Mycorrhiza 101...

jberry

Well-Known Member
So for the last few months or so Ive been experimenting with some different brands of inoculants and so far "Symbios Pumpkin Pro" aka "Mykos" by Xtreme Gardening/RTI has worked the best and also happens to be the cheapest brand ive used. (18 bucks a pound)

Plant Success makes a Granular Premium Mycorrhiza, and it works really well, and i would also recommend this if u cant get pumpkin pro or great white. but im not sure how much it costs (i got free samples at a gardening expo)

Great White, also by Plant Success works good too, and it is one of the few powders that can be used in a hydroponic system. (35 bucks for a little 4oz. jar but i got the first jar free)

I also used Myco Madness by Humboldt and Roots Organics Oregonism XL by Aurora, but not enough to get results or it wasnt any good? idk?

here is the pumpkin pro info, it is as good as they say imo.

Symbios Pumpkin Pro Bidding Specs

Labels

RTI produces several select mycorrhizal isolates for improved crop yield and environmental restoration. All of our species were selected after extensive screening by research scientists and universities throughout this country as well as Brazil. These all provide superior growth, crop protection or improved vegetation re-establishment. While we believe the superiority of the single species isolate Glomus intraradices (RTI-801) selection that forms the basis for Pumpkin Pro is the best choice for growth, some growers have expressed interest in a multi species blend. We are therefore adding an additional blend; Symbios Pumpkin Pro III.

This is a combination of the following species:

50% Glomus intraradices (RTI-801) isolated for increased yield with several crops.

25% Glomus claroideum (RTI-55-21-147A) isolated in Brazil for growth and yield.

25% Glomus clarum (RTI-55-21-147B) also isolated for growth and yield in Brazil.

Biological and Biostimulant Recommendations for Growers:

RTI does not blend in additional biostimulants. We currently offer just the straight goods. Blending would dilute the concentration of mycorrhizal infectivity. Many of these amendments and bio-agents are extremely valuable to your cultural practice, but we recommend that you add these yourself and to make sure you get these products from credible sources. You can find trichoderma, streptomyces and bacillus under the fingernails of most four year olds after a day in the park. That does not mean they are beneficial selections for use in crop production. Reliable suppliers with a history of customer satisfaction are the best source.

The following is a list of products or soil amendments that are known to be compatible or synergistic when combined with Symbios Pumpkin Pro.

Humic Acids:

Function primarily as chelating agents, particularly with phosphorus. Both Leonardite and Rutile sand derivatives have been combined with Symbios and are compatible and possibly synergistic.

Kelp Products:

A source of cytokinin like material that enhances root and shoot division. These can produce synergistic effects when combined with mycorrhizae. kelp meals and powders are a good food source for other "Root Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria" or "RGPR’s". The more refined products are concentrated sources of cytokinin and some must be registered as "Plant Growth Regulators". Maxi-Crop, Acadian and North American Kelp products are all compatible / possibly synergistic when used with Symbios.

Trichoderma:

Certain isolates are registered or known to be "Pathogen Antagonists" or organisms that feed on botrytis, fusarium and penicillium organisms.

Streptomyces:

Actinovate (Streptomyces lydicus) is an EPA registered bio fungicide proven to be effective against pythium, rhizoctonia, phytophthera, sclerotinia and powdery mildew. It is compatible with Symbios.

Compost teas:

A properly brewed compost tea full of a plethora of soil fungi (not mycorrhizae) and bacteria should produce synergistic effects when Symbios is present in the soil.

Natural fertilizers:

Soluble agricultural fertilizers are high in salt and can reduce populations of beneficial soil organisms. Poultry based fertilizer and fish based fertilizers (along with others) are among those that are likely compatible with Symbios.
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
From Dutch Master's website:

"BENEFICIAL BACTERIA:
Why we DO NOT Recommend the use of Beneficial Mycorrhizae (Fungi) and Bacteria in Hydroponics!
Mycorrhizae are beneficial fungi that penetrate the roots of most plants in nature. This symbiotic relationship is beneficial in that the plant provides sugars to the fungi, and the fungi enhance nutrient uptake for the plant. There are two major groups of mycorrhizae: ectomycorrhyzae and endomychorrhizae. The 'ectos' do not actually penetrate the cells of the roots, but are found between the intercellular spaces. Ectos have been found to be able to utilize a range of organic compounds such as proteins, peptides and amino acids (1, 5, 7,). However, these fungi are restricted to coniferous tree species (gymnosperms) and Ericacious (heath/ bog) species where soil breakdown of amino acids is minimal (1, 2, 5).


