New grow... could use some help

coreywebster · May 7, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ok I can get a better idea of the ambient temps and extreme summer temps when I'm home in a couple hours, I ended up buying 2 of the 65w kits since they were ready to go and it said they were good for a 2x1 area which is why I got 2, also have another light and some cfls I thought I could supplement anything I'm missing with anyways. Was curious what your opinion is about 4000k or 3000k? Can I flower with either? Just realized both those lights I got are 4000k

Cool. So you got enough QBs to light half your space? Plus some supplemental cfls.

I just finished first flower run with 4k, my other boards are 3k.

This is a week or two before chop.

Not done that strain before so i cant say if 4k is better or worse but the buds were frosty and rock hard.

coreywebster · May 7, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ok I can get a better idea of the ambient temps and extreme summer temps when I'm home in a couple hours

Calculating the airflow required to maintain a stable temperature, and so determine the size of fan needed, is surprisingly simple.

It boils down to CFM = 3.16 x Watts / DT(°F)

Watts is the lighting power (and any other 'hot' things in the grow space) in Watts.
DT is the allowable temperature rise within the enclosure (i.e. desired temperature minus ambient temperature) in °F.

So, to work out the size of fan required (in CFM) simply plug your lighting Wattage into the equation along with the DT value.

An example is:
Ambient temerature = 20 °C
Target temperature of the enclosure = 25 °C
DT in °C = 25 - 20 = 5
DT in °F = 5 x (9 / 5) = 9
Lighting Wattage = 250 Watts

Plugging these values into the equation gives:

CFM = 3.16 x 250 / 9 = 87.77

This represents the actual throughput required but it doesn't take account of the static pressure necessary to overcome the system impedance (how hard the fan has to suck or blow). But for a free-air system with no ducting or filters it should be fairly accurate.

beginner420 · May 7, 2019

coreywebster said:
Calculating the airflow required to maintain a stable temperature, and so determine the size of fan needed, is surprisingly simple.

It boils down to CFM = 3.16 x Watts / DT(°F)

Watts is the lighting power (and any other 'hot' things in the grow space) in Watts.
DT is the allowable temperature rise within the enclosure (i.e. desired temperature minus ambient temperature) in °F.

So, to work out the size of fan required (in CFM) simply plug your lighting Wattage into the equation along with the DT value.

An example is:
Ambient temerature = 20 °C
Target temperature of the enclosure = 25 °C
DT in °C = 25 - 20 = 5
DT in °F = 5 x (9 / 5) = 9
Lighting Wattage = 250 Watts

Plugging these values into the equation gives:

CFM = 3.16 x 250 / 9 = 87.77

This represents the actual throughput required but it doesn't take account of the static pressure necessary to overcome the system impedance (how hard the fan has to suck or blow). But for a free-air system with no ducting or filters it should be fairly accurate.

Ok that formula is pretty simple thanks for that I think I'll be able to figure if out on my own now. Well I got 2 of the lights that say they are good for 2x1 so 2 should be good for my whole 4x2 space shouldn't it? Or do I need to account for the 6ft vertical height as well?

coreywebster · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ok that formula is pretty simple thanks for that I think I'll be able to figure if out on my own now. Well I got 2 of the lights that say they are good for 2x1 so 2 should be good for my whole 4x2 space shouldn't it? Or do I need to account for the 6ft vertical height as well?

Unfortunately your adding up is a bit off.
Two kits that each cover 2x1 will cover 2x2 or 4x1 not 4x2.
Think of it as square feet instead.
2x1 is 2square feet. times two kits is 4 square feet. You have a 2x4 tent which is 8 square feet.

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

coreywebster said:
Unfortunately your adding up is a bit off.
Two kits that each cover 2x1 will cover 2x2 or 4x1 not 4x2.
Think of it as square feet instead.
2x1 is 2square feet. times two kits is 4 square feet. You have a 2x4 tent which is 8 square feet.

Ok got you so I would need 2 more of the lights I already ordered? Or one of the lights that covers more area

coreywebster · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ok got you so I would need 2 more of the lights I already ordered? Or one of the lights that covers more area

Yeah unfortunately so.

If it were me I would go for either 2 of the 135w kits or one of the 260w kits. After that my next choice in order of preference would be 2 of the HLG100 v2

All those options would light up a 2x4 space and should be cheaper and better performing than 4 of the QB65s which I think is what you have bought.

