Nihilism, the consequence of Atheism

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
I think nihilism is indeed a natural consequence of atheism.

If there is no god or indeed no higher power/creator that defines what is right and wrong, just and unjust, then we can assume that the morality we feel comes simply from the wiring of our own minds.

It is evident that humans (and other species) must have developed a sense of morality (via evolution) in order to allow cooperative communities to form easily. (i.e. those individuals who where able to cooperate survived and passed their morality to their offspring whose successive generation added to in the same manner).

This explains why we feel the moral urges we do and where they come from. We can see that a bad thing is only considered bad because we are "programmed" to avoid it because it is (or was) disadvantageous to our survival.

In reality a bad thing is not judged as bad by anything but ourselves and can be disregarded.

On the topic of existence itself, it can also be disregarded because it simply exists and nothing more, there is no divine creator who can ascribe reason and purpose to anything.

So I think all atheists will eventually become nihilists. If they don't know it then they just haven't been introduced fairly to what nihilism is and/or haven't thought about it.

All my opinion.

ni·hil·ism/ˈnīəˌlizəm/
Noun:

1. The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
2. Extreme skepticism, according to which nothing in the world has a real existence.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Hey, Zaehet! That's an interesting notion, but I for one am a strong atheist, but not a nihilist. I pride myself on my morals and my life has a lot of meaning, because I choose to give it meaning. I am proud of my critical thinking skills and skepticism, but I believe that existence exists. I do think it would be easier for an atheist to accept nihilism, but I choose to be happy via my adherence to my moral instincts and self-appointed purpose and productivity...
 

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Nihilism provides the necessary framework for building up into creationist belief. When everything has no meaning, you are free to make up your own meaning.
 

48martin

Well-Known Member
I could not help myself..[video=youtube;7L2qP-xQ_7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L2qP-xQ_7o[/video]
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy. But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.
Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.
Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. - Penn Jillette



I am not sure Penn's Atheism could advance much further than it has, and he sounds far from a nihilist to me. I think atheism has an equal chance of nudging you in the other direction. Perceiving that life is even more sacred, more precious, more important than if we were some elusive god's creation destined to exist for eternity.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Hey, Zaehet! That's an interesting notion, but I for one am a strong atheist, but not a nihilist. I pride myself on my morals and my life has a lot of meaning, because I choose to give it meaning. I am proud of my critical thinking skills and skepticism, but I believe that existence exists. I do think it would be easier for an atheist to accept nihilism, but I choose to be happy via my adherence to my moral instincts and self-appointed purpose and productivity...

*rep* (I have to whore it before handing you some again :) )
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Nihilists may still adopt their own values throughout their lives. For instance, one may accidentally stumble upon wildflowers, a beautiful woman, or realize the improbability of their own existence. They then assign meaning to these things.

The question is: Are wildflowers, spouses, life, etc. intrinsically meaningful OR do we assign meaning to them?

The answer to the question should be straightforward to both theists and atheists. The theist would say that meaning is intrinsically assigned to our lives by some type of deity. And the atheist would agree with the nihilist viewpoint; Life could not possible hold intrinsic meaning. Rather we create that meaning for ourselves.

I tend to believe that nihilism is the only rational conclusion if one accepts atheism. The atheist is forced to concede that morality is subjective at best... being relative to the individual, society and numerous other personal experiences.

Not just morality, but all aspects of life such as beauty, love and many abstract human concepts are simply artificial fabrications of our mind. If we atheists truly wish to be rational, we must not delude ourselves and believe these things are real when there is no physical or objective evidence to posit such an argument. We are committing the same error we accuse theists doing when we hold on to unprovable fallacies.

I believe that to be a true atheist, one must embrace nihilism.
I am not suggesting we do away with love, morality, art and culture. Evolution has made us the way are to survive. I am simply suggesting that we have evolved to the point where we should be able to distinguish between what is real and what is not. What I mean is that love and morality may not be real, but it feels as though it is and we should go on acting as though it is because evolution brought us thus far, however we should know better.


(i love that movie!)
 

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
Nihilism seems to be the negative side or aspect of atheism.Not believing in God or having the absence of belief in God shouldnt necessarily give way to the nihilistic mindset.As long as an atheist can keep an open mind to the possibility of both nihilistic reality and the possibility of truth,then there can be truely reasonable atheists.
 

BA142

Well-Known Member
I am completely nihilistic. What's wrong with that? Just because i'm a nihilist doesn't mean I don't enjoy this life.

I love my life...wouldn't have it any other way. :bigjoint:

We are just another species on planet earth...what sets us apart is our intelligence and imagination. I'm sure dolphins aren't contemplating "God" and other things like that, they're just trying to fucking survive. That's all we're here to do...survive. Once you accept that there is no special meaning to this life you'll feel free...trust me :-o
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
I am completely nihilistic. What's wrong with that? Just because i'm a nihilist doesn't mean I don't enjoy this life.

