Mycorrhizae Question

I am going on the assumption that mycorrhizal fungi are a self-propagating thing kinda like lactobaccili.
I am preparing the soil for my 2nd grow, and am adding Bio-Tone plus (with mycorrhizae) as an amendment. The directions call for 2 cups for a plant in a 5 gal container.
Am I right in assuming that these critters will multiply in the growing media? So that I can use a bit less than the recommended amount and achieve the same results? I can fill 10 5gal buckets with 2 big bags of soil, and 2 bags of BioTone at a bit under the recommended amount of Bio Tone.

dont know bout your fungi stuff but your dog is cute

Yeah, he's a piece of work that's for sure!!

i have a husky shepard mix named misty

def use less then recomended, Eventually the mycco will kick in but it will take a bit longer. Buy a product solely with mycco in it, you won't be dissapointed.

gangjababy said:

def use less then recomended, Eventually the mycco will kick in but it will take a bit longer. Buy a product solely with mycco in it, you won't be dissapointed.

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Thanx Ganja! I bought the Bio-tone, but there is another product that is specifically mycorrhizae. It was a choice between $6.95 and $19.95. The BioTone has what they call "CFU's" or colony forming units, and supposedly each pound has 5,678,668 (Their numbers) CFU's of over 30 species.
It also has 4-3-3 NPK, and Ca, Mg, and S as well.
There is another product that is purportedly primarily mycorrhizae, to the tune of $20.00 per pound as opposed to $6.95 for 4 lbs of Bio-tone. The labels read that they are pretty similar. I have already mixed my soil for this grow so it's kinda late to ask, but should I have used the other, more expensive product? I don't think I went wrong on this, just that I MIGHT have done better.(couldn't we always?) God willing there will be many grows to come. Thanx for the input. If this helps the yield I'll be tickled shitless!! My last grows' yield was better than expected without it.

I use hydro organics myccorhizae. It is only mycco, it had no time release fert in it. It has a higher concentration of fungi then biotone. Don't go crazy trying to innoculate the soil and then burning your plants from too much fertilizer. I pay 14 bucks for a pound, it will innoculate something like 50+ gallons of soil but I use at least twice the rec amount.

myccorhizal fungi is pretty much guaranteed to end up on your roots if you attempt to put it on there. One thing i have learned at school is that they are great for increasing surface area of your roots and helping bring up water. But advanced nutrients can fuck up your fungi pretty good. So whatever products you use make sure that they apply to fungi too because it is a symbiotic realtionship, healthy fungus means healthy plant

LMAO. Advanced Nutrients isn't going to "hurt" myccorhizae. They have their own product that has it (Piranha). You're not going to kill off your beneficial fungi with normal nutrients.

You just have to keep in mind that the fungus has to eat too, so you've got to feed a little extra for it to stay healthy. Do that and it can increase the effective surface area of the roots by something like 700%.

depending on nutrients and fertilizers, yeah you can fuck them up. Not to say you cant use nutrients on them you just need to be careful.

Make sure you have space for the root ball too. I have heard of people using steel drums or garbage cans for their roots balls using myccorhizal fungus

Did you just hear that from some guy or is there more than that to back this up?

Yeah, you can kill beneficial fungi with hydroponics nutrients, but if you're doing that you're probably roasting your plants too. That's hardly something to do with Advanced Nutrients at any rate. You can screw things up with any nute.

You can drop seeds in your nutrient bottles and wow, nothing grows!

Doesn't have squat to do with the manufacturer. That's pure operator error.

Alot of stuff can kill your micro beasties, such as ph extremes or fluctuations, extreme temps, over fertilization, etc
Basically the same things that would kill your ladies

Heres a link on Myccos and how they work
http://www.eastofedenplants.co.uk/images/db/rootgrow/RHS%20by%20Jon%20Ardle.pdf

Can i use beneficial fungi in my hydro system? im using rockwool in an ebb & flow system with davids grow nutes.

Yes
I know that the stuff I use, Blue Mountain Organics Super Plant Tonic can be used in both soil and hydro applications
Also, if you take some and put it in a container with phed dechlorinated water with some sugar or molasses and an airstone, it will help to propogate more micro beasties and in turn stretch out your supply

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/117084-uses-super-plant-tonic.html

This is a helpful thread on BMO Plant Tonic and myccos

Many thanks 'Causeitscool. i will buy some asap, i just found out davids grow makes some for their nutes.

Did you just hear that from some guy or is there more than that to back this up?

