My topped auto is to bushy is she in need of a haircut

whitebb2727 said:

Leaves drive the plant. Every study for various ants say that removing leaves hurt yield.

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no caca. i wasnt saying they dont. there is nothing whatsoever wrong with defoliating your plant. As long as you don't do it at the wrong times. We will see what I yield with what ive been doing then I can report back with my findings from my defoliation rounds. My plants have filled back each and every time I have done my normal two rounds of defoliation (one heavy and one semi-heavy). I only 95% of the time take out the inner most leaves and only 1-2 from each stem and most of the lower small leaves which haven't grown much because they are not getting light.

I have gotten my process down pat with this plant and expect to have maximum yields on my two critical plus photos going by using the same process I have been trying to get down pat. I do plan on adding a new topping technique I learned from a fellow RIU grower, but I will add a twist to it. Basically I am going to top the main stem and fim the 4 most bottom growth tips, along with doing my normal two rounds of heavy and semi heavy defoliation and then LST the rest of the plant after I top/fim the plants.

Sorry for the quality of the pics. I dont bring them out until tomorrow for watering and at least 2 of them definitely need some water...I will be adjusting the branches tomorrow to get them best positioned to take on the light.

Dinafem Sour Diesel AUTO (about 2.5-3 weeks into flowering, I think. I forgot to write down when pistils starting showing) She has a bunch of bud sites (40+) imo from the "wrong" I did to it because of my defoliation and LST technique...lol. joking. And its an auto. Again I do agree if defoliation is not done correctly, you do risk hurting the plant/stunting it:



Dinafem Critical Plus #1 (today is starting week 3 of Veg):



Dinafem Critical Plus #2 (today is starting week 2 of Veg):



Dark Devil in Flowering:

RayRay747 said:

no caca. i wasnt saying they dont. there is nothing whatsoever wrong with defoliating your plant. As long as you don't do it at the wrong times. We will see what I yield with what ive been doing then I can report back with my findings from my defoliation rounds. My plants have filled back each and every time I have done my normal two rounds of defoliation (one heavy and one semi-heavy). I only 95% of the time take out the inner most leaves and only 1-2 from each stem and most of the lower small leaves which haven't grown much because they are not getting light.

I have gotten my process down pat with this plant and expect to have maximum yields on my two critical plus photos going by using the same process I have been trying to get down pat. I do plan on adding a new topping technique I learned from a fellow RIU grower, but I will add a twist to it. Basically I am going to top the main stem and fim the 4 most bottom growth tips, along with doing my normal two rounds of heavy and semi heavy defoliation and then LST the rest of the plant after I top/fim the plants.

Sorry for the quality of the pics. I dont bring them out until tomorrow for watering and at least 2 of them definitely need some water...I will be adjusting the branches tomorrow to get them best positioned to take on the light.

Dinafem Sour Diesel AUTO (about 2.5-3 weeks into flowering, I think. I forgot to write down when pistils starting showing) She has a bunch of bud sites (40+) imo from the "wrong" I did to it because of my defoliation and LST technique...lol. joking. And its an auto. Again I do agree if defoliation is not done correctly, you do risk hurting the plant/stunting it:

View attachment 4084816

Dinafem Critical Plus #1 (today is starting week 3 of Veg):

View attachment 4084817

Dinafem Critical Plus #2 (today is starting week 2 of Veg):

View attachment 4084818

Dark Devil in Flowering:

View attachment 4084824

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Sure cannabis will grow if you remove leave. I do sometimes myself but for very few reasons like to reduce chances of mold.

My point is that basic botany says that those leaves are needed. They are there for a point.

Just showing pics of healthy plants with leaves removed proves nothing.

Show me a side beside where there is an increase in yield from it.

whitebb2727 said:

Sure cannabis will grow if you remove leave. I do sometimes myself but for very few reasons like to reduce chances of mold.

My point is that basic botany says that those leaves are needed. They are there for a point.

Just showing pics of healthy plants with leaves removed proves nothing.

Show me a side beside where there is an increase in yield from it.

Click to expand...