Endomycorrhizal fungi aid in water and nutrient uptake, especially phosphorus, but do not aid in mineralization of organic matter, and thus have not been found to take up organic nutrients (1-7). Unlike ectos, 'endos' invade root cortical cell walls and can form branched structures called arbuscules which are efficient sites of exchange between fungus and root cell. Endos are primarily associated with herbaceous plants (angiosperms) commonly grown in greenhouses and hydroponic systems (1-7).

In hydroponics, there would be little value to be obtained from mycorrhizal associations in this situation. Their value is to provide improved uptake of water and minerals from the soil / growing media. In a hydroponic setting, the plant has constant access to all the water and dissolved minerals it needs. The mycorrhizal fungi would do little to improve on a root constantly bathed in water and minerals, however may aid in nutrient uptake under plant stress and low root biomass (3, 8). Most hydroponically grown plants are of angiosperm origin, and since endomycorrhizae are not known to take up whole organic molecules in any situation, these fungi would not benefit in the uptake of a root based supplement product containing these substances. Many products make claims of enhanced growth and yield from beneficial microorganisms added to the nutrient solution along with organic fertilizers. This phenomenon can be attributed to the enzymatic secretions of these fungi into the solution to breakdown organic matter into its essential elements for uptake and transport to the roots (8, 9). Essentially, it is the same as adding extra fertilizer.

In soil mediums where organic fertilizers are used, the extra surface area provided by the mycorrhizal associations can act to enhance nutrient uptake, and to break down (via enzymatic secretions from the fungi) organic matter into its essential minerals useable by plants. Beneficial bacteria are useful in this situation again by breaking down organic matter and rendering it useful to plants in its simple mineral form. Organic fertilizers are slow acting and slow releasing, and these beneficial organisms are necessary in situations where no added mineral salts are present. However, there is little to be gained even in soil and soilless mediums when complete fertilizers with all essential nutrients are present. The use of Beneficial Bacteria in hydroponic systems can clog lines, filters and pumps."
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
im in coco... its the perfect home for the fungi to colonize and its hydro.
my yields went up.
Your yields went up, eh? The fungi depend on carbohydrates from the host plant to survive. If you're changing or adding to your reservoir frequently, they can not get the nutrition they need, or it would seem.

All this stuff about humic, fulvic acids, myco, etc. is quite funny. People see what they want to see, people expect to see what they expect to see. If you use a typical potting soil, you don't need any of the snake oils the Dutch are pushing. For example, peat moss contains one of the highest counts of the humic/fulvic acids of any organics, same with compost.

UB
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
Well you arent paying attention.

1. Im in a drain to waste sytem.

2. Coco already has all humic and other acids i need. (I never said that I personally added extra)

3. I am sooo sick of you UB!... Please go away!! I already lost all respect for you UB, I know you talk about things that you dont know about (and you mix it in with things u do know about), and you like to snitch on people. I want to keep my distance from dangerous rats. I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone and dont fuck with my threads. Ive also read in your posts that in addition to ratting people out, and hating on people, you dont even grow weed anymore, and you are always talking about "stoners" in a negative way. I highly doubt you even smoke weed or you would be growing.... im on to your hating ways and im getting pretty sick grumpy senior citizens that dont grow trying to talk shit to someone who has grown thousands and thousands of plants.

You are the worst person ive seen on RIU when it comes to only selecting the info that works for you and just ignoring the rest.... today was a perfect example. You admit that you havent even tested with any side by side tests, yet you keep on talking as if you actually know about certain products.... I have used and tested more products than u could even name.

I simply dont like you and I wont post on your threads if you dont post on mine.... Deal? or War?
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Well you arent paying attention.

1. Im in a drain to waste sytem.
Same thang. How are the fungi being fed? Where are they getting their carbos necessary to sustain their growth.

2. Coco already has all humic and other acids i need. (I never said that I personally added extra)
No it doesn't, it's pretty much inert unlike Peat moss or compost which is loaded with humic/fulvic acids. I was growing in coco fiber when guys like you were still messin' in their drawers.

