My first grow - indoor cfl soil grow . ! Need help !!!

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****** UPDATE : 2/28 PICS POSTED (page 2) *******
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Hey everyone,

This is my first grow. I am growing 6 plants in 2'x2'x5.5' grow tent using 10 27W 5000K CFLs for veg'ing 6 clones (2 LA OG x Purple Kush, Pre 98' Bubba, Lavender, Querkle, and an Apollo 11).

I originally wanted to go as cheap of a grow as possible so i went loosely off SeeMoreBuds book, "Buds For Less," but now I've come to a point where i want to get serious and a good harvest from the 2-3 months i'm going to put into these dudes.

At this point 4 of the clones that were planted 4 days ago have been continually developed red/deep purple stems as well as slow yellowing of the leaves (as if it the green is draining out of them). I planted these 4 clones in Miracle Gro Moisture Control, which i thought for some reason came as a pH of 5.1 and i watered each plant with 1.5L of 7.3pH water to try to get the ph lower to 6.0-6.4. The soil's pH was actually around 7-7.5 and so i was concerned about nute lock due to pH.

After i noticed the continuing purple-ing of the stems i used an emergency mixture of lemon juice and water to try to lower the ph of the soil which worked temporarily but did not seem to affect the plants' health. This was day 3.

Today i bought some General Hydro pH Down solution which i diluted into a gallon of water that i watered among the 6 plants to try to lower the soil pH again. The solution dropped the pH initially but after an hour it was climbing back up again towards 7 again.

I'm getting really worried about the plants and i don't want this batch to die. I'm aware that the plants should somewhat be able to absorb nutrients with a soil pH of 7 but it seems like they are nute-locked atm (purple stems, yellowing of leaves). I also suspect a zinc deficiency but this too maybe because of the pH.

I'm wondering if i should keep trying to fix the pH of the soil and continue this soil grow or ditch the soil altogether and transplant the plants to a hydro system.

If i go hydro, i'm on a TIGHT budget. I'm debating between the Bubbleponics 6 starter kit, the Aeroponics RainForest 36, or a DWC kit. I heard that Bubbleponics kits have issues with light penetrating through the lid, causing problems in the water with algae, etc. Which of these would you guys recommend?

If you have any suggestions for either my soil situation or about the hydro systems PLEAAASE feel free to post.

I can't believe i've been losing SLEEP stressing about my PLANTS !!! MY BABIES !!!!!!!!!!

oh and i will post some pictures as soon as i find a digicam .

dont transplant they prob wont take. soil to hydro NO hydro to soil YES. ... hard to say without pics but it sounds like a combo of things but mainly overwatering.... possibly the soil your using(miracle grow) is killing em... just a guess without pics.. also 7 is ok for soil... you dont really want to go below 6.8... so seems to me that your ph is not the prob... also itll take a few tries to get the ph right you must get a base going then the ph will settle on its own.... good lucko P.S. hydro isnt that much more expensive... i built a aeroponic bucket for less than 9 dollars... pump is a little more but well worth it. the hard part is getting used to it.. which really isnt all that hard at all in fact its pretty damn simple... take a look three weeks veg

musicislife,

those plants you veg'd are fatties ! nice grow . damn . ok well if i cant transplant them to hydro i might be stuck trying to "soil" this one out.

you mind sharing some info on how you made your aeroponic bucket ? i'm just worried about trying to do a DIY hydro system and messing it up.

As far as the yellowing and purple stems, that could be caused by overwatering ? maybe the watering threw the ph off of the soil ? i forgot to mention i did water the plants after i planted them into the pots. about a liter per each 3gallon pot. the water was VERY alkaline. im thinking of re-pot'ing the plants and dumping the old soil. I'm using Miracle Gro Organic Choice (10-5-5) Potting Mix for 2 of my other clones (Apollo 11 and Querkle) where as the other 4 are in Mirale Gro Moisture Control (that got watered with super alkaline tap water).

I don't know why but the purple stems are bothering me so much. If i stay with soil, what should i do? pics coming real soon

I m new to clones but i heard that they will yellow a bit cause the new roots are taking nitrogen from the plant, an its kinda a good thing, an u can fertilize em once the roots are ready (or foliar feed).

