Newb Grow with pics

ShirkGoldbrick

Active Member
Hi everyone, so this will be my second grow, my first was incredibly unsuccesful. Out of 10 plants 10 germinated in rapid rooters and one died because I broke the tap root. (I thought it needed to go deeper into the rooter and it had already semi attached itself to the side).

The rest experienced stunting, chlorosis, and tip burn (despite not being fed any nutrients)

My reasons for failure:
1. My PH pen was functioning wrong (I just realized that now, new one is on order, some damage as to it's effects can be seen in my pictures of this post on the new seedlings)
2. I used HCl as pH down, this likely locked out Mg and or was toxic to the plants
3. I've seen a total of 3 fungus gnats, I have azomax on order as well as some strips to see if they're really a problem
4. I had over watered the soil
5. The soil was FFOF which may have burned them

I did have one plant that, despite all of my efforts to kill them was doing extremely well. It only had a tiny bit of tip burn. I moved it to a solo cup of 75/25 perlite/vermiculite with a top coating of FFOF and it did ok until it outgrew the cup. Once I put it back into FFOF the lower leaves began to burn, new growth has yellowing, growth is almost stunted, the lower branches fell off from their leaves being burned out, smaller dwarf leaves and branches are taking it's place but they too are experiencing some chlorosis and yellowing and tip burn. I never gave it any food.

I attribute a lot of my last failure to FFOF as being wayyyy too hot for BF critical kush. The fact it did well outside of the FFOF tells me it wasn't the HCl, but the salts may have built up, I did flush it once with no relief. I may have some fungus gnat larvae in the pot so I need to stop watering..that soil takes forevvvvver like over a week to dry out (7" plant in 3 gallon pot) I also may have some messed up pH, but FFOF is supposed to buffer.

This time I started 10 more BF critical kush, I had one die again, it sprouted two tap roots from the seed and the second had some TINY green on top that looked like cotyledons would open on it so I moved it to its own jiffy cube as it had ejected itself from the seed. It withered and died. The other one, which was still attached to the seed sprouted to the surface and opened but the stem was too flaccid to hold its own weight so it also withered and died. This may be because the seed was too close to the surface (I use them upside down and cut a hole for the seed with a razor). The rest I moved to coconut fiber pots with 75-85% perlite, 15-25% vermiculite and a light coating of worm castings on top.

Here they are, in no particular order. A couple look over watered/nitrogen toxicity and a little bit of tip burn. They were being fed silica boost and HCl pH down and looked fine but I gave them 1/4 tsp of dyna grow foliage pro in a gallon of water(which is a quarter dose) and again looked fine for another day but then I noticed some tip burn and a few of the first razor leafs are pointing straight down. I'm not sure if it's due to the chloride, the nutes, the bonk pH meter or what but they will be getting only RO water until the cotyledons start to yellow from now on. Until my pH meter gets here I can assume this will be acceptable as I had previously ph'd my RO water at 6.5 right after initial calibration with 23ppm TDS.

Oh, before the pics..a few side notes[sorry to keep you waiting].
1. Don't store your TDS meter in your tent, everything metal in the tent will rust and this will mess up any TDS readings as the tips rust.
2. Don't store your pH meter in your tent, the RO water started to grow some sort of algae that it was stored in

a. The pH and TDS meter will now be stored in a stock pH 7 solution in a normally unoccupied room, after exiting and before entering the stock solution they will be hit with a stream of RO water from a squeeze bottle to rinse off anything that may interfere with its readings. The stock solutions will be replaced periodically and will ensure accurate calibration every time I turn the pH meter on.

3. pH down will now be phosphoric acid

Pics (In no particular order):
IMG_20141110_204820949_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_204910751_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_204929821_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_204956336_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205028672_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205053773_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205228617_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205307609_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205319128_HDR.jpg

Three pots to a tray, two 300w (not actual) LEDS are providing the light about two feet up. The distances are the same as last time but these stems are just a bit longer than my previous seedlings.

Temp: 80
Humidity: 40-50
Pictures: LEDs are off and under a 100w daylight CFL with a phone.

What do you all think? Thoughts, suggestions, comments?
 

ShirkGoldbrick

Active Member
I ripped out some of the dwarf barely alive CK I still have from the solo cups [they were too far gone in the FFOF for solo cups to save them] and replaced them with [in order by picture] 710 cheese, BF Blue Cheese, and Sweet Island Skunk (I forget the breeder off the top of my head).
IMG_20141110_205339830_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205427116_HDR.jpg
IMG_20141110_205442899_HDR.jpg

