New grow problem

I think the issues you are having are all related to one thing: aeration. Your mix looks a bit heavy to me. Adding in some perlite could help with drainage and get more O2 to the roots. Droop is almost always from too much or too little moisture and a heavy organic diy mix usually requires aeration in the form of perlite; lava rocks are comparatively much heavier. It may seem like you are over/under watering when it could actually be just bad drainage.
Do this test: next time you water dump it in very fast. If it doesn’t run right through and instead puddles up and runs over the sides it’s possible you’ve got bad drainage. Easy fix is to add a bunch of perlite to the mix when you pot up to next size.
I doubt it has much at all to do with your choice of water. The droop is not due to nutrient levels but red stems could be early sign of an absorbtion issue. Consider adding some crushed oyster shell along with perlite to help buffer the ph. I also see this plant is real stretched out. A lighting upgrade could help get tighter nodal spacing.

Richard Drysift said:

I think the issues you are having are all related to one thing: aeration. Your mix looks a bit heavy to me. Adding in some perlite could help with drainage and get more O2 to the roots. Droop is almost always from too much or too little moisture and a heavy organic diy mix usually requires aeration in the form of perlite; lava rocks are comparatively much heavier. It may seem like you are over/under watering when it could actually be just bad drainage.
Do this test: next time you water dump it in very fast. If it doesn’t run right through and instead puddles up and runs over the sides it’s possible you’ve got bad drainage. Easy fix is to add a bunch of perlite to the mix when you pot up to next size.
I doubt it has much at all to do with your choice of water. The droop is not due to nutrient levels but red stems could be early sign of an absorbtion issue. Consider adding some crushed oyster shell along with perlite to help buffer the ph. I also see this plant is real stretched out. A lighting upgrade could help get tighter nodal spacing.

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Great feed back! I don’t think I have problem with aeration bc when soil it wet water flows right throw. However with the light, ive been trying to figure out if mine are good enough, or if they are close enough? Mayb need to be closer? Any suggestions? I’m using 2 cob shop.net lights, any feed back on them or suggestions on flower light would be great! I’ve read a lot about oyster shell and there seem to be no replacement. So I think I’ll have to get some soon!

No idea about cob lighting; still an old school HID guy myself. Oyster shell is great for buffering ph at the root zone. Yeah when wet it flows through but how about when it is fairly dry? How long do you go between waterings?

Richard Drysift said:

No idea about cob lighting; still an old school HID guy myself. Oyster shell is great for buffering ph at the root zone. Yeah when wet it flows through but how about when it is fairly dry? How long do you go between waterings?

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You gotta be a little careful with oyster shell flour since it will raise the pH, and if you already have lots of Ca it will just raise it more. I've had to cut out some of the high Ca amendments since my well water already has plenty in it. I always thought pH didn't matter in organic soil, but that's not entirely true. The microbes can only do so much I've learned.

dank.smoke said:

Great feed back! I don’t think I have problem with aeration bc when soil it wet water flows right throw. However with the light, ive been trying to figure out if mine are good enough, or if they are close enough? Mayb need to be closer? Any suggestions? I’m using 2 cob shop.net lights, any feed back on them or suggestions on flower light would be great! I’ve read a lot about oyster shell and there seem to be no replacement. So I think I’ll have to get some soon!

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I don't know how high you have your lights now, but I like to start them higher with LED's and them slowly acclimate the plants to handle more. It just takes a little time to figure out how much they want. A cellphone LUX app also helps to give me an idea of appropriately how much light they each want.

Dolomidic lime will also raise the pH, and would also provide more Mg. I have never added any to my no-till, but it works similar to oyster shell flour.

Richard Drysift said:

No idea about cob lighting; still an old school HID guy myself. Oyster shell is great for buffering ph at the root zone. Yeah when wet it flows through but how about when it is fairly dry? How long do you go between waterings?

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I would say I water ever 4-5 days, soils usually stays moist. Pot is bigger than needed 7 gal

PadawanWarrior said:

You gotta be a little careful with oyster shell flour since it will raise the pH, and if you already have lots of Ca it will just raise it more. I've had to cut out some of the high Ca amendments since my well water already has plenty in it. I always thought pH didn't matter in organic soil, but that's not entirely true. The microbes can only do so much I've learned.


I don't know how high you have your lights now, but I like to start them higher with LED's and them slowly acclimate the plants to handle more. It just takes a little time to figure out how much they want. A cellphone LUX app also helps to give me an idea of appropriately how much light they each want.

Dolomidic lime will also raise the pH, and would also provide more Mg. I have never added any to my no-till, but it works similar to oyster shell flour.