Done correctly defoliation will only help your plant. I agree why the leaves are needed hence why I dont take all of the leaves and I remove them and a specific time. I rarely will remove leaves during veg unless they are really cumbersome. Otherwise I do more leaf tucking and securing leaves back using ties vs defoliating.

Thanks about my plants being healthy tho. I am glad you noticed. lol. seriously thx.

I dont have any side by sides atm i can show, but i could do it using the photos as an experiment if anybody else would be interested in finding out what happens...I am more than willing to try it out with the two critical plus photos I have going. I already have a journal going on both of them (one journal with two plants). One differentiation is that one plant is about 1.5 weeks older than the other. So what I will do, is do everything else the same way except I will defoliate the younger plant since its younger and not touch the older plant besides my normal topping and fimming I will do. SO both will get LST, topping and fimming done to it and same nutes and water schedule. I chose the younger plant since I will have to flip to 12/12 and the older plant will already have more veg time. I plan to use the defoliation technique on the younger smaller plant to see if I can yield as much as the older plant or more.

Its worth a shot, and im up for it...

RayRay747 said:

Done correctly defoliation will only help your plant. I agree why the leaves are needed hence why I dont take all of the leaves and I remove them and a specific time. I rarely will remove leaves during veg unless they are really cumbersome. Otherwise I do more leaf tucking and securing leaves back using ties vs defoliating.

Thanks about my plants being healthy tho. I am glad you noticed. lol. seriously thx.

I dont have any side by sides atm i can show, but i could do it using the photos as an experiment if anybody else would be interested in finding out what happens...I am more than willing to try it out with the two critical plus photos I have going. I already have a journal going on both of them (one journal with two plants). One differentiation is that one plant is about 1.5 weeks older than the other. So what I will do, is do everything else the same way except I will defoliate the younger plant since its younger and not touch the older plant besides my normal topping and fimming I will do. SO both will get LST, topping and fimming done to it and same nutes and water schedule. I chose the younger plant since I will have to flip to 12/12 and the older plant will already have more veg time. I plan to use the defoliation technique on the younger smaller plant to see if I can yield as much as the older plant or more.

Its worth a shot, and im up for it...

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Plants being healthy after the removal of leaves doesnt prove anything.

You make the claim it increases yield. I would like to see the proof.

You keep saying if done at the right time. Leaves are important. They drive the plant and bud production. They store nutrients for the plant.

I'm not talking growing a plant and it looks healthy after removing leaves.

It can't be two different plants either. That ma and nothing as different phenos will yield different.

It needs to be clones off the same plant. Preferably sets of clones of a few different plants.

Just removing some growth and the plant making it to the end and looking good and even smoking good is not proof.

I'm not against selective pruning. That helps many types of plants. Not yield necessarily but bigger fruits.

Swazzing or what ever it is from a $500 book.

It says that cannabis is a wind pollinated plant so it makes sense if the buds are exposed to fresh air they will get bigger.

Not really. Wind doesn't make big buds. Light does. Leaves use light. Mainly fan leaves as the buds and sugar leaf are nowhere near efficient at using light as fans.

It goes on to say that the plant will put energy into buds as it doesn't have to put energy into maintaining fan leaves.

Lol! Seriously. No. The plant doesn't have to maintain those Leaves. It now has to put energy into making new leaves. The plant didn't have to maintain those old leaves. Those leaves actually maintain the plant.

It goes on to say it could be a response to stress. Like if bugs in the wild ate the leaves. The plant rushes to finish.

Yea. A bunch of stress in flower is good. Not.

I hope to didn't blow 500 on a book. I hope this isn't leading to promote the book.

Look at guys like @doublejj that grow monster plants. I mean monsters. Like when he is standing next to one its 2-3 times his height and 4-5 times as wide. They are full of leaves.

A little selective pruning is one thing but that schwazzing stuff is a load of crap.

whitebb2727 said:

Plants being healthy after the removal of leaves doesnt prove anything.

You make the claim it increases yield. I would like to see the proof.

You keep saying if done at the right time. Leaves are important. They drive the plant and bud production. They store nutrients for the plant.

I'm not talking growing a plant and it looks healthy after removing leaves.