The most cost effective solution would be
A 4 pack of these for $132
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb132-quantum-board

And one of these drivers
https://www.findchips.com/search/HLG-240H-C1750 ($60)

A bit of aluminium L shape for a frame.

Total cost should be $200-$220.

Hardest part would be assembling a basic frame which is not at all difficult.

Obviously im assuming you have not received your order yet and could possibly cancel the purchase.

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

coreywebster said:
Yeah unfortunately so.

If it were me I would go for either 2 of the 135w kits or one of the 260w kits. After that my next choice in order of preference would be 2 of the HLG100 v2

All those options would light up a 2x4 space and should be cheaper and better performing than 4 of the QB65s which I think is what you have bought.

The most cost effective solution would be
A 4 pack of these for $132
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb132-quantum-board

And one of these drivers
https://www.findchips.com/search/HLG-240H-C1750 ($60)

A bit of aluminium L shape for a frame.

Total cost should be $200-$220.

Hardest part would be assembling a basic frame which is not at all difficult.

Obviously im assuming you have not received your order yet and could possibly cancel the purchase.

Ya tough thing is the QB65s are already in my city since the hlg Canada warehouse is located a couple hours away from me

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ya tough thing is the QB65s are already in my city since the hlg Canada warehouse is located a couple hours away from me

I wonder if maybe I could return the 2 QB65'S and then buy the 2 QB100's

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

coreywebster said:
Yeah unfortunately so.

If it were me I would go for either 2 of the 135w kits or one of the 260w kits. After that my next choice in order of preference would be 2 of the HLG100 v2

All those options would light up a 2x4 space and should be cheaper and better performing than 4 of the QB65s which I think is what you have bought.

The most cost effective solution would be
A 4 pack of these for $132
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb132-quantum-board

And one of these drivers
https://www.findchips.com/search/HLG-240H-C1750 ($60)

A bit of aluminium L shape for a frame.

Total cost should be $200-$220.

Hardest part would be assembling a basic frame which is not at all difficult.

Obviously im assuming you have not received your order yet and could possibly cancel the purchase.

If I'm able to return the QB65's would you recommend getting the 4000k QB100 or the 3000k? Or should I get one of each?

coreywebster · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
I wonder if maybe I could return the 2 QB65'S and then buy the 2 QB100's

Its worth checking. Did you buy direct from HLG or from amazon?
If not then just add a HLG100 to what you have. Just costing you a bit more in the long run.

The 4k veg great and flower well. The 3k flowers great but I have not vegged with them.
From what I have seen from others both perform great overall. There may be slight differences, 3k may have the advantage in flower and 4k may have advantage in veg. Seeing what my 4k did in flower I would go for that as the safe bet.
I would rather have tighter internodes in veg than not.

coreywebster · May 8, 2019

Of course there is nothing making you get this extra light right now. You could always wait and work with half your tent space.

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

coreywebster said:
Of course there is nothing making you get this extra light right now. You could always wait and work with half your tent space.

Ya I might just end up waiting a bit, i could even veg my plants for a month or so and before I'm ready to flower I can order another light since it only took a day for them to ship it to me

RStone77 · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
I'm basically brand new to this but I was thinking of starting out with a gorilla grow tent 2'x2.5' is the size I was gonna get and the viparspectra 450w was the light I was gonna get. Not sure about ventilation as I've heard that this light runs very cool and won't need much venting. Was thinking of doing either soil or DWC or maybe 1 plant in each medium. I was thinking 2 plants to start as I'm not sure how many i should fit into that space. I'm also not quite sure on the strain i wanna start with, or if I wanna do seeds or clones from someone I know. Any help or advice is appreciated thank you

That's a perfect personal use grow area. Yes, you need to move air. A couple of small 4" inline's will do perfectly - one for intake, one for exhaust.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inch-Inline-Ventilation-Blower/dp/B01M7S46YZ/ref=pd_cp_86_4?pd_rd_w=4jYB2&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=CPKFQF0BPRMQCWQSAGNN&pd_rd_r=13714f8e-71d0-11e9-b3a7-ed1ea68e8e78&pd_rd_wg=6GiCH&pd_rd_i=B01M7S46YZ&psc=1&refRID=CPKFQF0BPRMQCWQSAGNN

Add on a carbon filter if you are worried about the smell.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Australia-Charcoal-Pre-filter-Reversible/dp/B01DXYMBU6/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=carbon+filter&qid=1557347327&s=hi&sr=1-7

Small grow area and first time grower - I'd recommend starting with some tough autoflowering strains - some short ones. You can get 2 - 4 plants in that tent. If you start with some auto's you don't really have to do much other than watering it. Some fresh Happy frog soil will mostly feed some small autos from start to finish - I'd recommend MAYBE one additional feeding a 1 to 1 1/2 months in.