I have always heard that the purple stems are caused by lower temps it effects some of em this way. Not a bad thing at all i believe.

It dosent sound to bad to me..........

highasfukk said:

musicislife,

those plants you veg'd are fatties ! nice grow . damn . ok well if i cant transplant them to hydro i might be stuck trying to "soil" this one out.

you mind sharing some info on how you made your aeroponic bucket ? i'm just worried about trying to do a DIY hydro system and messing it up.

As far as the yellowing and purple stems, that could be caused by overwatering ? maybe the watering threw the ph off of the soil ? i forgot to mention i did water the plants after i planted them into the pots. about a liter per each 3gallon pot. the water was VERY alkaline. im thinking of re-pot'ing the plants and dumping the old soil. I'm using Miracle Gro Organic Choice (10-5-5) Potting Mix for 2 of my other clones (Apollo 11 and Querkle) where as the other 4 are in Mirale Gro Moisture Control (that got watered with super alkaline tap water).

I don't know why but the purple stems are bothering me so much. If i stay with soil, what should i do? pics coming real soon

Click to expand...

purple stems are NORMAL dont waste energy thinking about them. mine had purple stems and still do but as they get older and the stalk swells the'll slowly turn green and purp. i dont know much about soil, but to give you my 2 cents i would, replace the soil with soil with no additives at all (or a vermerculite or perlite type mix.) and hand water or drip my nutes every other feed i suppose.. seeing how the soil will have a tendency to keep any nutes in it for extended periods of time, you would just have to experiment, but the more control you have over your environment the better, soil
(perlite/vermurculite) with no nutes and you could manipulate a bit better what the plants are getting. would be a "type" of hydro. IMO.
Best thing to do? read. I tend to overthink things and it actually makes me phisically tired so dont worry about the little things. Is this your first grow? if it is do what i do. EXPECT them to die. that way you wont be so dissapointed and you wont get over zealous with them. dont get me wrong try (and try hard) but most of all learn.

musicislfe said:

purple stems are NORMAL dont waste energy thinking about them. mine had purple stems and still do but as they get older and the stalk swells the'll slowly turn green and purp. i dont know much about soil, but to give you my 2 cents i would, replace the soil with soil with no additives at all (or a vermerculite or perlite type mix.) and hand water or drip my nutes every other feed i suppose.. seeing how the soil will have a tendency to keep any nutes in it for extended periods of time, you would just have to experiment, but the more control you have over your environment the better, soil
(perlite/vermurculite) with no nutes and you could manipulate a bit better what the plants are getting. would be a "type" of hydro. IMO.
Best thing to do? read. I tend to overthink things and it actually makes me phisically tired so dont worry about the little things. Is this your first grow? if it is do what i do. EXPECT them to die. that way you wont be so dissapointed and you wont get over zealous with them. dont get me wrong try (and try hard) but most of all learn.

Click to expand...

http://www.astrogrow.com/ .do a search online and especially youtube to see up close examples of aeroponics systems. next time im doing a pvc system. much easier, no leaks. <PS> any leak is too much. NO LEAKS!! also the misters are better off up high tthan down low.. i added a simple drip system cause my buckets were also the "nursery" and they did not have root yet so i can basically root and veg in the same buckets. just my personal design. cycle timer 20 minutes on/ 15 minutes off 24hours. for veg anyways i havent st6arted flowering yet but it seems to me that i could even go 15 on 30 off... or more... we'll just have to see. oh and i got my timers at home depot $4.00 dollars each. i bout two timers, 20 settings each and pluged them together and managed to get 40 total settings which cover me be able to do 20 on and 15 off.