It can't be two different plants either. That ma and nothing as different phenos will yield different.

It needs to be clones off the same plant. Preferably sets of clones of a few different plants.

Just removing some growth and the plant making it to the end and looking good and even smoking good is not proof.

I'm not against selective pruning. That helps many types of plants. Not yield necessarily but bigger fruits.

Swazzing or what ever it is from a $500 book.

It says that cannabis is a wind pollinated plant so it makes sense if the buds are exposed to fresh air they will get bigger.

Not really. Wind doesn't make big buds. Light does. Leaves use light. Mainly fan leaves as the buds and sugar leaf are nowhere near efficient at using light as fans.

It goes on to say that the plant will put energy into buds as it doesn't have to put energy into maintaining fan leaves.

Lol! Seriously. No. The plant doesn't have to maintain those Leaves. It now has to put energy into making new leaves. The plant didn't have to maintain those old leaves. Those leaves actually maintain the plant.

It goes on to say it could be a response to stress. Like if bugs in the wild ate the leaves. The plant rushes to finish.

Yea. A bunch of stress in flower is good. Not.

I hope to didn't blow 500 on a book. I hope this isn't leading to promote the book.

@doublejj that grow monster plants. I mean monsters. Like when he is standing next to one its 2-3 times his height and 4-5 times as wide. They are full of leaves.

A little selective pruning is one thing but that schwazzing stuff is a load of crap.

Click to expand...

Defoliation is ok to do as long as done correctly and at the right time.

My plant has a ton of leaves still and is growing bigger daily.

My yields will be good and I’m happy with the health and growth of the plant. I have many bud sites (and as far as I know bud sites are what produce buds) more bud sites equals more bud. Or am I wrong in thinking that.

So unless these many bud sites produce no buds then I’ll assume my methods are perfectly fine and bring about a good yield.

The two photos as I said are critical plus’ grown in same type of medium, same lighting, same water, same nutes, etc. except one is about 1.5 weeks younger.

I was just offering to prove or disprove it is a good technique.

Tbh I’ll do just to see results and offer the data back to the community.

The grow journal will have the steps I take so it can be documented.

Why would I waste $500 on a book...lol. I only also said it was like swaazing not that I actually follow it. And again defoliation done correctly will work wonders....

Its all good tho. I like constructive debates all the time.

RayRay747 said:

Defoliation is ok to do as long as done correctly and at the right time.

My plant has a ton of leaves still and is growing bigger daily.

My yields will be good and I’m happy with the health and growth of the plant. I have many bud sites (and as far as I know bud sites are what produce buds) more bud sites equals more bud. Or am I wrong in thinking that.

So unless these many bud sites produce no buds then I’ll assume my methods are perfectly fine and bring about a good yield.

The two photos as I said are critical plus’ grown in same type of medium, same lighting, same water, same nutes, etc. except one is about 1.5 weeks younger.

I was just offering to prove or disprove it is a good technique.

Tbh I’ll do just to see results and offer the data back to the community.

The grow journal will have the steps I take so it can be documented.

Why would I waste $500 on a book...lol. I only also said it was like swaazing not that I actually follow it. And again defoliation done correctly will work wonders....

Its all good tho. I like constructive debates all the time.

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Ok. Just ignore basic botany.

The plant living and growing bud is not proof taking leaves works.

They would yield more with those leaves.

whitebb2727 said:

Ok. Just ignore basic botany.

The plant living and growing bud is not proof taking leaves works.

They would yield more with those leaves.

Click to expand...

So now you have the proof?

I think it is very much proof that the plant responded well to it. It’s not dying and not slowing down. Again we will see after harvest.

Cmon now neither you or I have proof but all I can say I have many bud sites from my techniques.

Will post results later.

RayRay747 said:

So now you have the proof?

I think it is very much proof that the plant responded well to it. It’s not dying and not slowing down. Again we will see after harvest.

Cmon now neither you or I have proof but all I can say I have many bud sites from my techniques.

Will post results later.