Bubba Cheese Auto is short and fast - I generally harvest around 50 days (from seed).

https://www.gyo.green/emerald-triangle-bubba-cheese-auto-auto-emd-bbc-fa.html

The most recent auto I bought (one of the current strains I'm trying) was the Speed Bud Auto - It's been fast to break soil and so far is growing as expected. Supposed to be another pretty quick one.

https://www.gyo.green/female-seeds-speed-bud-auto-auto-fem-asb-fa.html

A super short and cheap strain is the Lowryder. Super short, quick to flower. Breeder claims 15", but mine always seemed to grow around 25".

https://www.gyo.green/vision-seeds-lowryder-auto-vis-low-fa.html

For a beginner - any of the above strains should produce 1 - 2 ounces a plant for you in just a matter of a few months and they're near impossible to screw up. And doing some quick tough autos will allow you to get used to proper watering, etc.. before you get into photoperiod strains that take a lot more time (more time for you to screw it up) and require you to change lighting schedules, etc... Those photoperiod strains are going to produce a shit load more bud for you but IMO, better to start with some super easy quick and short lower yielding plants then to go for the larger yielding plants that you are more likely to screw up. Better to have an ounce or two off an auto in a few months than find out you got nothing 4 months later because you killed your photoperiod strain. Start simple.

beginner420 · May 8, 2019

RStone77 said:
That's a perfect personal use grow area. Yes, you need to move air. A couple of small 4" inline's will do perfectly - one for intake, one for exhaust.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inch-Inline-Ventilation-Blower/dp/B01M7S46YZ/ref=pd_cp_86_4?pd_rd_w=4jYB2&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=CPKFQF0BPRMQCWQSAGNN&pd_rd_r=13714f8e-71d0-11e9-b3a7-ed1ea68e8e78&pd_rd_wg=6GiCH&pd_rd_i=B01M7S46YZ&psc=1&refRID=CPKFQF0BPRMQCWQSAGNN

Add on a carbon filter if you are worried about the smell.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Australia-Charcoal-Pre-filter-Reversible/dp/B01DXYMBU6/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=carbon+filter&qid=1557347327&s=hi&sr=1-7

Small grow area and first time grower - I'd recommend starting with some tough autoflowering strains - some short ones. You can get 2 - 4 plants in that tent. If you start with some auto's you don't really have to do much other than watering it. Some fresh Happy frog soil will mostly feed some small autos from start to finish - I'd recommend MAYBE one additional feeding a 1 to 1 1/2 months in.

Bubba Cheese Auto is short and fast - I generally harvest around 50 days (from seed).

https://www.gyo.green/emerald-triangle-bubba-cheese-auto-auto-emd-bbc-fa.html

The most recent auto I bought (one of the current strains I'm trying) was the Speed Bud Auto - It's been fast to break soil and so far is growing as expected. Supposed to be another pretty quick one.

https://www.gyo.green/female-seeds-speed-bud-auto-auto-fem-asb-fa.html

A super short and cheap strain is the Lowryder. Super short, quick to flower. Breeder claims 15", but mine always seemed to grow around 25".

https://www.gyo.green/vision-seeds-lowryder-auto-vis-low-fa.html

For a beginner - any of the above strains should produce 1 - 2 ounces a plant for you in just a matter of a few months and they're near impossible to screw up. And doing some quick tough autos will allow you to get used to proper watering, etc.. before you get into photoperiod strains that take a lot more time (more time for you to screw it up) and require you to change lighting schedules, etc... Those photoperiod strains are going to produce a shit load more bud for you but IMO, better to start with some super easy quick and short lower yielding plants then to go for the larger yielding plants that you are more likely to screw up. Better to have an ounce or two off an auto in a few months than find out you got nothing 4 months later because you killed your photoperiod strain. Start simple.

I appreciate your reply man seems like you put some thought into it, I personally had a bad experience with autoflowers once before where none of the seeds I got ever sprouted, can you maybe recommend a company you've gotten seeds from and had them sprout?

RStone77 · May 8, 2019

beginner420 said:
I appreciate your reply man seems like you put some thought into it, I personally had a bad experience with autoflowers once before where none of the seeds I got ever sprouted, can you maybe recommend a company you've gotten seeds from and had them sprout?