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I did a diy test at home for soli ph and it showed my soil was Fairly neutral mayb a tad high. Any feed back on lights, I will provide a link. https://cobshop.net/

dank.smoke said:

I did a diy test at home for soli ph and it showed my soil was Fairly neutral mayb a tad high. Any feed back on lights, I will provide a link. https://cobshop.net/

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I'm using QB's and cmh now. The HLG QB's are definitely powerful and it took a bit for me and my plants to adjust to the high intensity. Again though, I would start them higher than normal, and lower them as the plants adjust. You'll figure out what they like if you do a little experimenting.

PadawanWarrior said:

I always thought pH didn't matter in organic soil, but that's not entirely true. The microbes can only do so much I've learned.

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ima try my best to explain this....ima pothead, so bear with me:
PH is extremely important in all grows. Monitoring PH is not needed at all in soil. (not dirt , not moss or coco, i mean soil) Living , healthy soil. When re-using old mixes , you may check ph and add lime or another buffer... I.E. oyster shells.
All that being said , you simply cannot change the PH of a container in a couple of months. A simple top dressing can help SLOWLY but it wont change the whole ph of the pot in just a couple of months.
Adding ph up or down to soil is a complete waste of time and money an usually ends up in a shitty product that taste like ph up. The ph charts are correct but we cannot alter the ph in soil that easy. So the idea of feeding with 5.8 today and 6.3 tomorrow simply will not work. That plant cannot uptake the food any different with or without the ph up an down.
Feed your soil and keep it healthy an moist and you will never see a "ph problem". Its ALWAYS something else....its never the ph.
I never seen a yellow leaf until i started on the ph kick..... finally learned and read an read some more , threw ALL the meters in the trash and aint seen a yellow leaf since. (unless i want um yellow)


soil

3 decades later and it still aint easy to water the exact right amount. overwatering is not just a rookie mistake .....over an under watering is a general problem that most of us are still learning.

yeah i know that, but he already added crab to his dirt ergo the ca part.

getogrow said:

ima try my best to explain this....ima pothead, so bear with me:
PH is extremely important in all grows. Monitoring PH is not needed at all in soil. (not dirt , not moss or coco, i mean soil) Living , healthy soil. When re-using old mixes , you may check ph and add lime or another buffer... I.E. oyster shells.
All that being said , you simply cannot change the PH of a container in a couple of months. A simple top dressing can help SLOWLY but it wont change the whole ph of the pot in just a couple of months.
Adding ph up or down to soil is a complete waste of time and money an usually ends up in a shitty product that taste like ph up. The ph charts are correct but we cannot alter the ph in soil that easy. So the idea of feeding with 5.8 today and 6.3 tomorrow simply will not work. That plant cannot uptake the food any different with or without the ph up an down.
Feed your soil and keep it healthy an moist and you will never see a "ph problem". Its ALWAYS something else....its never the ph.
I never seen a yellow leaf until i started on the ph kick..... finally learned and read an read some more , threw ALL the meters in the trash and aint seen a yellow leaf since. (unless i want um yellow)


soil

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You are free to believe whatever you want, lol.

Any suggestions on how I should adjust my recipe for next run? Or jus base it on what I feel is missing this grow?

PadawanWarrior said:

You are free to believe whatever you want, lol.

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just like your free to skip over all the good reads for the internet reads. have fun sir.

dank.smoke said:

Any suggestions on how I should adjust my recipe for next run? Or jus base it on what I feel is missing this grow?

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yes , just base it off what you feel is missing. your mix looks good. hows the girls looking ?

getogrow said:

yes , just base it off what you feel is missing. your mix looks good. hows the girls looking ?

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Thanks man will do, and they are looking pretty good besides the leaves still 2 different shades of green. Same problem from before with out the drooping but doesn’t seem to be effecting them much but I’m new so lol lights are off atm but will post one later forsure

all the issues we are coming up with , dont seem to match your actual issue. i would not worry about the different shades of green unless you KNOW it aint right.

getogrow said:

all the issues we are coming up with , dont seem to match your actual issue. i would not worry about the different shades of green unless you KNOW it aint right.

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Yea I’ll jus see how it goes but I added 2 pics of the plant that we’ve been talking about and a little guy I throw in flower to experiment.

PadawanWarrior said:

You gotta be a little careful with oyster shell flour since it will raise the pH, and if you already have lots of Ca it will just raise it more. I've had to cut out some of the high Ca amendments since my well water already has plenty in it. I always thought pH didn't matter in organic soil, but that's not entirely true. The microbes can only do so much I've learned.


I don't know how high you have your lights now, but I like to start them higher with LED's and them slowly acclimate the plants to handle more. It just takes a little time to figure out how much they want. A cellphone LUX app also helps to give me an idea of appropriately how much light they each want.