3. I am sooo sick of you UB!...
I imagine you are.

....... and you like to snitch on people. I want to keep my distance from dangerous rats.
"Dangerous rats", hah! That is hilarious. Exactly what makes me so dangerous? This is the reason why you and I don't get along....I do not get along well with a bullshitter. Now your sinking to a new low with such ridiculous accusations. If you can't back up your statements, then it seems wise that you shouldn't be making them.

Ive also read in your posts that in addition to ratting people out,.....
We're quite the desperate one, eh. Where in "my posts" are you talking about?

Recommend you reread your initial post. Think soil mah man. ;)

Carry on,
UB
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported" and you admit in another thread that you dont currently grow weed and havent for years, and like i said, i doubt you even smoke weed... So, Why are you on here fucking with people when you dont even grow anymore??? get a life buddy, this is a grow site.... and you dont grow.

go report someone old man, just stay the fuck away from me...
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
Coco itself generates humic acid and other organic acids during decomposition and no additional would be required. Additionally, Cytokinins are requested to assist in the stress of initial innoculation as the fungus penetrates the root system.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported"....
Report a post to a mod, ya lame brain. There is a report button at the top right of the post. Feel free to try it out.

Cytokinins are requested to assist in the stress of initial innoculation as the fungus penetrates the root system.
Cytokinin is a hormone. What is the connection and how exacting is requesting them? What's this "stress" biz?
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
i know lame brain, and i will take a pass on "trying it". If you run to the Moderaters then you would surely run to the cops... I mean its not like YOU grow, so you have nothing to fear. A rat is a rat is a rat, no matter how you look at it or what its about.

as for your questions, please stop posting in my threads and figure the shit out yourself... your the one that has been playing in coco since 1897 or whatever, so you should already know this shit.

you like to be a bully and fuck with everyone, make people feel dumb, your insulting, you talk down about "stoners", you dont even grow, and i dont like you.

obviously i cant make you leave me alone but im asking you to.... can you do that????
 

s.c.mtn.hillbilly

Well-Known Member
this thread sure took a bad turn! in my view; hydro is outta' touch with nature, and out of balance. processed nutes lack....the microsphere needs the least tainted ingredients in order to function as a web. I love coco; but it has its place: no more than 30% of your soil. its main functin is aeration. water retention is just a bonus. myco-, coco, and joe's nutes is NOT a microsphere! the above, with real dirt, guanos, fire ash, kelp meal, azomite, humic shale, blood meal, fish bone meal, and BIODYNAMIC COMPOST....now THAT's a start......... a major human factor though is :how anal and squeamish are you? are you a nitpicking bitch that shouldn't be in the biz in the 1st. place? or can you handle a brown recluse crawling across your face without freakin' out? my op is ALL about the microsphere- that means BUGS... lotsa' bugs! I do my best to stay the hell outta' the way. what you spray is what you smoke! don't gimme' none of that rinsed off crap! it's inside! I have an army of spiders and insects that eat WELL. ZERO bug problems-because I DON'T have a problem with them! and that's INDOOR. if you have diseases and bug damage, chances are, you don't have the full symbiosis goin' on. nature has taken aeons to perfect this web; man's arrogance has rendered vast sections of this country inert...and now he's brought it indoors. I grow sukiyaki samurais, not crack whores!
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
im okay with the turns it took... and i like a good crack whore.

what is joes nutes? and are you asking me if i am a bitch? im a little confused ?

anyhow, coco works very well for me and im not asking you to use it. No disrespect meant.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
It didnt take long for the fungus to infest the roots of these seeds. The fungus will continue to propagate and infest as the root system develops.




[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mycorrhizal application is easy and requires no special equipment. The goal is to create physical contact between the mycorrhizal inoculant and the plant root. Mycorrhizal inoculant can be sprinkled onto roots during transplanting, worked into seed beds, blended into potting soil, "watered in" via existing irrigation systems, applied as a root dip gel or probed into the root zone of existing plants. The type of application depends upon the conditions and needs of the applicator.

[/FONT]Mix it in at the roots and try to make direct root contact to make the infection earlier and stronger.
 

