My CFL Grow.

Greetings. Here are some pics from my first grow. I've got 10 26w soft white CFLs, four on top and three on each side. My side lighting is a power strip ziptied to a thick piece of cardboard covered in some left over visqueen I had. I'm going to redo the dome with another power strip light strip and 6 6500k bulbs in the next few days. The grow room is 2.5'x3.5'x5'.

My girls are, left to right, Blue Dream, White Widow, and Santa Berry. They're well rooted so I'm going to transplant them into 5g buckets, with three gallons of perlite and vermiculite (75/25), on Saturday. My nutes are Humbolt Oneness and Super Thrive B1, with a water PH of about 5.5. The yellow leaves are from, I believe, nute lockup because they were pretty dry when I got them (topped plant clones). I'm going to give them a week in the buckets, take a few clones of each, and then flower them.

Question about the CFL color. If you can veg and flower with an HPS why not 2700k CFLs?

edit:
There's a fan on the left, just out of the pictures, blowing across the plants. I'll be adding some computer fans for intake/exhaust and some of those nifty wire pencil cup carbon scrubbers from the DIY section.

Very nice!

You can definitely flower with 2700k CFLs. I think 6500k is best for vegging. Long live the CFL!

Thank you, sir...or ma'am, as the case may be.

Hey Mr White,

Welcome to RIU. I am assuming this is your first indoor grow. One of your plants looks like a pure sativa by the way.

To awnser your question, yes you can veg & flower under 2700k, however expect longer leggier plants with popcorn buds. I veg and flower under mostly 6500k and as a result I get short (about 2.5 ft) plants with a couple gigantic colas (check my old threads). If I had it my way I would veg under 6500k and flower under 24-2700k, that way I have bushy plants with many big buds.

I would get all cardboard out! Not only due to fire hazard, but also it will wilt, bend, and eventually tear as it is exposed to the humid hot environment. Your actually growing hydroponic since your not using any soil which means your plants will need regular fert-ing. And I would recommend you work on getting your H20 Ph to 6. I would say buy more lights (HIGHEST ACTUAL WATTAGE AVAILIABLE, NOT EQUIVELANT), and you should be fine. A cheaper alternative to the powerstrip/ rigged light thingy ma-bob is to go to HD or Lowes, buy a bathroom light fixture fo $10, its safer, easier, and cheaper.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted. +rep on the nice tent....

BlessAmerica

Thank you very much.

I'm going to be redoing all of the lighting in time. I want to do a pvc idea I saw in the DIY section for my side lighting. I might go with a three light bathroom fixture for the top lighting. That would get the lights further apart. Then I can use the power strip lights for cloning and vegging when I get another little space setup. On the panels, I've got the garden twine going through two layers of duct tape on each corner. I'm more concered about the twine breaking than ripping out. Humidity is around 35-40% and temps 70-85.

And thanks for the props on the tent. It was my first actual build project from design to completion.

Alrighty. I just got my girlies transplanted into 5g buckets tonight and they're sleeping peacefully.

I used a 2-1 mix of perlite (16qts. of MG with an npk of 4-1-6 and 12qts. of non-nuted) and vermiculite. I watered them with 1/2 tsp. to a quart of the B1 and let them soak per the instructions on the bottle. Then I watered the substrate with a 1/4 strength mix of the B1 (1/2 tsp. to a gallon) until it was draining. Water ph was about 6 (I don't have a digi meter yet). I dug their holes and carefully transplanted one by one, gently but firmly pushing the new medium into place. Then I gave each a cup of nutes with more B1 on top of where the root ball was. The last time I looked their temp was 80f and humidity was 51%.

I figure my total nutes are 4-1-6 from the perlite, 5-9-4 from the Oneness, and 1-1-1 from the B1 for a total of 10-11-11. They won't need water for a few days but when I do water them again, should I just use straight water for a while or is this fine for a nute ratio? They're preflowering but I'm going to let them veg for at least another week or two.

Another question, should I LST these girls or top them? I want to get some clones from them either way, but I'd like to get as big a yeild as my newbieness can manage.

Whether to top or LST is entirely at the grower's discretion. They both have similar results when done right, creating a shorter and bushier plant with more colas. Which one is better is an unresolved debate. LST will cause less stress to the plant (go figure, its called low stress training), but requires strings and places to attach them, along with monitoring and maintenance of them. Toping is a one-and-done thing, but can slow the plant a bit while it recovers from having its head cut off. Again, up to you man.

