Mushrooms?

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testtime

Well-Known Member
PlantMatter said:
What alternative would you suggest?
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Inject either spores or liquid culture into either hydrated rye grain or popcorn. Shake accordingly, and then mix with a substrate. And then case. And then fruit BIG. Really, I did a LONG description above. And then realize those FUCKING compact jars of slow growing myc in those PF jars are STILL not done.

That list of things above sounds like a difficult process as compared to PF, but really, I've been there, and it's WELL worth it.
 
lepis22

lepis22

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
I don't want to alienate you sir. I don't want to pull any sort of "well I know more than you" thing here but I am constantly concerned that new mushroom folks believe that pf tek is the best place to start. With one caveat - that PF tek is the absolute best if you can't get your hands on a pressure cooker, PF tek has growers be divorced from the way the mushroom actually grows, it is artificial and actually works in spite of, rather than because of - in other words, the mushroom is so persistant that it will grow anyway. PF tek is not encouraging the growth of the organism. Some of the readers here are probably sick of my preaching. PF tek was invented by a very shrewd guy who found that this method was the very best way for him to sell spore syringes and now, many years later (the poor genious died just a short while ago), it is still presumed that PF is the best for new comers.


Seriously, any raw grain method is as good for new people. Having to wait while the mycelium inches along in a semisolid blend of flour and vermiculite is a poor way to introduce someone to the power of this organism. Furthermore, that waiting diminishes the capability of the mycelium to be orchestrated. Some portions of the substrate are long overdue to fruit while others are still new. Rather than get a full flush from the entire mass of mycelium, the grower has to wait for the mushroom to take it's sweet time and finally push out a few fruit.

DA sprout there below is a convert to corn and he knows what he is talking about - please, to those who are new, seriously consider another way first - there is no such thing as bulk vs pf, there is only small bulk and larger bulk. There is only fruiting off of spawn (which is really what all of the grain methods are) and spawning a more massive substrate like horse manure or straw.

I don't mean to contradict you, I just don't like seeing people going astray with PF.
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But, pf tek very advantageous for some way,
1- faster way to get fruits
2- less likely to have contamination
I do not think there is any other advantageous though :S

Also, agree with you, it is not newbie friendly.
grain is pretty awesome and easy, dont need any syringe
Sometimes I just put a part of a fruit and thats it.
and, yes I know it would be better to grow mycelium on agar first to see if there is any kind of contamination :D
But, I was like "who cares" :P
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
lepis22 said:
But, pf tek very advantageous for some way,
1- faster way to get fruits
2- less likely to have contamination
I do not think there is any other advantageous though :S

Also, agree with you, it is not newbie friendly.
grain is pretty awesome and easy, dont need any syringe
Sometimes I just put a part of a fruit and thats it.
and, yes I know it would be better to grow mycelium on agar first to see if there is any kind of contamination :D
But, I was like "who cares" :P
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I don't believe that PF is faster to fruit, it actually is unmanageable as well because you can't orchestrate pinning, nor are you less likely to get contamination with PF, unless you are talking about not having a pressure cooker.

You don't "need" a syringe but it works just as well and so far as agar is concerned although I heartily encourage anyone to experiment with agar it is hardly necessary for most growing methods.
 
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DaSprout

Well-Known Member
Yeah. No more pf unless that is all that is available and you must start now. Just go to your corner store and get a bag of popcorn. I would do rye. The only thing stopping me is that I would have to go to a totally different store in a different area. Instead of going to the corner store.
 
lepis22

lepis22

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
I don't believe that PF is faster to fruit, it actually is unmanageable as well because you can't orchestrate pinning, nor are you less likely to get contamination with PF, unless you are talking about not having a pressure cooker.

You don't "need" a syringe but it works just as well and so far as agar is concerned although I heartily encourage anyone to experiment with agar it is hardly necessary for most growing methods.
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If you make a ratio for harvest and waiting time, then probably you are right. However, that casing layer incubation makes me sick, I dont know why :D waiting and waiting and waiting.................. Damn
 
ctwalrus

ctwalrus

Active Member
canndo said:
yet another reason not to use the PF Tek.
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booooooooooo

your growth is fine.. once it gets about to 1/3 shake the shit out of them...
then when you get fully colonized you can use 1 jar to inoculate 4 bags

1 bag is good for 4 tubs...

so in the end youll have 4 tubs full with the same quality cubes
 
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DaSprout

Well-Known Member
lepis22 said:
If you make a ratio for harvest and waiting time, then probably you are right. However, that casing layer incubation makes me sick, I dont know why :D waiting and waiting and waiting.................. Damn
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You just let the bulk sub fully run prior to casing. Just let it re moisten it and settle for a few more days in darken. The put to fruit. Works better or just as well as without a casing. Just from my own experience.
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
if you do some reading about shrooms as i have recently you would learn that compost and straws and fibers are the BEST substrate but the hardest to work with. out of all the stuff mentioned here RYE is regarded as the best with WBS and POPCORN competing for second. the reason i chose popcorn after listening to much advise and reading is because it is A) simple B) easier to get optimum mycelium growth due to the more stable moisture content and C) can inoculate 10 jars with one jar.