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No. We won't see after harvest. Sure it will finish. It may even be good and pretty. So what. You won't know how much it would yield if you left it alone.

whitebb2727 said:

No. We won't see after harvest. Sure it will finish. It may even be good and pretty. So what. You won't know how much it would yield if you left it alone.

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It’s an auto wasn’t expecting much. But I’m guessing it will produce a nice yield if all the bud sites come together nicely...Proved fimming and topping won’t hurt plant and defoliating only helps make more bud sites. I’ve proven enough to myself that’s all that matters. The photos I’ll do the experiment on and will report back.

I’ve seen more bud sites form from defoliation so I guess I know it works. Until u try u will never know. Why don’t you give it a shot since it seems as you have more experience growing than I do and can actually have something to compare it too.

My results from my photos won’t be in until mid April.

RayRay747 said:

It’s an auto wasn’t expecting much. But I’m guessing it will produce a nice yield if all the bud sites come together nicely...Proved fimming and topping won’t hurt plant and defoliating only helps make more bud sites. I’ve proven enough to myself that’s all that matters. The photos I’ll do the experiment on and will report back.

I’ve seen more bud sites form from defoliation so I guess I know it works. Until u try u will never know. Why don’t you give it a shot since it seems as you have more experience growing than I do and can actually have something to compare it too.

My results from my photos won’t be in until mid April.

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If course topping makes more buds sites. And?

I can assure you I've tried just about every grow method out there.

I agree that some autos respond well to topping and it can increase yield.

Removing leaves won't.

whitebb2727 said:

If course topping makes more buds sites. And?

I can assure you I've tried just about every grow method out there.

I agree that some autos respond well to topping and it can increase yield.

Removing leaves won't.

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Removing leaves exposes more light to the bud sites which in turn makes them grow more than they would if the leaves were blocking the light. So to me it’s simple botany. More light to bud sites equals more larger buds equals more yield.

But we all have different methods and until it can be proven that removing leaves hurts yield I think I’ll stick to my methods which seem to make the plant flourish with bud sites.

RayRay747 said:

Removing leaves exposes more light to the bud sites which in turn makes them grow more than they would if the leaves were blocking the light. So to me it’s simple botany. More light to bud sites equals more larger buds equals more yield.

But we all have different methods and until it can be proven that removing leaves hurts yield I think I’ll stick to my methods which seem to make the plant flourish with bud sites.

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Wrong man. Buds don't use light as well as leaves. That's botany. Lol. That's rich. Cut the leaves off to let light to the buds. If you understood basic botany you would know why leaves are important.

Leaves are what use light. Think of it this way. If any light hits the ground or floor of grow room its going to waste. You want every leaf you can getting light.

Ill leave it at that. Chop your leaves off. I just don't want some new grower doing and screwing up thier grow.

whitebb2727 said:

Wrong man. Buds don't use light as well as leaves. That's botany. Lol. That's rich. Cut the leaves off to let light to the buds. If you understood basic botany you would know why leaves are important.

Leaves are what use light. Think of it this way. If any light hits the ground or floor of grow room its going to waste. You want every leaf you can getting light.

Ill leave it at that. Chop your leaves off. I just don't want some new grower doing and screwing up thier grow.

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again if done correctly defoliation works. if not done correctly it doesnt. I have said that many times over. its not for a new grower to even try doing. I have grown many things other than buds and im fairly confident about my skills. I understand photosynthesis. I did pay attention in class. lol I know leaves drive the plants growth, energy, etc. I never said they didnt. If done correctly you can create more bud sites and get more light to the buds and other leaves by defoliating your plants. I will defoliate my leaves. Not chop off like you must have done with no good results. Look at my plant its bushy and not sure why you dont see that. I defoliate twice and thats all. It works wonders. All good tho. Each us of has their own growing style. I believe it works wonders on my plants and i continue to use the methods that have worked well in my other garden grows.

I will 100% agree with you - defoliation is not for the newbies..you need to know what you are doing. But outright saying its not right to do is completely false and incorrect. If done correctly, it greatly benefits your plants growth and yield.

Not saying you are wrong tho in saying new growers shouldnt touch their plants. Im new to bud growing but not new to gardening and have tried many techniques that worked and didnt work and will stick with what i know works.