ALSO nothing should ever yellow. yellow usually equals too much water even clones root a hell of alot faster when you slightly tease them with water. slightly. keep em moist not wet.

my first grow was in MGMC, had exactly the same issue you're describing
started to see gradual yellowing from the inner lower leaves
some growers seem to have had luck with this soil, i didn't
thought it might be magnesium deficiency, but epsom salts didn't help
never did figure it out, though i did read up on it after
best i can tell, MGMC needs water that is not too acidic
my next grow was in MG Organic Garden soil which went great, so i had no grudge on MG soils
also, be wary of too much watering, MGMC will burn plants just like the MG potting soil

growone said:

my first grow was in MGMC, had exactly the same issue you're describing
started to see gradual yellowing from the inner lower leaves
some growers seem to have had luck with this soil, i didn't
thought it might be magnesium deficiency, but epsom salts didn't help
never did figure it out, though i did read up on it after
best i can tell, MGMC needs water that is not too acidic
my next grow was in MG Organic Garden soil which went great, so i had no grudge on MG soils
also, be wary of too much watering, MGMC will burn plants just like the MG potting soil

Click to expand...

The clones have been veg'ing for about 5 days now and the reason i'm so concerned with the purple stems is because 2 of the plants initially had decently green stems that have purple'd since i planted them in the pots and watered them. Also i worry about the purpling because i've only read about purpling in more mature plants. I just want to be extra diligent about addressing any unhealthy signs as the plants are so young. I'm guessing i may have watered them too much when i initially planted them ? should i transplant the MGMC clones into the other soil i have "MG Organic Choice Potting Mix (10-5-5)" or go buy some damn Foxfarm soil and replant ALL 6 plants into FoxFarm? what is your watering schedule like ? i've done some A LOT of reading about growing and the process . Also , does soil have a bigger risk of getting pest problems ? i've seen what looks like a fruit fly, cruisin around in my grow tent . 2 of the clones were dipped in something Neem-based for powedery mildew and spidermite prevention btw.

HERE ARE SOME MORE SPECS ABOUT THE CURRENT GROW CONDITIONS:
Indoor 2'x2'x5.5' Tent Grow
Lighting: 10 27W 5000k CFLs for VEG/ 10 27W 2700k CFLs and 1 150W CFL 2700k
Temp Range: 73-84F (max/min including when it gets cooler at night)
Humidity Range: 35-45%
Ventilation: 4in Inline Fan drawing exhaust out the roof of the tent with side mesh vents on the bottom open. I plan on getting an exhaust fan+carbon filter later for when i need odor control.
Soil: Miracle Gro Moisture Control (21-7-14) at about a 80/20 ratio with Perlite and Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix (10-5-5) w/ about 30% Perlite/70% Soil.



YES EVERYONE THIS IS MY FIRST GROW !!!
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP SO FAR !!!


I am gonna take some pictures later today and i will post those as soon as i can.

Thanks again.

highasfukk said:

The clones have been veg'ing for about 5 days now and the reason i'm so concerned with the purple stems is because 2 of the plants initially had decently green stems that have purple'd since i planted them in the pots and watered them. I'm guessing i may have watered them too much when i initially planted them ? should i transplant the MGMC clones into the other soil i have "MG Organic Choice Potting Mix (10-5-5)" or go buy some damn Foxfarm soil and replant ALL 6 plants into FoxFarm? what is your watering schedule like ? i've done some A LOT of reading about growing and the process . Also , does soil have a bigger risk of getting pest problems ? i think i saw a fruit fly in my grow tent . 2 of the clones were dipped in something Neem-based for powedery mildew and spidermite prevention.

YES EVERYONE THIS IS MY FIRST GROW !!!
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP SO FAR !!!

I am gonna take some pictures later today and i will post those as soon as i can.

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

that is a pretty sudden change for stem color, but that is a common color for many strains
from my 'mgmc post mortem' reading, mgmc is quite picky with water ph
there is a grower here, think his name is filthyfink, he had some good info on mgmc
can' recall what my watering schedule was, that was over a year ago
but if you're not letting the soil dry out on the top, that's probably too much water
i haven't used the mg organic potting, i think it's less acidic than the other mg soils
transplanting is a stressful process, for you and the plants
maybe try transplanting one to start with if you choose that route

growone said:

that is a pretty sudden change for stem color, but that is a common color for many strains
from my 'mgmc post mortem' reading, mgmc is quite picky with water ph
there is a grower here, think his name is filthyfink, he had some good info on mgmc
can' recall what my watering schedule was, that was over a year ago
but if you're not letting the soil dry out on the top, that's probably too much water
i haven't used the mg organic potting, i think it's less acidic than the other mg soils
transplanting is a stressful process, for you and the plants
maybe try transplanting one to start with if you choose that route

Click to expand...

