Newer study: single payer would cost 3 trillion dollars per year.

abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
According to this study, doctors still take a big pay cut. Economists have given different estimates on how many jobs would be lost if a single payer system were adopted but they range from 700k to a million.

I can't post the study because you have to register to open the link but it's free to register for the Lancet. It's a highly reputable scientific journal and the study's primary author worked closely with the Bernie Sanders campaign so this is clearly the best cost estimate for his plan. By all means let's use this as our reference for debate.

Still 3 trillion dollars per year is almost the entire federal revenue.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Since the present United States funding is based in debt creation, why would it matter if the future funding is based in even more debt creation?

It's just as easy to "print" trillions as it is to "print" billions right?

Bernie's "programs" will also tie into the ever increasing demonizing of cash. Everybody gets an account, all sustenance will come from and be controlled by Godverment.

Bernie, the gun loving control freak, is a messiah of the Control State.
 
B

BrewerT

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you are a pedophile
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I just don't get you. You often debate political topics and ideas with name calling. I mean really man? Name calling? I know your intelligent enough to see just how juvenile that behavior is. I don't know for sure that this one is a sincere post but I have witnessed plenty that are sincere. I think its your go to comfort zone. Trolling, insulting, slandering, degrading....all while being a proponent of Constitutionality and Liberty and freedoms. Anyone who disagree's with your point of view or doesn't like your political agenda/candidate becomes the recipient of your insults and slurs. It's slightly disturbing considering you are a very intelligent and sometimes articulate contributor here. Its hypocritical and its projects the presumption that you are not as intelligent as you may seem.

Before you respond with insults and defamation, I agree with most of your political views and I also greatly support Bernie. With that said, your post comes off very Trump like. And I think its fair to say neither of us have any respect for him as a human being. I think you can do better than these types of unwarranted malicious and vulgar posts.

Likely, this will be a waste of my time and yours as well. But, I feel its worth you knowing that our cannabis culture doesn't need your negative behavior towards others. Play nice, be nice, do nice things. It will make much more of a difference than slandering, insulting, and otherwise degrading people on a cannabis forum. Not necessarily a highlight for anyone.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
BrewerT said:
I just don't get you. You often debate political topics and ideas with name calling. I mean really man? Name calling? I know your intelligent enough to see just how juvenile that behavior is. I don't know for sure that this one is a sincere post but I have witnessed plenty that are sincere. I think its your go to comfort zone. Trolling, insulting, slandering, degrading....all while being a proponent of Constitutionality and Liberty and freedoms. Anyone who disagree's with your point of view or doesn't like your political agenda/candidate becomes the recipient of your insults and slurs. It's slightly disturbing considering you are a very intelligent and sometimes articulate contributor here. Its hypocritical and its projects the presumption that you are not as intelligent as you may seem.

Before you respond with insults and defamation, I agree with most of your political views and I also greatly support Bernie. With that said, your post comes off very Trump like. And I think its fair to say neither of us have any respect for him as a human being. I think you can do better than these types of unwarranted malicious and vulgar posts.

Likely, this will be a waste of my time and yours as well. But, I feel its worth you knowing that our cannabis culture doesn't need your negative behavior towards others. Play nice, be nice, do nice things. It will make much more of a difference than slandering, insulting, and otherwise degrading people on a cannabis forum. Not necessarily a highlight for anyone.
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Any post like this should at least end with a /ignore.

Just saying.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
BrewerT said:
I just don't get you. You often debate political topics and ideas with name calling. I mean really man? Name calling? I know your intelligent enough to see just how juvenile that behavior is. I don't know for sure that this one is a sincere post but I have witnessed plenty that are sincere. I think its your go to comfort zone. Trolling, insulting, slandering, degrading....all while being a proponent of Constitutionality and Liberty and freedoms. Anyone who disagree's with your point of view or doesn't like your political agenda/candidate becomes the recipient of your insults and slurs. It's slightly disturbing considering you are a very intelligent and sometimes articulate contributor here. Its hypocritical and its projects the presumption that you are not as intelligent as you may seem.

Before you respond with insults and defamation, I agree with most of your political views and I also greatly support Bernie. With that said, your post comes off very Trump like. And I think its fair to say neither of us have any respect for him as a human being. I think you can do better than these types of unwarranted malicious and vulgar posts.

