New grow set-up

6 Juicy Fruit Clones/6 LA confidential Clones, probably 1 week left to pot these.

Veg Area


Set-up

Hi all been lurking the forums a bit and learning a lot from them. This is my first post. This will be my first time grow fully supported by a friend who has been going for a while. I've been doing most of the design myself because while my friend has a lot of success, I know I'm way better at homework than he is, and I am going for a more efficient operation than him, based mostly on information I've found researching this and other forums. I do know that there is no substitute for experience and will be turning to him alot I'm sure through the course of this. This will be a legal medical grow supporting my friend's current operation.

Currently my veg and clone room are done and I have 12 clones almost rooted. I have built a DIY aero-cloner i learned to make on this site, and look forward to using it in the future, though I plan to grow in soil. Following my friends system of growing, because he has alot of experience and seems to grow quite effectively, he does veg for approx 7-9 weeks, and then flowers 7-9 weeks. I beleive his yield is approx .5-1 lb per plant. The strains we use are not known for particularly good yields, but faster flowering and ease of growing even for beginners. I have not fully researched everything, ill be following my friend's nutrient and soil routines. I got a cheap PH tester/adjuster kit for water. My tap water is around 7, I leave it out for a day before then PH it down a bit to closer to 6. I currently do not have the tools to test stuff like PPM which I dont fully understand yet, but hoping it won't cause a problem. I figure I'll just err on the side of using less nutes in the beginning to be safe.

I'm not 100 percent sold on my ventilation layout as I'm worried about odors. Trying to keep them non-existent.

I've priced out my major flower room purchases (ballasts/fans/hoods/bulbs/lighting controller) and I'm close to reaching my budget limit. I may have a little wiggle room for dehum/AC unit if necessary.

I couldn't easily get drywall down there so my cinder block walls are already flat white painted and for the studs and ceiling I put silver bubble packing type insulation. I was able to get cheap paneling cut in 4x4 sheets that I will put on the outside of my exposed studs for appearance purposes. I ran many outlets all at 20 amps, with 4 plugs per cuircuit. This was my first time doing electricity, and I did GFCI outlets because it was code (not that code is a huge concern for me). It did turn out that my E-ballast for my veg kept tripping my GFCI well under load, so I swapped that for a normal 20a outlet. I did 1 50 amp dryer outlet I plan to put my flowering lights and fans on using most likely a Titan Helios 12 controller or similar, with a basic timer.

The stand alone carbon filter will be on a 2 hour daylight cycle and constant during dark. It will also be wired to a thermostat that will kick it on if temps get too high.

I understand the controversy of using my hot water heater for co2 however I'm going to take as much precaution as possible. I have a newer house with hard wired smoke detectors one in each bedroom and one in each other main area including the basement just outside the grow. I'm going to convert all of these to combo smoke/CO detectors. I'm also going to put 2 battery powered CO detectors in my grow, 1 for flower 1 for veg. Haven't decided exactly how I'm going to measure my co2 I might just start with a basic thermometer with co2 measuring capability until I clear some more cash. I'll wire a timer to regulate the fan/backdraft damper as best I can during daylight hours. Ultimately I'll want it fully regulated with a controller. Obviously my venting to optimize my CO2 usage isnt great, but since its free anyway not too worried about wasting it. I'll dial it in better as I get some more experience as to how well it works. My other CO2 option would be propane, however, I'm worried about heat, and just as much CO risk. I'm afraid to mess with my natural gas line. I could do tanks, but I do not have an attached garage, and I don't want to draw attention by lugging tanks in and out all the time. 20 lb tanks in a duffle bag or something would be too impractical I assume I would be changing them out a couple times a week.

The only way I could work it was have my veg room through my flower room. I have the doorway sealed with panda film that is sealed with magnets. It's light and air proof as far as I can tell so far. Through holes in the panda film are my passive intake and 8" exhaust hose. If ever have to get in during dark hours I have a switch right inside the flower room door connected to 2 green party bulbs.

Because of space limitation as well as odor control, I plan to either tarp, or box off an area of my flower room for my drying/curing with necessary climate control in that area. My friend uses a 2 week air cure process of hanging then to buckets/jars/vacuum sealed bags. I plan to do what he's doing unless I learn something better.