In terms of nutrients, there are a few things to consider. First and definitely foremost, plants in a setting with the wrong Ph will drastically reduce its abilities to absorb nutrients. Ph testers are cheap and easy to use, and are often the difference between off-colored, droopy plants, and sticky fat buds. Second, perlite and vermiculite are mostly devoid of nutrients, so just make sure that while you are vegging the plants to have a 1-1-1 ratio in the ferts youre adding. Always remember, when dealing with fertilizers, less is more. Start lite and work you way up. If you do it right you wont need to flush at all until a week or two before harvest.

one more thing-- I just looked at you pic from your last post and your CFLs are way too far away from the plants. CFLs are extremely weak lights and should be kept 1-3" from the foliage at all times. Doing this will create short and bushy plants, which is necessary with CFLs as the light isn't strong enough to function on tall plants since it disperses too fast. Any farther will cause stretching and small, loose buds. CFLs are fine lights to use and are very capable of producing wonderful plants, but they need to be as close a possible without actually touching the plants.

Happy growing!

Thanks for the replies, man.

I have the General Hydroponics pH Control Kit. I just meant that the pH is as close to 6 as I can get it by matching the color of the test water to a chart.

I had the lights up like that to get them out of my way while transplanting and so they wouldn't have as direct light right after transplant. I'm bringing the top light back down, putting the other side panel back on, and grouping them in the center of the room, probably later today after the lights go on.

So I've been thinking...over bong hits of some random heady green. Prepare for deep stoner thoughts.

My ultimate goal with growing is to have either six planters or just go dwc with some of the ideas from the DIY section and get 1g per watt (about 3/4lbs.) per monthly harvest. I have 8.75sq.ft. of floor space and 40w of light per would be a total of 350w (about 3/4lbs. @ 1g/w). That's 14 (rounded up) 26w bulbs for 364w and 2800 lumens per sq.ft.. I don't really want to go over 400w total.

How would I best split that up between the top and sides? I'm thinking of doing this https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/117244-diy-cfl-fixture.html then putting Y connectors in each socket for two bulbs per on the top. What would be the most effecient way to split the lights up between top and sides? If we assume six growing positions, which would be the same with a dwc setup, and put a socket above each that's either six or 12 lights on the top. Neither really seems ideal. I could run the lights lengthwise and put 4 or 5 sockets in for eight or 10 lights with Y's, but then there wouldn't be a light directly over the plants.

you better get a fan blowing in there or ur plant is going to die... leafs look unhappy , heat strees , and you need fresh air for optimun grow.

Please read the original post again, including the edit.

I am assuming the plants look sad because they needed watering? You said they were dry when you got them. If they don't start looking happy within 2 hours of watering I would suggest troubleshooting in the sick plants section of this site. Looks to me like they just need some water tho. Greenlanter does bring up a good point with the heat. Just another thing to keep an eye on. Cant remember if you said you have a thermo/humidity reader or not. CFLs dont produce much heat, but still can be an issue. Try to keep em between 70 and 80 degrees and around 50% humidity. Uncovered buckets of water and cheap dehumidifiers are easy ways to control humidity.

In terms of your goal of 1 gram/watt, you are going to have to do everything flawlessly if you want to use CFLs and get those results. Don't get me wrong, it is possible, but that standard is largely based on using the more efficient MH or HPS lights. If you are ok with using 400 watts, I would suggest seriously considering investing in a 400 watt HO light. However, with such a limited space perpetual harvests will be challenging unless you use another room for mothers/vegging, or are ok with the 12/12 from seed method (I haven't tried it, but I will soon and after much investigation am convinced it works fine). If you choose to stick with CFLs, i would probably venture to say if you set the 6 plants in a 2x3 grid and placed the 12 CFLs in a 3x4 grid over the plants it would work fine. You would need to move each plant a lot, though, given that they will be different sizes and need to be really close to the lights (basically moving the plants to the lights rather than lights to the plants, due to the imminent height difference in different aged plants). I wish I had some picture to show you, but I dont. Just imagine each plant will have 3 lights surrounding it with this design. This will require many boxes/books/magazines to set the pots on to get them just the right distance from the lights, and some fun finagling with the light fixture (designing the grow room is half the fun!). A MH or HPS light will save you a lot of grief and make that 1 gram/watt goal much more consistent.

