New Plants, New Problems

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 18, 2016

First off, hello community! SWIM (is this used here?) is very happy and eager to learn the ropes and acquire experienced insight on SWIM's future projects

Grow Room Info:
Lighting: 400w MH (air-cooled w/ 6" high velocity fan), 20 hrs a day on and 4 off
Ventilation: Second 6" high velocity fan pulling air OUTWARDS (triggered to turn on at 75ºF), two small wall mountable circulation fans (running 24hrs)
Tent: AgroMax 5'x5'
Tray: 2'x2' flood table
Soil: 1 bag Fox Farms Ocean Forest + 1 bag Happy frog + 1 bag of pearlite
Pots: Swim is unsure. About half gallon or third gallon? square shaped pots
Environmental Parameters:
Temp: High=78.5ºF, Low=63.5ºF, Current=69ºF
Humidity: High=55%, Low=36%, Current=47%
pH of food: 6.5-7
TDS of Food: 1052ppm (fed today, water measures 130ppm out of my reservoir before nutes)
Plants:
1x Gorilla Glue #4 (G.G.#4)
1x Cherry Blossom Kush (C.B.K.)

SWIM has a new project underway and finally received some very very nice genetics from a local caregiver as clones (strains listed above). Within the past 2 days SWIM has noticed something eating at his leaves

. SWIM posted close-ups of all the eaten-off-of leaves from each plant, as well as a picture of the back of one eaten leaf.

Also, there seems to be some sort of either malnutrition or irregular growth. Some of the older leaves on both plants seem to look "wavy" or "rippled". And the serrated edges of some leaves on the C.B.K. are curling inwards. SWIM has included pictures of all of these effected leaves.

Swim also included pictures of his room as a whole, the nutrients he is using, the feeding regimen being followed and his parameters. This is all in hope that someone will see these pictures and go "Oh I've seen X before, just do Y or Z to fix it".

(P.S. those tip burns on the older leaves are from before I got the clones)

Thank you very much for even taking the time to read this new thread. Any and all responses are appreciated. Happy Smoking

lio lacidem · Nov 18, 2016

oo77Kr0nik77oo said:
First off, hello community! SWIM (is this used here?) is very happy and eager to learn the ropes and acquire experienced insight on SWIM's future projects

Grow Room Info:
Lighting: 400w MH (air-cooled w/ 6" high velocity fan), 20 hrs a day on and 4 off
Ventilation: Second 6" high velocity fan pulling air OUTWARDS (triggered to turn on at 75ºF), two small wall mountable circulation fans (running 24hrs)
Tent: AgroMax 5'x5'
Tray: 2'x2' flood table
Soil: 1 bag Fox Farms Ocean Forest + 1 bag Happy frog + 1 bag of pearlite
Pots: Swim is unsure. About half gallon or third gallon? square shaped pots
Environmental Parameters:
Temp: High=78.5ºF, Low=63.5ºF, Current=69ºF
Humidity: High=55%, Low=36%, Current=47%
pH of food: 6.5-7
TDS of Food: 1052ppm (fed today, water measures 130ppm out of my reservoir before nutes)
Plants:
1x Gorilla Glue #4 (G.G.#4)
1x Cherry Blossom Kush (C.B.K.)

SWIM has a new project underway and finally received some very very nice genetics from a local caregiver as clones (strains listed above). Within the past 2 days SWIM has noticed something eating at his leaves . SWIM posted close-ups of all the eaten-off-of leaves from each plant, as well as a picture of the back of one eaten leaf.

Also, there seems to be some sort of either malnutrition or irregular growth. Some of the older leaves on both plants seem to look "wavy" or "rippled". And the serrated edges of some leaves on the C.B.K. are curling inwards. SWIM has included pictures of all of these effected leaves.

Swim also included pictures of his room as a whole, the nutrients he is using, the feeding regimen being followed and his parameters. This is all in hope that someone will see these pictures and go "Oh I've seen X before, just do Y or Z to fix it".

(P.S. those tip burns on the older leaves are from before I got the clones)

Thank you very much for even taking the time to read this new thread. Any and all responses are appreciated. Happy Smoking

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First off welcome. There is no need to use swim here. 2ndly you just learned and important lesson, lots of clones come with a free prize......Bugs. Definately looks like you brought some pests in.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 18, 2016

lio lacidem said:
First off welcome. There is no need to use swim here. 2ndly you just learned and important lesson, lots of clones come with a free prize......Bugs. Definately looks like you brought some pests in.