While my friend is and will continue to be super helpful, he isn't always available, and I have grown to depend on the knowledge of people on this site alot so far through my building and designing. Light proofing and wiring is all I have done in the flower room so looking for any type of advice people have for changes, as well as any general advice. Ideally better odor control methods, or more efficient ways to run things. Also let me know if I left out any important details that could help people better understand what I have going on. I may even do a journal if I feel there is interest. My ultimate goal is maximizing production and efficiency, while staying as legal as possible (including under current plant limit of 24) and staying as far off the radar as possible from neighbors and house guests.

Anyone to at least say this setup sux?

Lets start with cooling, Your drawing shows that you are going to vent 5 1000 watts into your basement, and air then is taken from your basement to cool the four flower lights. So you are heating your basement and then expecting this heated air to cool your hoods. I believe you have too much power for this, each thousand watt is approx 5000 btu, so you are making 25000 btu for 12 hours a day, without venting basically any of it (outside). Thats a lot of heat. If the "cool" air going into your hood is 90 degrees, its not going to cool a whole hell of a lot, in fact will most likely help to heat the room.
Next is your fan set up for your air cooled hoods. For 4 giant hoods, corners and ducting you are only using a single 8" fan. I do not know this will be enough air flow to cool those hoods, they are gonna build some serious heat. Adding a second fan at either the far side of the hoods or even just before it exits the room would double the pressure vs the single fan and should help to pull more velocity out of the ducting through corners and hoods.
Now it looks like your passive intake (not really marked on the drawing) is going to draw from your basement, which as we have already discussed is going to have 25000 btu heating it. So here again you need to look at how hott your intake air will be, cause you will not get the room any cooler than this. Also your veg room picture of your light shows your ducting does 180 degree loop, this will restrict air flow, doesn't matter so much on this one but you need to watch this on the 4 hood set up, you need to maximize air flow for that set up.
Finally you are venting the room exhuast outside it appears, this is correct, but make sure you realize that this air that is drawing out has to come from somewhere, most likely upstairs, so this could raise your heating bill some too.

Sorry I forgot to put my intended passive intake in my drawing. I was hoping I could get away with using my basement air, exhausting high on one side, and taking in low on the other. I'm not really sure how hot to expect the basement to get. I did have the one fan that will blow carbon filtered air outside, though as i stated my passive intake is pulling in basement air to replace whats going outside. Maybe I'm not really sure what my options are for where to get air and where to send it. I was a little afraid to bring in outside air for cooling because I heard it can bring in bad molds and such. I'm nervous about what air to send outside the house, because I'm afraid of smells. I have a newer construction colonial, so I have no chimney, and nothing vents out of my roof. Everything (dryer/furnace/hotwater tank/gas fireplace) all vents through pvp pipes sticking out the side of my house. A/C is an option for me, though I was hoping to get through winter without that big expense, the device itself and the high electric bills.

In regards to the 1 fan for the 4 hoods, I was actually thinking that, I think another fan at the end, or seperating it into 2 seperate runs with 2 seperate fans was how I was gonna do that. I think you are right about my veg room venting, the air coming out the end of that pipe does seem kinda slow, I'm going to try to straighten that run.

What would be a good way to set up my ventilation, assuming this is the size grow I've commited to?

Stupid question but i am trying to design this in my head based on only your sketch, is there a door either at the top or the bottom of the stairs?

there is no door there. It goes up half way, bends 180 degrees and goes up the rest into my living room. I was thinking of putting a door at the bottom though. Also just for more clarification, my veg room is actually an area built out under my porch, so that open area in the picture below it actually leads outside. Next to the breaker box is an egress window about 3' x 4' i think.

Any other windows?
Is there currently a radon mitigation system in place?

Radon isnt an issue in this area. I have normal basement windows all around the main basement area approx every 8 feet or so? The ones that are about 2' x 1' . One of these windows is actually in my flower room. I was curious about bringing in air from this window, if its acceptable. I assume in the winter it would be ok, but would still need a summer solution. Also I've frosted all my windows with bathroom type privacy stuff. This particular window in my flower room actually opens right up to the side of my neighbors driveway, and side door. So there is a 2 car wide driveway distance + like 3 feet of grass between my house and his house. So any excess sound or anything through this window would be easily noticed by my neighbor who probably walks by this window 10x a day.