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naw man i go to school for horticulture. Im old fashion i guess in the sense of growing things mycorrizhal fungi is so beneficial to the roots which really allows the plant to grow healthy. Mycorrizhal fungi takes suars out from the phloem and helps the plant take up water through the xylem. In order for the fungi to help the uptake of the water with nutrients in it ti will have to pass through your fungi and is easier to do than you think. A hand full of kids this year at my school killed like 10 victoria style hangin baskets because they have mycorrizhal fungi in the root ball.

I dont know how little or how much it takes but i know that it is easier to fuck up a plant with the fungi on it with nutrients than without, that is for certain

My understanding is that if your soil was perfectly ideal for beneficial fungus growth you would not need to add anything to it. If you are like me you don't expect to get everything 100% perfect. Instead you hope to have a great harvest with what you have available. One good approach is to buy good soil, coco, rockwool,.... Buy a good fertilizer. Then grow with that. While this works really well it is not 100% perfect for beneficial fungus. If fact it is sorta bad for it. So the approach is this: Start with sterile soil then add way way more spores than you would need in ideal soil. Let the beneficial fungus die off a little (since you are using chemical fertilizer and/or do not have ideal temp and humidity). Then add even more spores as you go to replace the ones that die. After harvest dispose of all growing medium and start over.

You can feed/grow those spores. One time I took 50/50 earth worm castings and vermiculite. Then I added some spores from Fungi Perfecti®: gourmet and medicinal mushrooms, left it for 1 month.
When I checked it after a month the fungi had visible white strands throughout the mix. It was not a loose soil but hard fungi filled chunks of medium. I broke it up and mixed it with coco. It worked great! That grow was in an ebb-flow hydro with 50% my fungi mix and 50% coco. I kept my ppm around 500 and my ph at 6. I saved a lot of money on both spores and chemical fertilizer since I used very little of it. The down side for me was that my ph got really hard to keep down, I am not sure why? Also I got gnats from all the organics.

I am guessing that fertilizing with a little organic fertilizer and maybe some sugary plant food and the spores will help the fungi & bacteria grow. I tried a large dose of that fish fertilizer and spores, killed the plant with nutrient burn, and saw the same visible exposition of fungus growth. I think the fungi contributed to the nutrient burn,
by making the nutrients more available.

I purchased mine from here: Fungi Perfecti®: MycoGrow™ mycorrhizal products

ISmokePotBecauseItsCool said:

Alot of stuff can kill your micro beasties, such as ph extremes or fluctuations, extreme temps, over fertilization, etc
Basically the same things that would kill your ladies

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Exactly. If you do something that would kill your plants your fungi are probably going to die too. They don't have a significantly larger or smaller tolerance range in any category that I'm aware of.

SlikWiLL13 said:

Can i use beneficial fungi in my hydro system? im using rockwool in an ebb & flow system with davids grow nutes.

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Absolutely. In fact the effect it has in hydroponics is arguably more significant considering the already profound efficiency hydroponics enjoys.

5nug said:

naw man i go to school for horticulture. Im old fashion i guess in the sense of growing things mycorrizhal fungi is so beneficial to the roots which really allows the plant to grow healthy. Mycorrizhal fungi takes suars out from the phloem and helps the plant take up water through the xylem. In order for the fungi to help the uptake of the water with nutrients in it ti will have to pass through your fungi and is easier to do than you think. A hand full of kids this year at my school killed like 10 victoria style hangin baskets because they have mycorrizhal fungi in the root ball.

I dont know how little or how much it takes but i know that it is easier to fuck up a plant with the fungi on it with nutrients than without, that is for certain

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This isn't what you said before. You said that nutrients - specifically Advanced Nutrients - would kill fungi.

Granted, that is true but only under conditions that would kill the plants regardless of the fungi. And no more so for Advanced Nutrients than any other nutrient manufacturer.


Utterly ridiculous. It's no easier to kill a plant with or without fungi. It's simply a matter of treating them appropriately. As always, if you don't take care of your plants correctly you won't see them flourish.

"Different" to care for is much different than "harder".

hooked.on.phonics stated "Utterly ridiculous. It's no easier to kill a plant with or without fungi."
That is not what my experience tells me. I can give my plants a huge dose of fish fertilizer and they don't die of nutrient burn, but the same dose of fertilizer with fungi kills the plant. I think the organic fertilizer breaks down faster with fungi and therefore becomes available sooner, so the time release effect of organics is somewhat reduced.
Also any chemical fertilizer will kill the fungi. Not immediately, but it will.