Ill leave it at that.

Great debate tho..

When ever the 2 ye stop bitching could ye help this newbie with humity levels been 99 when lights off I have loads of warrdrobe dehumidifiers in there an there collect a lot of water but humity levels still high

Glad to see another guys topping autos.
I have two Train Wrecks in the go.
ones topped and ones left alone.
the topped one is about 2 weeks behind the one left alone.
the topped one is 2x the size.

most autos take well to topping and trimming.
Despite the haters.

Of the 8-10 different auto strains I have ran. I have yet to see ill effects of topping or removing lower branches the don't produce
So far 100% of my "butchered" autos have out performed the ones left alone

Bookush34 said:

Glad to see another guys topping autos.
I have two Train Wrecks in the go.
ones topped and ones left alone.
the topped one is about 2 weeks behind the one left alone.
the topped one is 2x the size.

most autos take well to topping and trimming.
Despite the haters.

Of the 8-10 different auto strains I have ran. I have yet to see ill effects of topping or removing lower branches the don't produce
So far 100% of my "butchered" autos have out performed the ones left alone

Click to expand...

Totally agree...as long as you top and/or fim correctly and defoliate you will be fine. I do it on all my plants, autos and photos and my garden plants as well.

greenskeeper willy said:

When ever the 2 ye stop bitching could ye help this newbie with humity levels been 99 when lights off I have loads of warrdrobe dehumidifiers in there an there collect a lot of water but humity levels still high

Click to expand...

what type of exhaust you got going on?

Any pics of your grow space?

Bookush34 said:

Glad to see another guys topping autos.
I have two Train Wrecks in the go.
ones topped and ones left alone.
the topped one is about 2 weeks behind the one left alone.
the topped one is 2x the size.

most autos take well to topping and trimming.
Despite the haters.

Of the 8-10 different auto strains I have ran. I have yet to see ill effects of topping or removing lower branches the don't produce
So far 100% of my "butchered" autos have out performed the ones left alone

Click to expand...

Fimmed at 6 spots and topped at one and a good amount of LSTing. I have her all natural now and just leaf tuck and shift bud sites here and there...watered the plants todays so they may look a little droopy right now.

The sour (the bigger plant) I had her almost dry to get an idea of how much water she needs and how often. She drinks a ton of water I tell you. I water about twice weekly it and with her I may have to add another small drink just for her mid week.

Here she is still looking nice and full with multiple bud sites even after two rounds of defoliation:





...and if anybody is wondering those are 33" tomato cages. The main cola shot up about another 2" since this pic...

RayRay747 said:

what type of exhaust you got going on?

Any pics of your grow space?

Click to expand...

Here it is now iv a carbon filter exsut fan I have got the humity down to in the 60s with dehumidifiers I have everywhere in the tent I watered em a small drop today and it’s up between 60 and 80s would that be ok

greenskeeper willy said:

Here it is now iv a carbon filter exsut fan I have got the humity down to in the 60s with dehumidifiers I have everywhere in the tent I watered em a small drop today and it’s up between 60 and 80s would that be ok

Click to expand...

what size exhaust, size of grow space, type of filter and exhaust fan?

Why dont you just invest in one larger dehumidifier? Nothing too big but something you can empty once every other day vs those smaller ones...

Any way you can shorten the exhaust ducting and maybe move the exhaust fan/filter up to the top of the tent?

Can you get an oscillating fan? Something that can move the air around a little better than what you are using now?

Just a few suggestions, not sure if they are even fix-its...but one thing I learned was adjusting layouts of my OS fans, my exhaust fan (if you can adjust it), changing from cold air humidifiers to warm air humidifiers, taking out my dehumidifier, moving the humidifier to different parts of the grow space, etc.

Try a few different things and see what happens...but you def want to get the rH down to under 50 if you can since it looks like you got some flowering going on...

Also to me it looks like the plants are over watered - the leaves are drooping and the stems look straight vs the leaf and the stem being droopy/limp...Im not positive but just giving you my opinion...maybe others can chime in and confirm? How often do you water them? How much water?