New Beginnings for Massachussetts and I

JustCallmeMom

Well-Known Member
MOMMY IS IN PANIC MODE....what the heck is that on my 13 day old baby's leaf tip? Looks like a little burn or something. Only on one leaf, no nutes yet, watering with 6.5 water and liquid seaweed only, medium is half happy frog half roots organics, CFL's 3" away.

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JustCallmeMom

Well-Known Member
She's still pretty young. How hot is your soil? Keep an eye on the other tips.
soil is half happy frog, half roots organics and watering 6.5 with liquid seaweed. signs point to nute burn.....yes??? maybe I should just plain water the next couple of feedings. OMG....its like a real child is sick, but I cant pick up phone and call doc to take her to his office! :-) Guess I will give it a shot and post in the infirmary section. blech.
 
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Creature1969

Well-Known Member
MOMMY IS IN PANIC MODE....what the heck is that on my baby's leaf tip? Looks like a little burn or something. Only on one leaf,no nutes yet, CFL's 3" away.

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Don't panic! Do you have your towel? (I hope you get the reference lol).

So long as the rest of her looks happy, don't worry too much yet. Could be as simple as you got some water on it. If it's nute burn, you're likely past it if new growth looks okay. One of my girls has gone back and forth with burn due to my soil. lol.
 

Bountykiller420

Well-Known Member
week 5 update, moved some shit around, transplanted one from solo cup to bigger pot, tucked a bunch of leaves under new growth thats why they look a little droopy, light sitting at 28" above canopy they are doing alot better since moving the light up, front middle plants bottom branches near caught up to main stalk....gonna start getting real crowded in there soon, some new ones are being popped for the buddy i built the other light for, few broke soil, still waitin on a couple
 

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Bountykiller420

Well-Known Member
week 5 update, moved some shit around, transplanted one from solo cup to bigger pot, tucked a bunch of leaves under new growth thats why they look a little droopy, light sitting at 28" above canopy they are doing alot better since moving the light up, front middle plants bottom branches near caught up to main stalk....gonna start getting real crowded in there soon, some new ones are being popped for the buddy i built the other light for, few broke soil, still waitin on a couple
Its actually more like week 5 middle, week 4 right side, week 3 left side, was having issues with some seeds popping....i guess thats why they were freebies lol
 

Bosgrower

Well-Known Member
Quantum boards (5000K) are online ... they are brighter and hotter than the 3590s (4000K) ... quite significantly. I'm doing some testing before I move the girls into the new tent ... picture and updates to follow.
I was debating whether I really needed ventilation for the veg tent unless I had a really stinky strain. Guess the answer is a big YES. Left a thermometer on top of the slate 1 heat sink and I was in the mid to upper 80s by the time I turned it off.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
MOMMY IS IN PANIC MODE....what the heck is that on my 13 day old baby's leaf tip? Looks like a little burn or something. Only on one leaf, no nutes yet, watering with 6.5 water and liquid seaweed only, medium is half happy frog half roots organics, CFL's 3" away.

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Do you spray water on them? I've seen that when a drop of water stands in one place too long, like a drop at the end of a leaf....... the color is tan or white, not dark.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Could be light burn then. My lights can be pretty intense and I've seen it happen. I don't overfeed......
 

Bountykiller420

Well-Known Member
A high light plant such as Cannabis needs a minimum of 22 mols/m2/day of photons to as high as 65 mols/m2/day which is the range of optimal growth. Yes if you don't have that much light, cannabis will still grow, but you will typically see lower yields, less dense buds, lower THC percentages because the plant isn't operating at its best.



Converting DLI to PPFD
Now how do we get from DLI Mol/m2/day to PPFD or micromoles/m2/second.

The formula to convert this would be:
You would use this formula...

PPFD x 0.0864 = DLI
OR
DLI / 0.0864 = PPFD

So lets look at cannabis, knowing that cannabis needs at least (Minimum for optimal growth) 22mol/m2/day DLI at minimum for optimal photosynthesis lets break it down.

22 / 0.0864 = 254.6 micromoles/m2/s-1 (PPFD)

This is the amount of photons you need every second, averaged over 1 square meter, for the whole 24 hours if usuing a 24/0 daylight schedule (no dark period).

So what happens if you are using a 18/6 veg period or a 12/12 flowering light schedule... simple...

If using a 12/12 flowering schedule, you are only using 12 hours of the 24 hours of the day, which means you would take the 254.6 Micromoles/m2/s-1 and multiply it by 2, since you are reducing the amount of daylight by 1/2 (12 hours), then each hour of the daylight period you need double the amount of photons... so in this example you would need 509.25 micromoles/m2/second.

If using a 18/6 schedule, you are using 3/4 of the amount of daylight with 18 hours on, 6 hours off, therefore you would multiply the 24hr PPFD by 1.5 because you are using only 3/4 of the day, or 1 1/2 times the 12 hour requirement. In this example a DLI of 22, under a 18/6 schedule would amount to 381.5 micromoles/m2/second.