Ok, the radon fan was a hopes that some of your neighbors had 3 or 4" pvc coming out of the house for this, i believe radon is a bunch of shit, just see it as a way to put in a vent that no one will question.
I will think about this while i work on putting my damn t5 back together, and back in the room. I will let you know my thoughts tonight probably.

Just another side note, my house and the other newer constructions like it have all kind of PVC coming out the side of it, so a PVC vent wouldnt look all that suspicious except for the fact of it being new. My hot water tank vents to a 4" PVC out the side of my house, and I beleive some other stuff too. Maybe my furnace and dryer? Keep in mind the houses in my neighborhood are close together so If i vent out the side, any smell would be easily noticed. The smell is what kept me from venting out of the house in the first place. I was planning on putting filtered air out of the back of the house if needed, but I suppose it would probably be easier to just put it in the same vent that the water heater is venting from. I have to cut that thing open anyway for my re-routing and the damper. The veg room is under my back porch, so that is the back of the house.

Hello. I'm new and gathering my thoughts for input. The first thing I notice is the size and layout option chosen, forcing you to go through a short daylight room into the longer daylight room. To keep all of your right options open, I would have suggested switching the rooms around (not switching the sizes, but swapping the room placement as if they were cutouts). This way, there's an overlap from under your porch into your basement for a separate indoor entrance to the flowering room. Also, you mention this porch being over your current veg room in the drawing and said it leads to outside. Is your house basement really half exposed on one side of the house because of some kind of hill or something? Is there an actual door or other enter/exit device on that outside-expose wall of the veg room?

So currently you have the longest running daylight (veg) on an outside exposed wall (windows/doors?)? And the smelliest growing time (flowering) facing a neighbors house if you decide to vent? The switch gives a couple good reasons to switch it around. Another thing is the way it's open via the stairs. A door would be great, but maybe best placed closer to the top. If you are ever worried about sounds, it's best to have the barriers the furthest away you can get to dampen the sound out. If your door is close to something that makes noise for the sake of growing, someone might find it "out of place".

This is something I'm considering when I'm established in a home I own: A way to get the smell out and recycle the air through the house (use heat from the grow to benefit the house). Make a box, intake, exhaust and some how to have an air filter device of the ozone kind maybe (I've researched a little about this so far). In from the good stinking grow room and out to the house. If you do not need to use a door between upsairs and downstairs just exhausting high like you described before would let most of the heat rise upstairs and you can pull in cool basement air to the grow room for fresh air. What I've read so far is the right air filtration will remove and refreshing the air so much so, that someone who just straight set it up in their grow room ended upw ith stuff that shoudl have smelled stronger. The potency was teh same, but the smell was not only taken from the air, but the general odor of the bud as well.

Also, since you already have PVC sticking out from everywhere, you could stick an INTAKE PVC pipe on the outside, use a small form factor box with HEPA or similar air filter. Like a box that has grooves for an air filter in the middle and hinged locking lid. When you change the a/c filter in your house it usually has an open square area behind it (like the inside of a box). So the idea is similar to that. Then straight vent teh heat from the room out to the basement/house (with odor filtration that would still be needed for that end of it). The cooler basement would cool the air slightly, but the warming air rises and would probably lower your heating bill to compensate for the electricity used for lighting. Now just what to do about summer? Reverse the process?

well i run lots of lights and to let you know you need fresh outside air way you got it going is making me dizzy keep it simple fresh air in hot air out plane and simple

The veg room under the porch is just an extension of the basement under ground. There is no actual way to get outside from the basement except the egress window. I think it was just built to add more storage space. Having the veg through the flower space was a tough decision, but it was the right size for me in relation to my flowering space. Now that I've been rethinking this, I'm thinking of moving my veg to a similar room on the other side of my basement that happens to be under my front porch. Then using my current veg room for drying/ curing. Now the only problem I see with this is that I won't have CO2 in my veg, but maybe I'll just do 20lb tanks since it is a small space. About 6x4x11 tall.