Awesome Lio, thank you (and fast response!) So I figure to get a hand-pump style sprayer to spread pesticides. I am wondering what type of pest could be responsible? Any recommendations books like just pertaining to tried and true pest management would be appreciated. lol I can't see the damn things and they ate a whole leaf.

I have done other small grows but never had any pest issues so I would say I am a complete newb when it comes to using them.

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 18, 2016

that would appear to be spider mites to me. theres a lot of options. my personal preferences is to use BOTH a spray with pyrethins, and one with spinosad. alternate on a 4 day schedule, spray each one twice over 2 weeks. worked for me, so far

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 18, 2016

Roger A. Shrubber said:
that would appear to be spider mites to me. theres a lot of options. my personal preferences is to use BOTH a spray with pyrethins, and one with spinosad. alternate on a 4 day schedule, spray each one twice over 2 weeks. worked for me, so far

Thanks Roger, I love the Roger the Shrubber reference :bigjoint:

Would one normally just spray the plants themselves or rather spray the plants as well as the entire room? I just want to eradicate these guys before I have WWIII on my hands. :wall:

dannyboy602 · Nov 18, 2016

start with dish soap and water spray upper and lower leaf surface. do it again in a few days. repeat as necessary.

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 18, 2016

i put on rubber gloves and use one hand to lift the leaves up so i'm getting the bottoms of the leaves. i find doing this thoroughly pretty much covers the whole area. i don't try to cover all the walls or ceiling, but i'm pretty sure if any of the little buggers jump off, they'll be swimming in captain jack's dead bug brew when they hit the floor.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i put on rubber gloves and use one hand to lift the leaves up so i'm getting the bottoms of the leaves. i find doing this thoroughly pretty much covers the whole area. i don't try to cover all the walls or ceiling, but i'm pretty sure if any of the little buggers jump off, they'll be swimming in captain jack's dead bug brew when they hit the floor.

Awesome Roger. I just got back from a friends house who lent me his hand-pump sprayer and he had a premix he had used recently of Captain Jacks and Azamax. Clearly the jacks is good stuff as you mentioned, but is the Azamax ok to use as well? He said it was mixed to the manufactures specs into one solution and that is what I have in the sprayer now, ready to go.

dannyboy602 said:
start with dish soap and water spray upper and lower leaf surface. do it again in a few days. repeat as necessary.

Thanks Danny, have you had a lot of success with just the dish soap? what are you using, dawn? I like this idea, but like I was saying, I need mass Genocide so that this just stops before it gets bad.

dannyboy602 · Nov 19, 2016

sure u have mites? I'm not convinced. shake the plant over a white piece of paper. some should fall off. decide first that u have a problem b4 u treat it

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

dannyboy602 said:
sure u have mites? I'm not convinced. shake the plant over a white piece of paper. some should fall off. decide first that u have a problem b4 u treat it

I tried the paper and didn't see anything come off onto it. I looked under what I am 99% sure is every single leaf on both plants also and nothing. But it appears to be even more damaged today than yesterday. Could pests that cause these problems actually live underneath the "skin" of the plants? I would imagine that would be very bad for the phloem if the infestation carries on to deep into plant tissue. I am now getting a little more worried. :cry:

dannyboy602 · Nov 19, 2016

oo77Kr0nik77oo said:
I tried the paper and didn't see anything come off onto it. I looked under what I am 99% sure is every single leaf on both plants also and nothing. But it appears to be even more damaged today than yesterday. Could pests that cause these problems actually live underneath the "skin" of the plants? I would imagine that would be very bad for the phloem if the infestation carries on to deep into plant tissue. I am now getting a little more worried.

only pest that can do that is leaf miners and u don't have em. its not a pest problem. sorry I wish I knew but I don't...only that u don't have insects.

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 19, 2016

spider mites are the only thing i know that cause those little pimples. i'm open to suggestions as to what else causes that. i'm far from infallible. just don't know anything else to suggest.