Yeah, of course. I pretty much get all my seeds from two places now:

GYO (https://www.gyo.green/)

and

Attitude (https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/)

I used to also use Herbies (https://www.herbiesheadshop.com/) , but recently I started loosing packages at customs coming from them - so I won't buy from them until they update their shipping methods. As long as your package doesn't come through Chicago ISC, Herbie's shipping should be just fine.

To date, I've never received bad seeds from any of the above seed banks. I've had a 100% germination rate. But I also don't do all that soak them in water and paper towel nonsense - as I'm not in the 2nd grade (and it's a good way to screw up your seeds/grow). If you plant direct in the soil you, it'll probably take 4-7 days to pop and you should keep the soil moist (just be careful watering if you use soil, you don't want to cause the seed to sink deeper!) but I personally prefer seed starters (which I always use) that will get them to pop in 1-3 days. I don't use any of this stuff that is marketed special for cannabis - don't buy into the marketing. I use the jiffy ones and get them right from walmart for $5 - $10 bucks depending on the number...so super cheap.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ferry-Morse-jiffy-J425-All-In-One-Greenhouse-25/1762496

beginner420 · May 11, 2019

RStone77 said:
Yeah, of course. I pretty much get all my seeds from two places now:

GYO (https://www.gyo.green/)

and

Attitude (https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/)

I used to also use Herbies (https://www.herbiesheadshop.com/) , but recently I started loosing packages at customs coming from them - so I won't buy from them until they update their shipping methods. As long as your package doesn't come through Chicago ISC, Herbie's shipping should be just fine.

To date, I've never received bad seeds from any of the above seed banks. I've had a 100% germination rate. But I also don't do all that soak them in water and paper towel nonsense - as I'm not in the 2nd grade (and it's a good way to screw up your seeds/grow). If you plant direct in the soil you, it'll probably take 4-7 days to pop and you should keep the soil moist (just be careful watering if you use soil, you don't want to cause the seed to sink deeper!) but I personally prefer seed starters (which I always use) that will get them to pop in 1-3 days. I don't use any of this stuff that is marketed special for cannabis - don't buy into the marketing. I use the jiffy ones and get them right from walmart for $5 - $10 bucks depending on the number...so super cheap.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ferry-Morse-jiffy-J425-All-In-One-Greenhouse-25/1762496

Ok i'm definitely gonna consider trying some autoflowers in the future, but I had already ordered my seeds a couple days before your first post but wanted your advice. I actually ordered from attitude seed bank myself and the 4 strains i got were barneys farm LSD, DNA Genetics Lemon OG kush, Big buddha Blue Cheese and Pineapple express #2 from G13 Labs, from what i looked up on them they are all relatively easy to grow for beginners and are pretty good yielding. AIso I ended up getting a 2x4x6'11 tent as it fits my space perfectly. I ordered 1 seed of each just to try a couple different strains. Was also wondering about if i should plant straight into a 5 gallon pot or something smaller to start then transplant later?

RStone77 · May 12, 2019

I use the Jiffy seed starters:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ferry-Morse-jiffy-J425-All-In-One-Greenhouse-25/1762496

And then I transplant to it's FINAL container after about a week (assuming they popped) - I don't do this multiple transplanting thing that people do. Basically, this guy pretty much does what I do:

Except that I actually rip the netting off the pellet if the roots haven't broken through them yet. If the roots have broken through already, I'll leave them on.

I actually have a Pineapple express #2 in the box right now. It's about 20" tall at the moment - after approx 1 month - and has been a no-issues plant at this point. It's sitting in a fresh bit of Happy Frog and hasn't needed any additional feeding at this point. It's actually a pretty perfect looking plant right now. I only plan on letting it grow to about 30" before I force it to flower. It should still grow another 30" or so during the flowering stage but I have no intentions of letting this thing get to be 8 feet tall LOL

So keep that in mind with your photoperiod strains - you can pretty much force them to flower whenever you want - and they'll still grow another 75 - 120% taller during flowering (assuming you weren't already close their max size - I would say on average, photoperiods that I've grown have doubled in size after I force an early flowering). That PE#2 you have can get taller than 8 feet and you only got 6'11" to work with; and you don't want the plant getting too close to your lights as you'll just start burning the leaves and buds. Personally, I don't let my plants get closer than 20" to my lights and prefer to keep them 30" away. There are obviously other methods of controlling your plant height but, for the most part, I control it by forcing it into the flowering stage when it's about half the size I want it (unless its normal max height is acceptable to me; or it's an autoflowering strain, in which case I have no control over it).