*edit* I also started some chocoloco, it has germed but is extremely slow and I don't know if it will sprout, it was started at the same time as these ones. Too bad, I wanted to smell the chocolate/coffee scent. I'll keep it on the heating mat in the burpees propagator
 

crawlintbss

Well-Known Member
well im a newbie as well but ive done alot of research so ill try and help. few problems i see, your soil is way to wet for a plant that size. you comment it takes a week to dry out. dont put it in a huge 3gal that you probably soak until runoff. Start em in a solo cup, then 1gal at like day 7ish, let it fill the 1gal for 2weeks then move to a 3gal. I didnt move my plant to a 3gal until day 26. i doubt foxfarm really ruined your grow. dont use it to start, wait until you are moving up to at 1gal to use FF. but like others said, giving to much attention to them can be more harm then good. Stop feeding them at that size too. I didnt start feeding my plant until day 27. your FF will have enough in there for first 2-3weeks. ( probably why you are blaming the soil ) when inevitably you where the one adding more food. Just give em water until they tell you they want food. Good luck and its all learning.
 

ShirkGoldbrick

Active Member
I appologize for being so long winded.

On the FFOF though, does it release nutrients by how much you water? That may be the reason they burned, I did water until run off when I probably should have only watered just a little or started with smaller pots. Either that or it was bad genetics or one of the other factors. The plants received no nutrients in the FFOF but still displayed symptoms of severe nutrient burn.

The current ones are in mostly perlite so they will need feeding sooner than in soil, obviously not yet as judging by their response to the previous light feeding. The hempy buckets just aren't ready yet so they're in psuedo hempy buckets which their roots can go through until then.

Thing is, I didn't think you could really over water a hempy bucket that was mostly perlite? I've just been watering until run off with them where the run off is sitting in a tray and the pot is permeable hence the pseudo hempy bucket analogy. It's just that a few look droopy right now. Then just feed as the cotyledons fade out?
 

TheYokel

Well-Known Member
I appologize for being so long winded.

On the FFOF though, does it release nutrients by how much you water? That may be the reason they burned, I did water until run off when I probably should have only watered just a little or started with smaller pots. Either that or it was bad genetics or one of the other factors. The plants received no nutrients in the FFOF but still displayed symptoms of severe nutrient burn.
FFOF is pretty well-known for being hot enough to give some slight burn to seedlings. Best bet is to start them off, then when they need transplanting, you can move them to the FFOF. I germed my seeds in those little Super Pods. Literally. No dirt, nothing, right in the little clone starter things. Then by the time the roots started showing well, they had about 2-3 nodes on them and were ready to move to my Happy Frog and were (almost literally) dying for the nutrients in the soil.

Also in FFOF, you won't need to feed them at all for the first 3 or 4 weeks. There is plenty in the soil as long as you have the appropriate pot size for your plants to grow. Just some CalMag and molasses water is all I use for the first few weeks.
 

crawlintbss

Well-Known Member
Im on my first as well but did reading for about a year before i had the space to grow.

I have read that FF is hot on babies. to be honest mine started in MG Organic that had small amount of food so i vegged in 1gal with that until i moved to 3gal and then switched to FFOF. So i cant comment on the babies burning in the OF but have read it can happen and to just water only with OF for like first 2 weeks as itll have enough in there to absorb. Now if you flush hard once or twice im sure itll wash a decent amount out. I didnt start feeding until i got yellowing in my lower growth to show it was time. ( tho i was having calcium issues aswell so i needed to start feeding ).

and when i did solo cups and 1gal, i waterd til it barely started to show watering coming out the bottom. now i water to about 10-20% run off but i have alot of perlite so the girls start draining fast so i like to still add another 32oz after that.

not to sure what hempy bucket is. but dont let it runoff into a pan and sit in there. now your root tips are just sitting in that ppm of run off and not getting time to reach around for water. i let mine drip for like 15mins then place back in tent with a bunch of papertowels. then remove those after like 30mins and then its good to chill for a day or 2.
 

TheYokel

Well-Known Member
not to sure what hempy bucket is. but dont let it runoff into a pan and sit in there. now your root tips are just sitting in that ppm of run off and not getting time to reach around for water. i let mine drip for like 15mins then place back in tent with a bunch of papertowels. then remove those after like 30mins and then its good to chill for a day or 2.
Yep, I have a 5 gallon bucket that I put a 2 gallon starter pot upside down in. I use the starter pot as a raised platform to sit my girls on that way the run-off never touches the plant again after it comes out. I let them drip for about 10-15 minutes after soaking them so that the trays in my tent stay relatively dry and clean. I water 5 or six plants, dump the bucket, water the last 6, dump one last time, and done.
 

ShirkGoldbrick

Active Member
So just to be clear, in these maybe quart size pots with vermiculite/perlite I should just water a little bit, let dry, repeat. Not run until run off? They don't need nutes yet and I have a moisture meter that can tell me where I'm good at.
 

TheYokel

Well-Known Member
Always water until you get a small run-off... even if you aren't adding nutes. Always.

Always always always.

And stop worrying about run-off, and nutes, etc... until you get a damn leaf on the plant. Poor little things barely broke the surface and you are already trying to throw the sink at them.