I actually had 4 clones in the MCMG and i transplanted one of the clones into the Organic Choice Potting Mix when i did the other two because this particular clone looked like it was on the verge of death. I snipped a longer branch that was on the lower part of the stem that was really originally purple and since the transplant and prune that plant has actually perked up a lot and looks like it is growing towards the CFLs that are near it. I have the CFLS no more than 3.5" from the plants too, btw. What to do..

actually the name was FilthyFletch, he's the MGMC master around here, if memory serves

highasfukk said:

I actually had 4 clones in the MCMG and i transplanted one of the clones into the Organic Choice Potting Mix when i did the other two because this particular clone looked like it was on the verge of death. I snipped a longer branch that was on the lower part of the stem that was really originally purple and since the transplant and prune that plant has actually perked up a lot and looks like it is growing towards the CFLs that are near it. I have the CFLS no more than 3.5" from the plants too, btw. What to do..

Click to expand...

you may have solved your own problem
if you're seeing improvement, keep doing what you're doing
3.5 inches should be good, some like them a bit closer, but that still should do OK

PICTURES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are some pics.

THE PLANTS


Apollo 11 (you can see the purple stems and yellowing leaves)



Lavender (top view)


Lavender (you can see how dark the purple stems have become, from what i remember they were originally light green)



Querkle (stems were somewhat striped red/purple when i bought it)


LA OG x PURP KUSH (purple stems again)

well, that lavender does not look good, stems don't look too good at all
your Apollo 11 looks like the problem i had, yellowing from the inside of the leaf
getting out the mgmc may be the best thing to do

N deficiency from the yellow leaves and P deficiency from the purple stems. Get those plants some food.

Oh, just saw you were using MG. Sorry...

ok . so i'm definitely gonna transplant the MGMC plants . Anyone have any steps that i absolutely need to take when transplanting these plants ? i'm not entirely positive on the difference between flushing a plant and flushing soil and what exactly both constitutes. What i want to do is very carefully uncover the rockwool that the clone came in and transfer the rooted rockwool to the new soil . should i flush the rockwool cube with some ph balanced water ? if so how much and at what ph?

Also. My soil pH tester is saying the Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Soil is at a pH of 7. i originally flushed 3 8" pots full of the soil with roughly a gallon of water with a pH of about 5.9-7.0 (to try to get the pH lower to about 6.5-ish, i read 6.0-6.5 is optimal pH levels for soil). is this step necessary or should i just transplant the clones straight into the soil ? should i give it some water afterwards as well?

Also . i'm debating on if i should just go buy some FoxFarm Ocean Forest Soil and do nutes separately... OR go hydro.

my 1 transplant was by root ball wash, put the pot into a bigger bucket of water, gently wash away the dirt from the roots
gentle way to remove dirt, not sure about the rock wool, haven't used that
on the mg potting soil, i don't think flushing will change the ph much, and you may be washing away valuable nutes, not sure if this soil has time release, MG organic garden does not have time release nutes
ph 7 isn't perfect, but should be pretty good, especially if water is below 7 ph

damn .. i feel like i probably flushed out a lot of the nutes from the organic choice potting mix when i was trying to readjust the pH of it. The newer clones are starting to go purple and yellow too (maybe because nutrients got flushed out when i was balancing pH???)... i'm tempted to go to home depot right now and pick up something else to grow all of my plants in . either that or re-plant all my plants into the MG Organic Choice Mix and dont flush the soil since the soil's ph is already 7 and just water with ph adjusted water ? . . . i didnt realize time release was gonna be so hard . i figured giving nutes separately allows for more control but is harder . . . what to do . . .

you may have flushed out some, i don't think you got rid of all, may have reduced the 'hotness' of the soil
haven't used mg organic potting
soil like mgmc can work well, it's just not a good beginner's soil
after my bad experience, went as plain organic as i could
organic is simpler for a beginner, less chance of burn, at least it was for me
if you can find a sack of anything that is mostly compost, you'll be better off than the chemical soils