 1000w and use your other 600w for a veg tent.

acording to my light meter a cool hood block out +10% of the light intensity, but your also able to keep it much closer and end up providing +20% more, but sure if your temps allow it there is no need to use one, as some already said, use the money on a good reflector, if anything add a 250W MH to the HPS, specially the first and last 2-3 weeks of flowering it can make a different

Thanks for the help guys. I hear you on getting a 1000.. but I have an extra 600W just sitting around which is why I was thinking of using it. Both of my hoods are this: http://htgsupply.com/Product-The-Euro-Reflector

Would a better hood help or is that a decent one? And yea, heat is not an issue at all. My 6'' fan is turned down lowest setting and tent still barely hits 73.

infdjedi said:

Thanks for the help guys. I hear you on getting a 1000.. but I have an extra 600W just sitting around which is why I was thinking of using it. Both of my hoods are this: http://htgsupply.com/Product-The-Euro-Reflector

Would a better hood help or is that a decent one? And yea, heat is not an issue at all. My 6'' fan is turned down lowest setting and tent still barely hits 73.

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I've never used that one, but, it looks like it is short of being a high end reflector. On the other hand, it definitely looks better than a cool tube with bat wings on it.. so, not bad.

Every reflector offers a different foot print. Most of my experience is with the Hydrofarm Daystar and the Hydrotek Silver Star.

The Day star is a great reflector.. very flat foot print, high intensity, nice horizontal reach as well. Heavy, durable..

The silver star spreads the light quite a bit.. works well for limited height applications. Very light weight. Rather than a flat footprint it puts out quite an arc of intensity around the bulb.. It works well for growing trees in four corners.
..Overall, I would say the Silver Star is less efficient than the daystar. But, using the footprint for so long, it became a part of my style.

The last reflector I used a bit was Sunlight Supply Yield Master II (i think?).. it was similar to the daystar, intense lighting focused down into a nice square for the most part.

There are so many new reflectors on the market (I would assume) and I have not purchased a new one in a bit.
The ones I still have are about 10 yrs old maybe? But, they are good quality.. If I setup again, I would probably ditch the Silver Stars for some SS YM II or something new and reputable.

Also, watch out for knockoffs.. i've used some china made (TX hydro) knockoffs that were pitiful.

So, someone here prbly has more current experience to share with you. I think you prbly have room for an upgrade..

What do you think about your reflector? Hotspots? Even spread? Does it feel like lots of light is being projected into a footprint that works well with your setup, genetics, grow style, etc?

I've never taken a light meter to my reflectors before, but, I would think it could be a useful tool when sizing up what you have and what is out there.. A local grow shop might let you walk around with a meter on some displays..

There is prbly a bit of experience here on RIU.. a new thread focused on reflectors might get you some good info on quality reflectors..

If your space can handle the heat might as well use it
but i would not use it until the plants have buds maybe starting from week 3-4 of flower
they do not need lots of light until this point anyway
i have 2 x 600 on 2 plants at the moment finishing up

peace

I have come to believe the common belief that more light in the final weeks = more yields is not true. (most of the time)
I've found about the opposite. Intense lighting was more beneficial during the first 4 weeks for optimal growth to setup the stature of the plant.

I have tilted 2 600s in towards a center 600 with 4 plants under it.. ((hps) - (hps) - (hps)) plants under the center light.. The plants under the two outer lights had finished so I tilted the two outer light inward..

What I found was that the plants did not yield any more than they did with just a single light over them for the final 3 wks.. Maybe a few more grams, but, not anywhere near being a good return on investment.

The exception to that rule was with a long flowering sativa (14+ wks)..
Skundoc.. if i remember right.. you grow some sativas, so, not surprised to hear you are working with some high light levels late in flower.
I think the reason why longer sativas show returns from more light is that
these plants don't go through the wk 5/6 explosion.. they just gradually bulk.. these plants (and sativas in general) seem to yield more with more light later on.. Indica leaning hybrids though (95% of what I see on RIU)... no change. Might as well save on your elec bill and stick with the same light you used earlier in flower.

Different rooms/genetics/etc show different results... This could have been phenomena limited to my past grows.. but the results were clear.

It makes sense though.. Think about when the plant is eating up nutes... wk 2 - wk 5 on your usual hybrid.. Wk 6.7,8.. not much. If you fed the plant enough N through the first 5 wks, they barely even need fed. Unless you fed 1-3-2 through flower.. then it will always look hungry and won't be as clear to see as it was for me.. feeding more like 3-1-2.

If you run recirc hydro then testing ppm through flower would be an easy way to confirm what I said up there and/or see if this is a "truth" that applies to your grow or some bullshit that won't work for you.

I would expect to hear the argument that the plant is not consuming nutes from the nute solution late in flower because it has stored up feed from feeding through the first 5 wks.. To that I would just say that adding light didn't add yields in my garden, whatever the explanation behind it.. no dice.

The fact that the plants are not using many nutes in the final 3 wks seems right in line after seeing that doubling lighting for the final 3 wks did very little for a standard hybrid. If it isn't using nutes.. what does it need more light for?
It's one of those things that is for our mind more so than for the plant... ya know... more is better kinda thing..

althor said:

Yeah I dont care much for the wattage aspect. That would mean I could use 600 watts of incandescent and get the same as 600 watts of HID.

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Lumens have much more meaning in terms of light energy than wattage. Wattage is the measurement of how much electricity the lights plugged in will consume. When you use a light meter you are measuring the lumen output of the light. The more lumen you can get with less wattage will be beneficial to your wallet and will not effect the yield of the plant. I use T5s with the same lumen output as HID (color temperature as well) get the same yield and save ALOT of money doing so. Can you imagine the kw/hr the sun would use if it had to use electricity to transmit light to earth.?.?.?.. The use of high wattage bulbs has been a very good marketing campaign. I cant blame them though, everyone needs to make money. However, until now more wattage meant more lumen output. We now have much more energy efficient ways to get the same lumen output...

Just my 2nd post 6 year 2 cents.... take it how you will... good luck with your grow..

ScoobaSteve said:

Lumens have much more meaning in terms of light energy than wattage. Wattage is the measurement of how much electricity the lights plugged in will consume. When you use a light meter you are measuring the lumen output of the light. The more lumen you can get with less wattage will be beneficial to your wallet and will not effect the yield of the plant. I use T5s with the same lumen output as HID (color temperature as well) get the same yield and save ALOT of money doing so. Can you imagine the kw/hr the sun would use if it had to use electricity to transmit light to earth.?.?.?.. The use of high wattage bulbs has been a very good marketing campaign. I cant blame them though, everyone needs to make money. However, until now more wattage meant more lumen output. We now have much more energy efficient ways to get the same lumen output...

Just my 2nd post 6 year 2 cents.... take it how you will... good luck with your grow..

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Yep I agree. Lumens, IMO, is a more accurate way to go.

I have run a 1000 de with overdrive in a 4x4 tent...heat was managed took some playing with with large plants in there..I would add the light as long as you keep under 80!

When I started growing I had a 4x4 tent with a 600w and later upgraded to a 1000w and noticed a considerable increase in yield. It would definitely be worth it if you can keep temps down IMO.