I just thought of one thing regarding a previous question. You may want to avoid any training when possible and just use a very brief veg period (I'd say around 2 weeks tops). CFLs will struggle to penetrate a bushy plant's fan leaves and get light to some possible bud spots, which will force you to trim it and stress it out even more. Plants don't mind when they flower, so long as they are mature when they do. If you are using clones, then they are mature as soon as they have an established roots system, and will double to triple in height during the flowering phase. Tall and overly-bushy plants may have more surface space to grow buds, but with CFLs the light will disperse too much to allow for all that space to be used. Better to have denser buds than a lot of fluffy popcorn buds. Hope this helps, and keep us posted on what you decide to do.

Thanks for the reply, killer.

I think the plants had a few issues when I got them. One of them literally had dry soil, so I believe it was nute lockup because of yellowing leaves and some of the tips turned brown then curled upward. After I got the watering taken care of, with a few mild nutes, the root systems took off and two of them got root bound pretty quickly, the two that look the saddest. Right now I believe they're in transplant shock from being put into a different growing medium. Does this sound like I'm on the right track?

I do have a digital temp/hygro that's attached to one of the buckets and I check it frequently...probably a little too often. I have a fan on the plants but had to pay rent before I could get a few computer fans for intake and exhaust. So right now I just open the door and put another fan blowing cooler outside air on the plants. The fans are next, then better cfl fixtures. Would you be able to make me up a crude diagram of the light design you're talking about? I did want to go with a 400w hps, but funds demanded this route for the time being. I'll be getting a nice chunk of change at tax time and will buy one then.

I do plan on making a small cloning/vegging room in the near future, and moving most of my cfls there, for perpetual harvesting. I wanted to veg these ladies a bit longer to let their roots explore the new medium a little before flowering. I see what you're saying about the training and light penetration. I'll save that for when I get better lighting.

Ok, so my blue dream is looking rather sad and overall yellowish. Is this transplant shock, nute deficiency, or what? If nute deficient should I foliar feed? Or should I just kick back and roast one?

Gadzooks. My newbieness is showing.

Oh, the speckles are bits of perlite and vermiculite. I've had reptiles for about 12 years so I know how to look for mites. I did kill a few small winged insects a few days ago but haven't seen any since. I'm fairly positive it's not going to be pests.

edit:
My B1 is Thrive Alive green (http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=16). I think I've just seen the name Super Thrive on the forum a few too many times.

Ok well figuring out what is wrong with th plant is probably the hardest part of growing . Did the plant get worse right after transplanting? If so it could be from shock, especially with the different medium and all. For the blue dream, one of the problems youre facing is it is hard to tell whether there is too much or too little of the nutrient. The yellowing leaves look like a lack of nitrogen, and it doesn't look like there is any strange coloring so it may (and hopefully) be limited to that, but burnt roots from too many nutes will show the same thing as not enough. I guess since you have just recently gotten the plant it is going to be impossible to tell if there is a nutrient burn or not, but you have transplanted into a nutrient free medium. I am assuming with the transplant you gave it a really good flush, which should have washed out the excess salts that would have built up from over ferting. I guess the rest of it depends on you funding as there are a few options. If the plants were over fertilized before you got them, the root system is likely to be burnt and it could be in pretty bad condition. This would lead to a nitrogen deficiency first, as that's what the plant needs most during vegging. If you want to invest in folar nutes, it may give the plant what it needs to survive and establish a healthy root system. There are also root stimulants that may help, but I would try to avoid spending money on these when dealing with this set up as it will probably be unnecessary.

Transplant shock shouldn't last for more than a few days to a week. I am going to tentatively suggest using more nutes to see if the plants seem any happier, but as a safeguard do a nute, nute, flush schedule. The crucial part here is keeping the plants alive while making a diagnosis. Otherwise you could try the folar option with strait water into the medium. I think using folar, if done correctly, will be a safer way as then it doesn't matter as much what condition the roots are in and its just water going into the pot. But, maybe try to use the nute-nute-flush for a bit to see if there is any positive response. then you wont need to buy any new fertilizers.

