No More Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest

canndo

Well-Known Member
The deficit needs to be erased before we will ever start paying down the debt.
The presumption here is that America is somehow like a middle class family, where mom and pop sit around the breakfast table late at night trying to figure out how to manage their paychecks. The news is that government is nothing like mom and pop. Now we could liken it to a business but a government is not a business and the Federal Government has never been mandated to break even or turn a profit, it is mandated to guarantee rights of the individual and to promote or provide order. Austerity may work for the average family (although I could argue that it really does not) but it does not work in general practice. We do not reduce spending in order to thrive, we increase income. Now I will use a business as example even after I said that government is not a business.

In the sort term business may reduce spending as a way to cope with temporary fiscal troubles but any good business does not shy away from spending or borrowing if the point is to anticipate increased demand for its products (for whatever reason). No business (nor individual) pares it's way to sovlvency or sucess, it grows its way into it. A contracting company is never long a successful one. A contracting family is never very long solvent.

Of course expansion for its own sake, spending for its own sake is rarely good policy, especially in government but to be so reductionist as to claim that the cure for all of our ills is to spend less is a sure fire way to an ultimate crash.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I'm actually not in favor of major wealth redistribution, just enough for the poor to enjoy life somewhat while they sell their labor to people who own something.

Come on, don't be selfish.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
25 Percent of Americans pay 75 percent of the taxes the Gov Collects from Individuals. What percentage would you like them to pay 100?
When seen out of context this looks like a terrible thing, but the context is that 1 percent of the population control a huge percentage of all wealth in this country. I don't have the fitures handy but the "the rich pay most of the taxes" is a gimick and obscures the true situation in America.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I'm actually not in favor of major wealth redistribution, just enough for the poor to enjoy life somewhat while they sell their labor to people who own something.

Come on, don't be selfish.
I disagree, I don't want this country to depend upon the largess of the rich anymore than I want this country to depend upon the benevolence of our leaders. I want industrialists and the rich to be selfish, it is an engine that with the right goveners works quite well in this country. I trust the motivations inherent in our free enterprise system because I understand them and they are plain for all to see. the point is how this terrific power is controled and currently some are advocating no control at all. It is as though the company in my house, being well warmed by my fireplace is advocating that we simply pump gasoline onto the flames - after all, we are warm and comfortable, aren't we?
 

beenthere

New Member
When seen out of context this looks like a terrible thing, but the context is that 1 percent of the population control a huge percentage of all wealth in this country. I don't have the fitures handy but the "the rich pay most of the taxes" is a gimick and obscures the true situation in America.
The top 1% own 40 % of the nation’s wealth, they pay 37% of all income taxes, seems about right to me, how is this a gimmick?
No one is stopping you or any other American from becoming wealthy, and raising taxes on the wealthy will not lift your income up. Only hard work, sacrifice and risk will accomplish that, what are you waiting for?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The top 1% own 40 % of the nation’s wealth, they pay 37% of all income taxes, seems about right to me, how is this a gimmick?
No one is stopping you or any other American from becoming wealthy, and raising taxes on the wealthy will not lift your income up. Only hard work, sacrifice and risk will accomplish that, what are you waiting for?

Same old slogans, of course taxing the wealthiest will not raise my income, it shouldn't and I don't really care. But it will take some of the burden of our national debt from me. Now you seem to be laboring under the illusion that hard work, sacrifice and risk guarantees wealth. Far from it. I don't intend to be much more wealthy than I am precisely for that reason - sacrifice, I don't intend to sacrifice my time with loved ones for more wealth than I need. I know plenty of very hard working middle class folk, were it not for them, the wealthy would not have that wealth, but those hard working folk will never be rich.

And btw, the top 5 percent own nearly 70 percent of the wealth.
 

beenthere

New Member
Same old slogans, of course taxing the wealthiest will not raise my income, it shouldn't and I don't really care. But it will take some of the burden of our national debt from me. Now you seem to be laboring under the illusion that hard work, sacrifice and risk guarantees wealth. Far from it. I don't intend to be much more wealthy than I am precisely for that reason - sacrifice, I don't intend to sacrifice my time with loved ones for more wealth than I need. I know plenty of very hard working middle class folk, were it not for them, the wealthy would not have that wealth, but those hard working folk will never be rich.

And btw, the top 5 percent own nearly 70 percent of the wealth.
You fail to mention that if it were not for the wealthy, those hard working middle class you speak of would not be working.

And you are right, the top 5% own 68% of the wealth, but you originally asked about the 1%, who own 40% of the wealth.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
You fail to mention that if it were not for the wealthy, those hard working middle class you speak of would not be working.

And you are right, the top 5% own 68% of the wealth, but you originally asked about the 1%, who own 40% of the wealth.
so even after I tell you quite clearly that what creates jobs is demand and not the rich, you still opt to thank "the rich" for our jobs. Why is this such a persistant belief? Could it be that the rich perpetrate the notion that we should all be so thankful that they "give" us jobs? the truth is that there would be no rich, were it not for those working folk, quite the opposite of what you pretend.

Here is a story, my father was a dentist, he was, specificaly a prothsedontist, he found that there was an untapped demand for teeth, the poor needed to eat as well as the rich. Dentures typicaly sold for over 2000 dollars a pair, even back in the 70's. He sold his for 250 dollars. He offered interest free credit and refused the patronage of anyone he deemed rich enough to afford the 2k. He sent his three kids through college, he kept his family in a very nice home and afforded us a very nice existance. He did not get his job from the rich but from the poor. I as well do not get a paycheck from a rich person but those who do, most often trade their work for a paycheck, they are "given" nothing. We needn't thank the rich for our labor or our paychecks, they should thank us for our willingness to participate in their plans.
 

beenthere

New Member
so even after I tell you quite clearly that what creates jobs is demand and not the rich, you still opt to thank "the rich" for our jobs. Why is this such a persistant belief? Could it be that the rich perpetrate the notion that we should all be so thankful that they "give" us jobs? the truth is that there would be no rich, were it not for those working folk, quite the opposite of what you pretend.

Here is a story, my father was a dentist, he was, specificaly a prothsedontist, he found that there was an untapped demand for teeth, the poor needed to eat as well as the rich. Dentures typicaly sold for over 2000 dollars a pair, even back in the 70's. He sold his for 250 dollars. He offered interest free credit and refused the patronage of anyone he deemed rich enough to afford the 2k. He sent his three kids through college, he kept his family in a very nice home and afforded us a very nice existance. He did not get his job from the rich but from the poor. I as well do not get a paycheck from a rich person but those who do, most often trade their work for a paycheck, they are "given" nothing. We needn't thank the rich for our labor or our paychecks, they should thank us for our willingness to participate in their plans.
I've never claimed supply cannot exist and flourish without demand, and certainly haven't downplayed the latter.

Nice apologue BTW.
 

beenthere

New Member
do they give us jobs Beenthere?
Your question is futile, neither supply nor demand gives us jobs, but together they necessitate jobs.
No matter how hard you want demand to somehow be more of an important factor then supply, you'll fail, they cannot exist without each other.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You fail to mention that if it were not for the wealthy, those hard working middle class you speak of would not be working.
lulz.

if it weren't for those "job creators", we'd just sit around and let ourselves starve.

moar kewlade pls.
 

beenthere

New Member
lulz.

if it weren't for those "job creators", we'd just sit around and let ourselves starve.

moar kewlade pls.
Then explain to us all how you would go about this, with a little substance please, if you're capable !
I just love these lessons in buckology. LMAO
 
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