Patience young grasshopper...
 

nflguy

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, so this will be my second grow, my first was incredibly unsuccesful. Out of 10 plants 10 germinated in rapid rooters and one died because I broke the tap root. (I thought it needed to go deeper into the rooter and it had already semi attached itself to the side).

The rest experienced stunting, chlorosis, and tip burn (despite not being fed any nutrients)

My reasons for failure:
1. My PH pen was functioning wrong (I just realized that now, new one is on order, some damage as to it's effects can be seen in my pictures of this post on the new seedlings)
2. I used HCl as pH down, this likely locked out Mg and or was toxic to the plants
3. I've seen a total of 3 fungus gnats, I have azomax on order as well as some strips to see if they're really a problem
4. I had over watered the soil
5. The soil was FFOF which may have burned them

I did have one plant that, despite all of my efforts to kill them was doing extremely well. It only had a tiny bit of tip burn. I moved it to a solo cup of 75/25 perlite/vermiculite with a top coating of FFOF and it did ok until it outgrew the cup. Once I put it back into FFOF the lower leaves began to burn, new growth has yellowing, growth is almost stunted, the lower branches fell off from their leaves being burned out, smaller dwarf leaves and branches are taking it's place but they too are experiencing some chlorosis and yellowing and tip burn. I never gave it any food.

I attribute a lot of my last failure to FFOF as being wayyyy too hot for BF critical kush. The fact it did well outside of the FFOF tells me it wasn't the HCl, but the salts may have built up, I did flush it once with no relief. I may have some fungus gnat larvae in the pot so I need to stop watering..that soil takes forevvvvver like over a week to dry out (7" plant in 3 gallon pot) I also may have some messed up pH, but FFOF is supposed to buffer.

This time I started 10 more BF critical kush, I had one die again, it sprouted two tap roots from the seed and the second had some TINY green on top that looked like cotyledons would open on it so I moved it to its own jiffy cube as it had ejected itself from the seed. It withered and died. The other one, which was still attached to the seed sprouted to the surface and opened but the stem was too flaccid to hold its own weight so it also withered and died. This may be because the seed was too close to the surface (I use them upside down and cut a hole for the seed with a razor). The rest I moved to coconut fiber pots with 75-85% perlite, 15-25% vermiculite and a light coating of worm castings on top.

Here they are, in no particular order. A couple look over watered/nitrogen toxicity and a little bit of tip burn. They were being fed silica boost and HCl pH down and looked fine but I gave them 1/4 tsp of dyna grow foliage pro in a gallon of water(which is a quarter dose) and again looked fine for another day but then I noticed some tip burn and a few of the first razor leafs are pointing straight down. I'm not sure if it's due to the chloride, the nutes, the bonk pH meter or what but they will be getting only RO water until the cotyledons start to yellow from now on. Until my pH meter gets here I can assume this will be acceptable as I had previously ph'd my RO water at 6.5 right after initial calibration with 23ppm TDS.

Oh, before the pics..a few side notes[sorry to keep you waiting].
1. Don't store your TDS meter in your tent, everything metal in the tent will rust and this will mess up any TDS readings as the tips rust.
2. Don't store your pH meter in your tent, the RO water started to grow some sort of algae that it was stored in

a. The pH and TDS meter will now be stored in a stock pH 7 solution in a normally unoccupied room, after exiting and before entering the stock solution they will be hit with a stream of RO water from a squeeze bottle to rinse off anything that may interfere with its readings. The stock solutions will be replaced periodically and will ensure accurate calibration every time I turn the pH meter on.

3. pH down will now be phosphoric acid

Pics (In no particular order):
View attachment 3291144
View attachment 3291145
View attachment 3291146
View attachment 3291147
View attachment 3291149
View attachment 3291151
View attachment 3291152
View attachment 3291159
View attachment 3291160

Three pots to a tray, two 300w (not actual) LEDS are providing the light about two feet up. The distances are the same as last time but these stems are just a bit longer than my previous seedlings.

Temp: 80
Humidity: 40-50
Pictures: LEDs are off and under a 100w daylight CFL with a phone.

What do you all think? Thoughts, suggestions, comments?
 

nflguy

Well-Known Member
Ive grown BF Critical Kush in FFOF for a long time and i have never burned a single plant. I start them in solo cups with Ocean Forest as soon as they pop and then a week later transplant them into 5 gallon buckets with 75% FFOF and 25% perlite. I know people like to blame it as being "too hot"...thats nonsense in my opinion so please dont blame the soil.
 

SATIVAZOID ROBOT

Well-Known Member
I have always started mine in FF light warrior.. A light feeding of molasses, kelp, and fish emulsion after the seed leaves start to fade from green.. This will really jump start some seedlings.. 1/4 tsp molasses..1/2tsp of fish tsp of kelp meal per gall..works like a charm for me
 
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