Here is a very crude drawing i made on paint as to what i was talking about with the plants. It is important for the plants to be surrounded by the lights. There are many ways to set up this type of grid. I would suggest takilng at least 2 rips out of a bong, then going to Home Depot with a notebook and explore the area. Then again, this kind of stuff is one of my favorite hi-tivities.
Green circles are plants, black circles and triangles are lights, yellow arrows are the direction the light is coming out of the hood. Red box is something to place young plants on.

Awesome, man. Thank very much for taking the time. That looks essentially like an expanded version of the fixture in Buds for Less, which makes total sense. Well darn it all, I think I'll need at least four stations to make this worthwhile. I have a few nice looking schwag seeds from a good bag that I was going to plant just for the hell of it. Maybe I'll try the 12/12 in a 16oz. cup method for those...it's not like the seeds are hard to come by, hahaha.

The roots of the Dream looked really white and thick when I pulled the rootball out of the little planter it was in, but there was a lot of them at the bottom which is why I thought it might have been getting rootbound. It did take its downward turn right after the transplant. The Thrive Alive B1 is a root stimulant and both it and the Oneness I'm using have foliar mix directions. I think I'll mix the Oneness as a foliar and lightly water with half strength B1. Not really knowing what soil or nutes they had I was definitely concerned about overdoing it and might have underdone it instead. I looked at the guides in the Plant Problems forum and thought it might be N deficiency also, but I'm a newb and didn't want to overlove them. The Widow's medium was still fairly moist when I checked on them before lights out but the other two were fairly dry on top while still feeling heavy to lift. I was able to go knuckle deep into the Santa Berry's medium before I hit moisture (inuendos ahoy!)...that's about 4". Also, should I drop the ph down from 6 to around 5.5 since this is essentially passive hydro?

Hey, if you try the 12/12 cup version that would be tite-- nuthin like some mini plants in the corners! Definitely dont cut back on the water. You should be able to feel moisture in the top 2" of medium; 4" means its time to water. Try following directions for the foliar spray, but one of the books i have says not to use foliar more that 1 every 10 days because it is so easy to over do and causes burns on the leaves. Make sure to spray the under sides of the leaves more than the tops. I am also becoming more more convinced that the problem is due to lack of nutrients rather than too many. Try starting them on a nute-nute-flush with the recommended dosage of fertilizer on the bottle. My guess is they are starving at this point and this way you will figure it out really fast whether it is working or not. One thing to take into consideration is indicas tend to need more nutes than sativas. it looks like the one is more sativa dominant so watch for leaves curling. this means there are too much fertilizer, but I dont think that will happen. If it were me I would wait on the foliar and give it a week with the recommended dosage of fertilizer and see how they are doing after that. They probably are just angry at being root bound, transplanted, and put into a different medium. They probably just need light, CO2, and food =)

Don't lower the Ph any. 6 is in the middle of recommended range for hydro grows and I personally dont think it should go too much lower than that, but again, that is a personal choice. 6 is great either way and if it is there it isn't the problem.

As for the lights, I am interested in seeing what you decide to do

Thank you, yet again.

I gave those two three cups each of a 2/3 strength B1 mixture this morning and the Dream is looking right perky on top already. Santa Berry still looks sad, probably because she's hongreh. It looks like I'll be watering them every 2-3 days at this point because of how well this medium drains, so I'll start nutes on the next watering. I also lowered the height of my fan because I had it blowing slightly down at them instead of across, which might have dried out the top layer of medium too quickly. Ah, the beauty of a learning curve, hahaha. I guess I should've paid more attention to how my mom took care of the houseplants when I was a kid.

I have two ideas so far for the lights, both based on the pvc idea. One is three strips of four lights going width wise, the center one pointing down and the outside two on an approximate 45* angle. Or, I could do four strips of three going depth wise and use 45* elbow couplers. Both are flexible in their own way. With the former I could go up or down the sides as much as needed and with the latter I could adjust at each section individually. Hmm. Me thinks 'tis time for some cardboard mockups.

Oh noes! I checked the runoff pH of the Santa Berry and it was 7-7.5. I'm not sure why or how because I haven't used any water higher than 6. How can I bring this down in a soilless medium? I think this is why it and possibly the Dream aren't doing so well. The Widow has shown growth just from this morning. I'll check the runoff from both of them next time I water.