You're right about the problems with having to go through the Flower room to get to veg. I havent even started outfitting the main room yet, and light proofing that Veg has been an on-going problem I've been trying to figure out. It means a couple more electric runs, but thats always fun . I put a dimmable 1k watt ballast in the veg, and tested it for a day. I had no heat issues at all with the 8" inline fan, however it was recycling colder basement air. Had i left the old design it would be been sucking in hot flower room air.

Now that still leaves me with the problem on how to vent my room. For air exits, I can actually put something out the back of my house. I'm not sure if its helpful to vent it higher in the air, but I could probably run PVC up the side of my house even. Ideally I would still like a solution that would just make the air going outside not smelly so I can vent whereever. Like right out the window so I dont have to make holes. Recirculating my basement air seemed like the easiest choice, since I figured I could at least manage the odors there better, unless it started seeping through my floors or something. I've heard mixed reviews about the ozone generators. In regards to odor control, price isn't really an option, I'll pay whats needed to make it happen. I was thinking toward the end of flower I'll also add a DIY ONA bucket or something if I have to for that little extra help, though whats the point of having all the carbon filters if they arent doing the work? I just need to figure out where to put them for best effect.

I've read that higher is better. If you can get an exhaust over the 12 foot marker (where ever that came from, but it's what I read), the wind at that level and above is always faster (basically over your first floor roof). I live in a second floor apartment with 2 bathrooms, each having a vent to the roof. So imagine, when I flower the smell gets carried away in the wind. So no carbon filter for me. If I noticed anthing outside, I would change it up then. Money is an issue for me. I'm part of the 99% and unemployed. Without unemployment. So just living off savings right now and learning how to self-sustain myself personally for the rest of my life. But I considered the idea; Air closer to the ground moves slower because there are more obsticles. Check out my journal I started. I'm working on some vegetables as well to save on the produce I buy on a regular basis.

Dr fever makes a good point. Simpler is probably better. I'll try not to over manage it. I think I'll do that PVC intake too, should keep me from having to get an ac until summer.

Just a quick update, I'm going to make a post in the appropriate forum with questions, but it looks like my new clones have powdery mildew.

That is not good. To help save you wait time, here's what a quick google search revealed (this is stated from a user in a forum with the same problem, not me):

"You have powder mold. I have dealt with this a lot in the past because I grew Maui Wawi which is very suseptable to powder mold. If your plant is past week four of bloom seperate the infected plant so it doesn't affect your healthy plants. There is nothing you can do to fix the problem once you have gone past week four of bloom. If you haven't past that point you can go to any grow store and buy mildew cures, most work well. It is vital that you spray the entire plant with the mold cure(both sides of the leaves) IN THE DARK. I have even made a large mixture in a clean trash can and fully dipped my plants in mildew cure. If you don't want to spend any money, I have friends that swear by baking soda and water. Mix baking soda and water in a spray bottle and foliar spray as usual. They say this has cured their powder mold in the past. Hope this helps. I have successfully beat powder mold, good luck to you... "

OK i thought long and hard (about 20 seconds) about drawing this out, then i decided i would just put it into words, then if you don't get it we will talk through it.
Simple is the way to go here, so basically throw your hvac plans away and do this:
Take the carbon filter out of the veg room, you don't need it in there you are venting to the flower room.
Now take your 2 carbon filters with fans and put them at one end of the room (floor, wall or ceiling mount doesn't matter.)
Now duct each filter to 2 hoods in line, then duct the end 2 to a Y that goes to another fan and then out the wall (where you originally planned on going out with the single filter)
Now you have taken all of your heated air from your room, filtered it, ran it through your lights, cooled them and dispatched the hot air outside.
Now a couple of passive intakes and duct your single 1000 watt out of the veg room into the flower room, and you are done. No smells no leaks no worries.
Down fall of this: you will be venting your co2 out the wall also, but you were going to do that anyways.
Hope this makes sense, think simple (and straight) as possible on this. We will make this shit work one way or another, I'm here for any and all questions.

I agree with you I think simple is better. I think that's pretty much the design I'm going with except I'm moving my veg elsewhere completely separate.