Likely, this will be a waste of my time and yours as well. But, I feel its worth you knowing that our cannabis culture doesn't need your negative behavior towards others. Play nice, be nice, do nice things. It will make much more of a difference than slandering, insulting, and otherwise degrading people on a cannabis forum. Not necessarily a highlight for anyone.
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well he’s literally a pedophile though. And a neo nazi

Good luck to your candidate!
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
According to this study, doctors still take a big pay cut. Economists have given different estimates on how many jobs would be lost if a single payer system were adopted but they range from 700k to a million.

I can't post the study because you have to register to open the link but it's free to register for the Lancet. It's a highly reputable scientific journal and the study's primary author worked closely with the Bernie Sanders campaign so this is clearly the best cost estimate for his plan. By all means let's use this as our reference for debate.

Still 3 trillion dollars per year is almost the entire federal revenue.
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Exactly right. The kinds of cuts Bernie would force on healthcare providers by forcing all patients into Medicare, if done all at once, would be a disaster. His is a lazy management style and forces others to deal with the ignorance and shoddy work behind his healthcare plan. Long lines, interruption in services, cuts in staffing, arbitrary decisions on who gets service all come from knee jerk tops-down and forced policy decisions like his plan.

As you say, if Medicare for all is so great, why does Bernie forced it upon all of us?
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
What Do Americans Think of ‘Socialized’ Medicine? | NowThis
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I would bet that if the question regarded an expansion of medicare to all who want it would get the same reactions from all these people on the street. Everyone would get coverage, private premiums would come down or offer more value (or go extinct) and there would be no tax hikes for middle and lower classes.

Besides, it would require a senate supermajority.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Here's the actual study from the Lancet. I found it hosted on this site since you have to register for the lancet, which makes it impossible to share a link that works. On the 5th page, under the header "The bottom Line for Medicare for All", you'll see plainly the cost of Bernie's bill. The author worked closely with the Sanders campaign and they have already cited this study since it was written about two weeks ago. Subsequently, Sanders went on 60 Minutes and lied through his teeth claiming he had no idea what his bill would cost.

Through the mechanisms detailed previously, we predict that a single-payer health-care system would require $3·034 trillion annually
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doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Biden is right that Sanders’ plan would add trillions to the federal budget. A widely-shared study funded by a think tank backed by the Koch brothers estimated that the plan would cost $32 trillion over the next decade. But the Department of Health and Human Services estimates that the country would spend more than $34 trillion under the current profit-driven system........
sounds like a savings of $2 trillion to me....win/win
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Biden is right that Sanders’ plan would add trillions to the federal budget. A widely-shared study funded by a think tank backed by the Koch brothers estimated that the plan would cost $32 trillion over the next decade. But the Department of Health and Human Services estimates that the country would spend more than $34 trillion under the current profit-driven system.
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The Koch backed (Mercatus) study said 49 trillion, not 32 trillion. The 32.6 trillion figure came from Kaiser Permanente. The most recent study came from The Lancet and was authored by an epidemiologist who worked closely with the Sanders campaign. They even cited it when they correctly stated that the federal government would pay 450 billion less annually for everyone to be covered than the aggregate cost of healthcare paid for by the people to private insurers who do not even cover everyone. Nobody is arguign in favor of the current system though, particularly not Biden, who stood next to Obama for 8 friggin years pushing the ACA to get everyone covered.

The new study from The Lancet, which is cited in this thread is the one we should accept as the cost of M4A. That's 3 trillion per year. Fiscal 2019 federal revenue was 3.4 trillion and Bernie's plan only includes half of the revenue needed with nothing left to squeeze out of the rich. It's huge middle class tax hikes no matter how you cut it.

Because of the Byrd rule, it has to be planned for a decade and it has to be funded.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
if there were any better reasons to bankrupt the country than the health of our citizens and the education of our children, i would not know what they would be. We cannot keep the status quo bro...
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
if there were any better reasons to bankrupt the country than the health of our citizens and the education of our children, i would know what they would be. We cannot keep the status quo bro...
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How would the government be able to provide those things if it went bankrupt? Anyway, it wouldn't and that's not the point. It would result in massive tax hikes if it ever had a chance in hell of getting a supermajority of yes votes in the Senate.

Besides, expanding Medicare to all who actually want it would eliminate the problem of uninsured Americans, immediately achieving universal healthcare and there would be no middle class tax hikes. Bonus, private premiums would come down or offer more value, lest they go extinct.
 
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