Sakca

Member
u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported" and you admit in another thread that you dont currently grow weed and havent for years, and like i said, i doubt you even smoke weed... So, Why are you on here fucking with people when you dont even grow anymore??? get a life buddy, this is a grow site.... and you dont grow.

go report someone old man, just stay the fuck away from me...
I think that old man part made me shit my pants, :rolleyes: That dudes' a Jesus around here! And you totally humiliate his perception just because you're too lazy to emphasize on his green thumb.:bigjoint: Way to be killing all the free air. Lawl!
 
well sorry to bum you out, but thats how i feel.
well sorry to bum you out, but thats how i feel.
J.Berry I saw that you were using MYKOS - mentioned earlier in thread. I haven't tried it yet, but I met some reps from the company the other night in Marin at a showcase at the Sloat Garden Center. They seemed highly-knowledgeable and gave me an info packet with loads of info. I thought I'd post the company story that they provided and see what others thought.

Good stuff it sounds like?

RTI: Nature-Inspired, Science-Driven

Deforestation
According to the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), deforestation may account for up to a third of human-generated carbon dioxide emissions.[1] One company has taken up the call of restoring our forests - Reforestation Technologies International. RTI’s fertilizers have helped establish over a quarter billion seedlings, combating the negative effects of global deforestation.

Polluting Fertilizers
While designing highly effective and environmentally-friendly plant food for forest restoration has been a step in the right direction, RTI has been inspired to find other ways to improve horticultural aids that can maximize plant and environmental health. Farmers and home gardeners commonly use fertilizers to ensure that plants receive the right levels of vitamins and minerals. Unfortunately, average commercial fertilizers are creating a mess of problems. The fertilizer life-cycle accounts for 2 to 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions.[3] This is non-trivial to be sure, especially considering that fertilizer manufacturing produces methane - a greenhouse gas 20x more harmful than carbon dioxide.[4]

In addition to releasing greenhouse gases while being manufactured, fertilizer run-off is damaging our oceans and lakes. Losing 85-95% of a fertilizer is both highly inefficient for the grower and damaging to the environment, yet almost all fertilizers have such poorly designed nutrient-delivery systems. Only about 10% of conventional fertilizer actually helps plants grow, the rest is washed through the soil and eventually filters into waterways. There, the fertilizer does what it is supposed to do – it helps plants grow. Unfortunately, that leads to algae colonies blooming across oceans and lakes, killing fish and marine mammals by removing oxygen from the water. RTI has designed organic fertilizers that are wrapped in a biodegradable coating which lose less than 1% of nitrogen to run-off [2]. Instead of contaminating rivers, streams, and oceans, RTI fertilizers are slowly released to plants to provide 100% nutrient support.

Guided by Nature
Simply creating a better fertilizer was never RTI's goal. Instead RTI is inspired by biomimicry - researching soil and plant ecology to understand how a nature-designed system maximizes yield without creating negative side-effects. Rather than relying on heavy water and fertilization, RTI has sought to understand how plants in natural settings thrive without human cultivation.These investigations have led RTI's research team to the complex web of interrelated soil microorganisms that sustain plants through droughts, make soil and air nutrients available to plants, and protect their hosts from invaders.

One of the most important of these organisms is mycorrhizae, a soil fungus that is the star quarterback of the soil microbe team. Plants have been depending on mycorrhizae for a long time. In fact, this relationship has been developing over the last 450 million years! Evidence indicates plants may even never have left the water 450 million years ago without the assistance of mycorrhizae.[5]

So how does mycorrhiza work? Under the ground, microscopic fungal filaments attach to a plant's roots and then stretch outwards into the soil, creating a huge extended roots network. These fungal fibers are 60x skinnier than plant roots and stretch up to 100x further into the soil, and they can optimize nutrient collection far better than the plant can by itself. In addition to being skinny enough to reach into tiny crevices, mycorrhizae more efficiently produces the special enzymes needed to dissolve locked-up nutrients, such as phosphorus, resulting in a far greater collection of vitamins and minerals. Finally, mycorrhizae help strengthen the plant and protect it from invaders such as white root rot and other soil diseases. The fungal filaments which reach out and mine the soil, called hyphae, actually release natural disease-suppressing phenols.