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 19, 2016

i don't know, the only other thread i could find that had identical damage treated it as heat stress, and never followed up.
but according to your info above, you've never been hot enough to cause heat stress, your ph looks good, and your rh should be in acceptable levels as well...Danny seems very convinced i'm wrong. i'm open to suggestions.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i don't know, the only other thread i could find that had identical damage treated it as heat stress, and never followed up.
but according to your info above, you've never been hot enough to cause heat stress, your ph looks good, and your rh should be in acceptable levels as well...Danny seems very convinced i'm wrong. i'm open to suggestions.

Well I talked to the caregiver and apparently they had a pest issue recently so I do think that is what it is. I have applied the pesticides, I have a pesticide regimen, and we will only see from here. I will follow up with this so that we can all have a better understanding of this diagnosis. My temps have been dot on, controlled by a heater, as well as a vent fan (because without the heater it would never get above 65ºF). Thermostat is even relatively close to the plant canopy. My pH is monitored using strips not digital (I hope they are accurate), but tds is digital and calibrated.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

My RH is controlled by a de-humidifier in my basement. It works so that the air vented in and out of my grow rooms is being dehumidified. This is always running though, and does not have a RH% relay; just a power control from 1-10

. I always keep it on, and at 8. One leaf does look like heat stress though, but it could have been an odd patch of stagnant air? My fans don't oscillate in the room, I just have them placed strategically kinda lol

lio lacidem · Nov 19, 2016

oo77Kr0nik77oo said:
My RH is controlled by a de-humidifier in my basement. It works so that the air vented in and out of my grow rooms is being dehumidified. This is always running though, and does not have a RH% relay; just a power control from 1-10 . I always keep it on, and at 8. One leaf does look like heat stress though, but it could have been an odd patch of stagnant air? My fans don't oscillate in the room, I just have them placed strategically kinda lol

It is not heat stress. It is not stagnant air. It is mites and mite damage. I can almost guarentee that your caregiver only killed off the live mites then gave out clones. Eggs hatched you got the prize. The more you try and convince yourself its something else the worse its gonna get

DocktaGreenThumb · Nov 19, 2016

If its a sealed room (Besides ventilation) go drop some money on about 1,000 Ladybugs and release them into your room. They feast on pests like no tomarrow and you're NEVER, I repeat NEVER going to get rid of all the mites until you strip your room and clean. This will help you manage until harvest if that is the problem, if not, they wont hurt. Thank me later bongsmilie

ps. Ease back on your nutes, they are starting to burn.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

lio lacidem said:
It is not heat stress. It is not stagnant air. It is mites and mite damage. I can almost guarentee that your caregiver only killed off the live mites then gave out clones. Eggs hatched you got the prize. The more you try and convince yourself its something else the worse its gonna get

Thank you Lio I appreciate the help. I am feeling a lot more at ease having sprayed and knowing a tested regimen to stick to. Like I said I will keep updates as much as I can!

DocktaGreenThumb said:
If its a sealed room (Besides ventilation) go drop some money on about 1,000 Ladybugs and release them into your room. They feast on pests like no tomarrow and you're NEVER, I repeat NEVER going to get rid of all the mites until you strip your room and clean. This will help you manage until harvest if that is the problem, if not, they wont hurt. Thank me later

ps. Ease back on your nutes, they are starting to burn.

I love the Lady Bug idea. My dad actually told me to do that when I asked him hahaa. As for the nutes, FF is def HOT. I had always heard that, and now that I am testing, when I make a weak solution (compared to the label) the TDS is always still WELL too high. My water before adding anything is even measuring 2ppm. I really just go by TDS now for strength and use the amounts on the labels more like ratios.

oo77Kr0nik77oo · Nov 19, 2016

Roger A. Shrubber said:
spider mites are the only thing i know that cause those little pimples. i'm open to suggestions as to what else causes that...

I was hoping/thinking that the bumps on the leaves were just failed trichome sites (or something). Mainly due to the fact that these clones were taken from F1 plants from seed that were forced from flower back into veg. I was planning to refresh these soon-to-be mothers sooner then later. I am just keeping them long enough to take clones off of.

Roger A. Shrubber · Nov 20, 2016

when i was a kid my dad got ladybugs to put in the outside garden. we opened the box, and within 2 days they had gotten rid of the pests, but they were EVERY fucking where, we were picking lady bugs out of everything for months, bowl of cereal...with lady bugs, glass of water...with a lady bug...wipe your ass in the bathroom, pick the ladybug off the toilet paper...so yeah...open a box of a thousand lady bugs inside your house....

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