Obviously, if you want the largest harvest you would let it veg until it's done growing.

If I was only working with 6'11" ... I would approach my grows as if I had 5' of usable grow space and plan accordingly.

beginner420 · May 12, 2019

RStone77 said:
I use the Jiffy seed starters:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ferry-Morse-jiffy-J425-All-In-One-Greenhouse-25/1762496

And then I transplant to it's FINAL container after about a week (assuming they popped) - I don't do this multiple transplanting thing that people do. Basically, this guy pretty much does what I do:

Except that I actually rip the netting off the pellet if the roots haven't broken through them yet. If the roots have broken through already, I'll leave them on.

I actually have a Pineapple express #2 in the box right now. It's about 20" tall at the moment - after approx 1 month - and has been a no-issues plant at this point. It's sitting in a fresh bit of Happy Frog and hasn't needed any additional feeding at this point. It's actually a pretty perfect looking plant right now. I only plan on letting it grow to about 30" before I force it to flower. It should still grow another 30" or so during the flowering stage but I have no intentions of letting this thing get to be 8 feet tall LOL

So keep that in mind with your photoperiod strains - you can pretty much force them to flower whenever you want - and they'll still grow another 75 - 120% taller during flowering (assuming you weren't already close their max size - I would say on average, photoperiods that I've grown have doubled in size after I force an early flowering). That PE#2 you have can get taller than 8 feet and you only got 6'11" to work with; and you don't want the plant getting too close to your lights as you'll just start burning the leaves and buds. Personally, I don't let my plants get closer than 20" to my lights and prefer to keep them 30" away. There are obviously other methods of controlling your plant height but, for the most part, I control it by forcing it into the flowering stage when it's about half the size I want it (unless its normal max height is acceptable to me; or it's an autoflowering strain, in which case I have no control over it).

Obviously, if you want the largest harvest you would let it veg until it's done growing.

If I was only working with 6'11" ... I would approach my grows as if I had 5' of usable grow space and plan accordingly.

Ok cool I just bought some of those Jiffy pellets today, and thanks for the advice on the pineapple express #2 as i did not know it could get that high. I guess ill flower it when it is about 2 ft tall. I wonder if maybe i should start my other strains a little bit ahead of this one to let them grow a bit first so all plants are are around the same size?

RStone77 · May 13, 2019

beginner420 said:
Ok cool I just bought some of those Jiffy pellets today, and thanks for the advice on the pineapple express #2 as i did not know it could get that high. I guess ill flower it when it is about 2 ft tall. I wonder if maybe i should start my other strains a little bit ahead of this one to let them grow a bit first so all plants are are around the same size?

You bet man, happy to help. Personally, I start all mine at the same time every time. If they're going in the box, they're going in together. And about a week or so before I am ready to harvest the last plant from the box, I'll drop the next round of seeds in the Jiffys - so that they're ready to transplant when the box is empty.

I also run autoflowers on a 24/0 light schedule from start to finish. And I run photoperiods on a 24/0 schedule until I'm ready to flower them and then drop them to the 12/12. If I'm going to clone, I'll do that right before I swap to 12/12. If anyone ever tells you that your plant needs some "down time" or "dark time", immediately ignore anything else they say LOL. The only benefit you're going to get from running less than 24/0 is a smaller electric bill. And for a small personal grow space, you won't even notice.

beginner420 · May 26, 2019

coreywebster said:
Of course there is nothing making you get this extra light right now. You could always wait and work with half your tent space.

RStone77 said:
You bet man, happy to help. Personally, I start all mine at the same time every time. If they're going in the box, they're going in together. And about a week or so before I am ready to harvest the last plant from the box, I'll drop the next round of seeds in the Jiffys - so that they're ready to transplant when the box is empty.

I also run autoflowers on a 24/0 light schedule from start to finish. And I run photoperiods on a 24/0 schedule until I'm ready to flower them and then drop them to the 12/12. If I'm going to clone, I'll do that right before I swap to 12/12. If anyone ever tells you that your plant needs some "down time" or "dark time", immediately ignore anything else they say LOL. The only benefit you're going to get from running less than 24/0 is a smaller electric bill. And for a small personal grow space, you won't even notice.

I got it all up and running now, seedlings are looking healthy from what i can tell. I bought this CO2 exhale bag and was wondering when i should introduce it to the plants?

New grow... could use some help

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