So for cannabis, bottom threshold for optimal growth and photosynthesis is a DLI of DLI of 22 would be:
****Going lower than these numbers will still grow cannabis, however yields, bud density, potency and THC percentage may suffer.
24/0 schedule: 254.6 micromoles/m2/s-1
18/6 schedule: 381.5 micromoles/m2/s-1
12/12 schedule: 509.25 micromoles/m2/s-1



For Cannabis, the Top threshold for optimal growth and photosynthesis is a DLI of 65 moles per day.
***extremely important notice, only go up to these amounts if you are using supplemental CO2, do not go this high if you are not using supplemental CO2 as you will actually slow down photosynthesis and waste energy.

24/0 schedule: 752.31 micromoles/m2/s-1
18/6 schedule: 1128.465 micromoles/m2/s-1
12/12 schedule: 1504.6 micromoles/m2/s-1


The generally accepted guidelines for artificial light PPFD in flowering are this:
in a 12/12


PPFD of at least 510 micromoles/m2/s-1 for the low end of optimal intensity
PPFD of at least 800-1100 micromoles/m2/s-1 for perfect optimal lighting without additional CO2.
PPFD of at least 800-1500 micromoles/m2/s-1 for perfect optimal lighting WITH additional CO2.


So now that we know what all these numbers mean, how to we interpret these PAR charts or 4'x4' grids with PAR readings?
Typically if a Lighting company presents a PAR chart "4'x4' grid" with measurements, you will see a bunch of readings all over the place.
Even though PAR measurements are in micromoles/METER/second this is with a constant and even light source what the average would be... grow lights, especially LED's do not have an even footprint and intensity can change rapidly over just 6" or 1" away from the center of the light. This is why these 4'x4' PAR grids are important because the light source is not even, it shows us the Actual area that will produce the OPTIMAL amount of PHOTONS for driving photosynthesis at each point of the grid.

So now knowing for flowering you need to see a grid with a bunch of 510's all over it or higher for flowering, you can see exactly how far a light will spread to OPTIMALLY drive your plant. Also, usually when a company makes these grids, they do it at heights of 12", 18", 24" and 36". By comparing the charts, you can tell at what height a certain light will spread providing 510's or higher and at what height would be optimal to hang the light. The closer the light is to the canopy/or meter, the higher the amount of photons that will be hitting it, but the narrower the coverage area will be (less light is scattering). The further away you move the light, the more photons that scatter leaving less to hit the canopy resulting in a larger coverage area but less Photon Density (PPFD).

Now if you don't see 510's or higher across your chart for your light, does that mean it wont work...NO.. it will just produce less photosynthesis which typically results in more airy buds, less potency and THC, and lower yields.

You can also look at these charts to see how you would hang multiple lights, by combining 2 charts together... lets say 2' out from the center of your light, the chart is only reading 250 micromoles/m2/s-1, well you know if you added a 2nd light and combined their outputs, with them spaced apart 2 feet from each other, then that center point between them (the 250 micromole/m2/s-1 mark) would double, now making that area optimal for flowering in a 12/12 schedule.

This is why it is important that companies provide this information, so we can all make accurate decisions on plant lighting for our plant species, photoperiod usage, and making sure to have a even light footprint over our canopies.



So all and all the things you will want to remember from this are:

*Light plants use is in tiny packets called photons.

*Plants count photons, this count directly drives photosynthesis.

*Only photons with a wavelength of 400nm-700nm matter for photosynthesis (some say 380nm-780nm)

*All colors of Light/wavelengths in the PAR range will absorb, at 80% or higher rates

*PAR measurements are taken with a quantum meter or spectroradiometer and are measured in micromoles per meter squared per second (umol/m2/s-1)

*When choosing a lights by PAR measurements we are looking for a PPFD of 510 umol/m2/s-1 or more across the entire canopy for optimal flowering results, less will still work but not at optimal levels for best results

*Having a 4'x4' grid with PAR measurements at different heights is the best way to judge a plants actual optimal footprint/coverage area based on plant type and photoperiod. Also aids with hanging height and blending of multiple panels/lights.
 

Bountykiller420

Well-Known Member
this woulda greatly helped me at the start of my grow, seeing as the other data i was going off of was just speculation and what the Original Poster didnt tell you is those numbers he was giving you are with co2 supplementation, and if not for you guys and @Bosgrower telling me to raise those lights i think my girls would be dead right now or really really hurting, i was looking for a min/max ppfd/dli rating without co2, even at around 30 DLI my plants were still hurting, dropped back to 25 DLI 300 PPFD light 28" away atm, check em tomorrow and see if they bounced back a little more, thanks everyone for all the help
 

HideousPenguinBoy

Well-Known Member
Wow, everyone is building tonight. I hung up the panda film and I hung and wired up my COB rig, with my drivers mounted on a wall outside the tent. One half works fine, but the other... womp womp. Lights go for 5 minutes. Then they turn off. After I unplug it, it stays off for 2 second and then blinks at full strength for half a second. I checked for shorts (but that would do something right at the on switch). I ran a fan on the heatsinks, also with no change because heat. If you have driver experience, please, what the hell is going on?
 
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