I love my life...wouldn't have it any other way. :bigjoint:

We are just another species on planet earth...what sets us apart is our intelligence and imagination. I'm sure dolphins aren't contemplating "God" and other things like that, they're just trying to fucking survive. That's all we're here to do...survive. Once you accept that there is no special meaning to this life you'll feel free...trust me :-o
I wish i could give you a hug right now, you are one of the wisest humans i have ever unofficially met... and i agree with you 100%. life is fucking SWEET! and i love being so fuckin honest with myself, there is no other feeling of freedom quite like being completely and utterly honest with yourself, and it is so nice to know there is someone out there who i can share my joy and honesty with.

you the man BA142, +Rep times a million *edit- gotta spread some rep around first, damn
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Nihilists may still adopt their own values throughout their lives. For instance, one may accidentally stumble upon wildflowers, a beautiful woman, or realize the improbability of their own existence. They then assign meaning to these things.

The question is: Are wildflowers, spouses, life, etc. intrinsically meaningful OR do we assign meaning to them?

The answer to the question should be straightforward to both theists and atheists. The theist would say that meaning is intrinsically assigned to our lives by some type of deity. And the atheist would agree with the nihilist viewpoint; Life could not possible hold intrinsic meaning. Rather we create that meaning for ourselves.

I tend to believe that nihilism is the only rational conclusion if one accepts atheism. The atheist is forced to concede that morality is subjective at best... being relative to the individual, society and numerous other personal experiences.

Not just morality, but all aspects of life such as beauty, love and many abstract human concepts are simply artificial fabrications of our mind. If we atheists truly wish to be rational, we must not delude ourselves and believe these things are real when there is no physical or objective evidence to posit such an argument. We are committing the same error we accuse theists doing when we hold on to unprovable fallacies.

I believe that to be a true atheist, one must embrace nihilism.
I am not suggesting we do away with love, morality, art and culture. Evolution has made us the way are to survive. I am simply suggesting that we have evolved to the point where we should be able to distinguish between what is real and what is not. What I mean is that love and morality may not be real, but it feels as though it is and we should go on acting as though it is because evolution brought us thus far, however we should know better.


(i love that movie!)
I disagree with your logic. You seem to be saying that since we evolved as social creatures and have some innate morality that somehow that makes our morality inconsequential or meaningless. Are you saying that for something to have real meaning it must not be relative but some absolute truth? I can certainly come up with many rational, logical reasons why my morality makes sense and is valid and as real as any other logical, rational conclusion I can formulate. Just because we are the result of natural processes does not remove the ability for us to create meaning and our creations are as real as we make them.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Just because existence has no intrinsic universal meaning or purpose, does not mean that we as individuals cannot make up our OWN meaning or purpose in a meaningless and purposeless existence.

Intrinsically meaningless, not personally meaningless.

Did you read my second lengthy post bro?

"Nihilists may still adopt their own values throughout their lives. For instance, one may accidentally stumble upon wildflowers, a beautiful woman, or realize the improbability of their own existence. They then assign meaning to these things."
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Just because existence has no intrinsic universal meaning or purpose, does not mean that we as individuals cannot make up our OWN meaning or purpose in a meaningless and purposeless existence.

Intrinsically meaningless, not personally meaningless.

Did you read my second lengthy post bro?

"Nihilists may still adopt their own values throughout their lives. For instance, one may accidentally stumble upon wildflowers, a beautiful woman, or realize the improbability of their own existence. They then assign meaning to these things."
I did read your post but when you describe how a nihilist assigns meaning is not a defining characteristic of nihilism. You can just as easily say, "humanists may still adopt their own values throughout their lives...."
My point is that nihilism is not a consequence of not believing in gods but merely one option.
Just because I don't believe in absolute morality does not mean that I must accept that all actions are morally equivalent, i.e. murder is neither good or bad. Just because we create morality and not a deity does not make me a nihilist (at least I don't think so).
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Agreed, you can be an atheist... yet still have beliefs.

For example you can be an atheist and still believe in souls, spirits, eternal existence ect. etc.

I believe in nothing, i merely have ideas.. thoughts that hold claim to no truth what-so-ever, that puts me in the category of nihilism.

Atheism is merely the standpoint that you do not believe in god/gods.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Agreed, you can be an atheist... yet still have beliefs.

For example you can be an atheist and still believe in souls, spirits, eternal existence ect. etc.

I believe in nothing, i merely have ideas.. thoughts that hold claim to no truth what-so-ever, that puts me in the category of nihilism.

Atheism is merely the standpoint that you do not believe in god/gods.
Well, I don't know if atheists can believe in souls or spirits (at least I've never heard of such a thing), wouldn't that logically lead to a belief in a deity that created and/or governs them? I would think the beliefs that atheists would hold would be that of love, duty, morality, aesthetics, etc..
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know if atheists can believe in souls or spirits (at least I've never heard of such a thing), wouldn't that logically lead to a belief in a deity that created and/or governs them? I would think the beliefs that atheists would hold would be that of love, duty, morality, aesthetics, etc..
Oh man, you would be surprised! I know some atheists that dont believe in a god/gods/creator of existence: that like to think of things along the buddhist mindset, that life and existence are neverending, that we all have a soul, and when we die we come back in another form (maybe not on this planet, or even in this universe)

The mind can make up many MANY different situations without regard to a deity... it just takes imagination.

Contradictory as it may be... you try telling my buddies that lol. Its feels the same way when i talk to religious folk, they just dont listen and refuse to rationalize.
 
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