After studying the benefits of mycorrhizae to plants, RTI paired with world-renowned research scientists in Brazil and the United States such as Dr. Robert Linderman to select the species of mycorrhizae that most effectively increased plant health. From this collaboration came Mykos, a mycorrhizal product which has surpassed our wildest hopes. The last 4 World Record Largest Pumpkins were all grown using Mykos! This is a bigger deal than it may first appear (if you'll pardon the pun), as pumpkins grow larger than any other fruit or vegetable. Mykos' benefits hardly stop with pumpkins, though. RTI's mycorrhizae was also used to grow the World's Second Largest Tomato (Nick Harp), and the World's Largest Squash (John Vincent & Brian McGill). In addition to growing larger plants, Mykos grows healthier plants that are more delicious and nutritious.

After seeing Mykos transform so many farms and gardens, RTI has sought to create more products that can help create the perfect soil environment for your plants. Recently, RTI cultivated another soil microbe called Azospirillum brasilense. We just call it Azos. Plants need nitrogen to be lush and healthy. The good news? The atmosphere is almost 80% nitrogen. The bad news? Plants are unable to absorb nitrogen directly from the air. Here is where Azos comes in. This tiny bacterium comes from the Amazon rainforest, where plants use it to convert atmospheric nitrogen into plant nitrogen. In addition, Azos releases Indole-3-Acetic-Acid (IAA), a hormone that naturally stimulates plant growth. [7] The results of using Azos can be seen in places such as the City of Indian Wells, CA, where the use of Azos in conjunction with the symbiotic help of Mykos, has saved the city $38,000 in fertilizer and 6.5 million gallons of water over the last 18 months. That doesn’t include the amount saved on labor-costs of not having to re-fertilize. As the city reaches the two-year benchmark of utilizing RTI products, they have yet to find the need to re-fertilize and their grasses look greener and more vibrant than they ever have.

This last year, RTI discovered the key to naturally utilizing one of nature’s greatest mysteries – photosynthesis. Photosynthesis, the process of converting light energy to chemical energy and storing it in the bonds of sugar, has long since its discovery been used to significantly increase plant growth. [8] Until recently, manipulating levels of carbon dioxide was the only efficient method of increasing photosynthesis in crop production. RTI sought to find a natural alternative to CO2 tanks and burners, one that increased photosynthesis while leaving plants’ natural atmospheric state unaltered. Their answer? CO2, a revolutionary calcium carbonate foliar spray.

CO2 is unique in that its calcium carbonate source is naturally precipitated so finely that it is able to be absorbed through the stomata of plant leaves. Once inside the cell wall, it breaks off into usable calcium and usable carbon dioxide, effectively increases photosynthesis rates by up to 200%, reaching the optimal level that plants desire/require, and ending the need for environmentally-damaging tanks and burners altogether. CO2’s unique delivery system requires that users only need to apply it on a bi-monthly basis, saving enormous amounts of time, labor, and money compared to conventional means. In addition, CO2 delivers another crucial benefit – water retention. Due to CO2’s method of delivery, via the intercellular space, the stomata of plant leaves no longer need to stay open in an attempt to fixate carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, allowing for significant levels of transpiration (the evaporation of water into the atmosphere from the leaves and stems of plants), but they can now remain closed, effectively increasing the water retention capabilities of plants by up to 80%! [9]

Over the last 15 years this California-based company has shown time and again that when biological mimesis combines with green engineering, we can make products that take better care of our plants and better care of the planet.

Mykos and Azos are available for order at Reforestation Technologies International's website at http://www.reforest.com/products/xtreme-gardening or by phone at 1-800-RTI-GROW (1-800-784-4769).

1) http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter7.pdf
2) Journal of the Soil Science Society of America, 2003
3) http://www.fertilizer.org/content/download/22932/328667/version/1/file/2009_ifa_climate_change.pdf
4) http://epa.gov/methane/reports/2001update.pdf
5) Simon, L., Bousquet, J., Levesque, C., Lalonde, M. (1993). "Origin and diversification of endomycorrhizal fungi and coincidence with vascular land plants". Nature 363: 67–69.
6) Trappe, J.M. (1987) Phylogenetic and ecologic aspects of mycotrophy in the angiosperms from an evolutionary standpoint. Ecophysiology of VA Mycorrhizal Plants, G.R. Safir (EDS), CRC Press, Florida
7) http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20791104
8) http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/Bio104/photosyn.htm
9) http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/hyd/trsp.rxml
 
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