PF tek is fast but after seeing and comparing results vs cost vs effectiveness grains are the way to go by far.
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
ctwalrus said:
dont run a casing layer they are for noobs... straight coir
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once again do some reading casing is not for noobs in fact quite the opposite a pro will always case after incubation before fruiting timing it perfectly with full colonization of the bulk substrate for an even pinset and optimal fruiting.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
ctwalrus said:
dont run a casing layer they are for noobs... straight coir
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It you want optimum value, you want to case,if you want to play like the big boys play, you case, if you want to orchestrate huge flushes, case, otherwise, don't.


Someone show me pictures of uncased yields that match cased yields recently posted.
 
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PlantMatter

Member
When you mention casing how is this done?
Could vermiculite be used to case or another substrate. I've read things about casing, but I'm still a bit lost.

You'd mentioned popcorn before how would you do this?

Another thing could when the jars I have now finish colonizing could I spread the cakes over a layer of vermiculite or something to have a type of "mono-bulk" setup?
 
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testtime

Well-Known Member
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
testtime said:
On the other hand, RR says it doesn't make a difference.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9469463#9469463

I think it depends on which substrain you are running. If you have an easy pinner like Golden Teacher, then a casing might just get in the way.
But if you have a later pinner subject to overlay like PE, then a casing layer serves you well.
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It always makes a difference, those who contend it does not have never managed a truely heavy set of flushes.
 
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testtime

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
It always makes a difference, those who contend it does not have never managed a truely heavy set of flushes.
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Oooo. Flat statement followed by an "I've got more experience than you" (generic, not to me, but still).

C'mon canndo. Smart guy like you should know that there is no logic in that statement, especially based on your tagline.

  • "Argue for your opinion because it is true, not because it is your opinion."
    ​

RR doesn't have the experience? WTF?

Note: I AGREE with you based on some random logic points, but allow for exceptions. You don't, or at least don't seem to, which sets up the conflict.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
testtime said:
Oooo. Flat statement followed by an "I've got more experience than you" (generic, not to me, but still).

C'mon canndo. Smart guy like you should know that there is no logic in that statement, especially based on your tagline.

  • "Argue for your opinion because it is true, not because it is your opinion."
    ​

RR doesn't have the experience? WTF?

Note: I AGREE with you based on some random logic points, but allow for exceptions. You don't, or at least don't seem to, which sets up the conflict.
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I have made my case for casing any number of times here, and I've shown some of the results of that reasoning. I suppose that it is possible that one could garner truely heavy yields from a non-cased substrate but the particulars and the experts (stamets, not me) hold otherwise. RR and I disagree, that is not to indicate that he has no experience. If we talk about incidence of contamination, expense, extended time to flush and other considerations, RR may show that they are even - if one can keep the uncased substrate yielding long enough but the point is always to get the best first and second flush you possibly can.

The first and second flush usually yield about 75 percent of all the yield you will ever get - this is espeically true in oysters but, of course they are not cased, being a primary wood lover.

That being the case, the more thorough the first flush the more likely one will get a maxiumum total yield. Extending the growing cycle on to flushes 3 or 4 or 5, something that most often is necessary with an uncased substrate might drive the yield up but it is a tough road to follow consistantly.


https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/566059-why-you-case.html
 
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PlantMatter

Member
Okay so I've ordered about 5 new Spore Syringes of varying Strains.

I read that you can use a "grow bag" supposedly it i s already sterilized, etc all you have to do is inject the Spores, and then wait for the mycelium.
I figured I'd try this way, and ordered 6 grow bags.

Also I heard somewhere I believe you can use the grow bags to case? How would I do this I've read that tek, but like I explained I've read many on casing, but still a bit stumped. Thanks All.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
PlantMatter said:
Okay so I've ordered about 5 new Spore Syringes of varying Strains.

I read that you can use a "grow bag" supposedly it i s already sterilized, etc all you have to do is inject the Spores, and then wait for the mycelium.
I figured I'd try this way, and ordered 6 grow bags.

Also I heard somewhere I believe you can use the grow bags to case? How would I do this I've read that tek, but like I explained I've read many on casing, but still a bit stumped. Thanks All.
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Find a tub that is roughly the same size as your bag. When your bag is fully colonized but not knitted, put the bag in the tub and cut off the top of the bag, then spead your casing on the grain inside.
 
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PlantMatter

Member
canndo said:
Find a tub that is roughly the same size as your bag. When your bag is fully colonized but not knitted, put the bag in the tub and cut off the top of the bag, then spead your casing on the grain inside.
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Thanks! It will be exactly a month tomorrow and still the jars are not fully colonized maybe 40-50% at most on like 3 of the 5 and there is one that isn't showing signs I think it is a dud.
the other 2 just showed signs of mycelium about a week to 5 days ago.

Is it normal for colonization to take so long? I read it should only take 2 weeks to a month at most.
 
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