Dolomidic lime will also raise the pH, and would also provide more Mg. I have never added any to my no-till, but it works similar to oyster shell flour.

Click to expand...

What’s cool about oyster shell is it’s kinda chunky I it breaks down very slowly whereas D-lime is so fine it’s almost water soluble. I add the oyster shell directly into the bottom layer of each final size container; maybe just a half a handful and usually in conjunction with a fertilizer like chix shit (which is rather hot btw) to help bring ph up slightly. Oyster shell does raise ph but only affects the soil that is in close proximity to it. D-lime can be distributed more evenly through the entire container; affecting ph as a whole. With d-lime, oyster shell, and all the eggshells I put in the worm bin have not had to give cal/mag in soluble form for years.

dank.smoke said:

I would say I water ever 4-5 days, soils usually stays moist. Pot is bigger than needed 7 gal

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Try watering more often but with less water. Never let it run all the way through to the bottom. I find it’s better to water lightly every other day than it is to drown the root zone every 4-5 days. Adding perlite to your mix when you can would benefit aeration; if you need more moisture retention just add vermiculite.

dank.smoke said:

Great feed back! I don’t think I have problem with aeration bc when soil it wet water flows right throw. However with the light, ive been trying to figure out if mine are good enough, or if they are close enough? Mayb need to be closer? Any suggestions? I’m using 2 cob shop.net lights, any feed back on them or suggestions on flower light would be great! I’ve read a lot about oyster shell and there seem to be no replacement. So I think I’ll have to get some soon!

Click to expand...

The replacement sits in an egg carton in your fridge. Oyster shell is the equivalent of egg shells. Save your money, save your egg shells and put them in a blender with some water and grind them. Oyster shell is 38% calcium carbonate, egg shell is 39% so the application rate is the same.

If your concerned about ph with adding calcium in the form of egg shells or oyster shells then go with gypsum. Apply at a rate of 1/2 cup per 28 litres. This will add sulfur as well. If your using coco bump up to 1 cup for every 28 litres.

When making a soil mix like the ones posted online ph is highly important. These mixes are not a true soil they are a hybrid of soil and inert media leaning heavily towards the inert media. Inert media is coco, peat, aeration. Soil is actual dirt. The way I go about determining ph is by calculating how much actual soil you have in your mix.

Let's say the optimum ph of inert growing media is 5.9 while soil is 6.5 for cannabis (.a difference of 0.6 in ph). If your mix is 30% soil then its going to lean more towards a ph of 5.9. To figure out take 30% of 0.6 which is 0.3x0.6=0.18. This means you should aim for the ph to be 5.9+0.18 = 6.08 or 6.1 is your target.

Easiest way to adjust ph of your mix is to cut it with peat. If you want more calcium like dolomitic lime or oyster/egg then use more peat to offset.

As an experiment I used two mixes, the only thing I changed was the peat content to change the ph. Supersoil at a ph of 6.65 the plants struggled and had bad nute lockout. The same supersoil with more peat at a ph of 6.1 were healthy and vigorous.

If you ever made subcool soil recipe it came out at 6.3.

Richard Drysift said:

What’s cool about oyster shell is it’s kinda chunky I it breaks down very slowly whereas D-lime is so fine it’s almost water soluble. I add the oyster shell directly into the bottom layer of each final size container; maybe just a half a handful and usually in conjunction with a fertilizer like chix shit (which is rather hot btw) to help bring ph up slightly. Oyster shell does raise ph but only affects the soil that is in close proximity to it. D-lime can be distributed more evenly through the entire container; affecting ph as a whole. With d-lime, oyster shell, and all the eggshells I put in the worm bin have not had to give cal/mag in soluble form for years.

Try watering more often but with less water. Never let it run all the way through to the bottom. I find it’s better to water lightly every other day than it is to drown the root zone every 4-5 days. Adding perlite to your mix when you can would benefit aeration; if you need more moisture retention just add vermiculite.

Click to expand...

I've been using oyster shell flour which is pretty fine. I mixed it all through the soil when I mixed up my no-till soil so it's evenly distributed. I also used a bunch of dry amendments that contain lots of Ca. Then add in the 7.5 pH well water I'm using that also has Ca, and my pH slowly raised. I've been getting it back on track slowly, by not adding more Ca amendments, and watering with Neptune's Harvest or Earth Juice to get the pH around 6.5. I've also been using citric acid sometimes which supposedly binds with the Ca a bit so it isn't as available or can be flushed out, don't quote me on that though, lol. I'm still really just trying to figure out the whole organic no-till thing, but am slowly learning.